Rob and Jill

As the moderator who responded to Dodi's request to remove her thread, I agree with what she posted above about the tone of that thread. I have mentioned many times in my warnings that it is not necessarily 'what' you are saying - but 'how' you are saying it that is the problem.
From almost the very beginning the OP was 'ganged up' on by a number of established VJ members, who instead of being sensitive to her situation and remembering what it was like going through their own visa journeys, chose to 'play with her' like cats tossing around a mouse, and when challenged about their aggressive attitude said that the OP needed some 'tough love' and they were giving it to her. Well, they were definitely 'giving it to her' and there was nothing loving about it. When the topic came up in this thread, those same posters now say:
Well, it wasn't 'lighthearted fun for the OP and it did not come across as light-hearted fun to me. Seriously, VJ members are not playthings. They are real people with real feelings in real situations that are causing them stress and concern. Do they over-react sometimes? Absolutely. Do they panic sometimes? Certainly. Does that give anyone here the right to 'dump' on them for expressing honest concerns during an emotionally fraught situation? Absolutely not. Does it give anyone the right to dismiss their concerns or 'make light of' their fears because you don't like the way they post their question - or the question? Again, absolutely not. Just because you are no longer where they are does not give anyone the right to dismiss their concerns and to disrespect them as people.
There have been a number of threads like the above recently that have been removed and posters have complained - not just because they think that they are justified for their aggressive attitudes but because they are having fun at the expense of the original op - it is a 'game' for them. Yes, they may be providing information, but they are getting much more satisfaction from the 'dumping' on the individual involved - the 'gang' mentality - than they are from sharing their experience. They aren't interested in helping the OP - they want to be able to continue to ridicule, attack, disparage and jump on the OP, trying to gain 'personal' brownie points with other members at the OP's expense.
Threads like that need to be removed, especially when the person being ganged up on requests it. This is the type of attitude that is prevalent in Off Topic and we are trying to keep it out of the Immigration forums as it has the effect of chasing away and silencing the very people who most in need of advice.

Well, just past the "cyberbullying" term, she says: "You use you[r] knowledge of what you went through, and instead of just answering a question, you tell us we're obsessing over things or ridiculous, or that we need a smackdown, or whatever else. You claim we're going to start mass panic all over the forum by stating that we're calling the DOS too much (in YOUR opinion)."In respect for the reality that mere words in print can't convey TONE (as might vocal inflection, body language, eye contact, etc.), and in consideration that new people ARE facing the largely unknown and have their entire futures riding on their every action or inaction during this very uncertain immigration process when absolutely anything disastrous can happen, how is Dodi's viewpoint that unreasonable? I believe that she expressed the situation and her frame of reference very well, actually. The overwhelming majority of VJ members and UK forum-dwellers are decent, caring people -- but, without a physical presence, how can a message be distinguished as an attack versus kindly advice from an older brother or sister who has a supportive arm around our shoulder? Because of the drawbacks of print-only communication, we need to be doubly sure of how our words might be interpreted, because words MEAN things.
Here's an example of a stark difference in frames of reference. The chief reason that *I* remain on VJ is to remain vigilant for upcoming Ecuador interviewees and to warn them in the strongest possible terms of the devious, infernal tactics of the evil, ####### Guayaquil consulate, which has raped and screwed and chewed up and spat out far more couples than just the half-dozen or so who have reported same on VJ. Those petitioners' beliefs remain vehement, months and years afterwards, that the consular personnel need to be hauled back to the U.S. in chains. Very specific techniques and actions are necessary in order to procure a visa in Guayaquil. When these later interviewees follow the crucial instruction and manage to be granted the visa on the first interview, I expel my held breath in relief. However, if they post a positive embassy review with a score of 4 or 5 -- and perhaps even neglect to say how important it is that others follow the advice from those of us who were hosed and know the reality at that consulate! -- part of me want to throttle these interviewees, because their rankings and reviews (in a vacuum) create a false picture of that hellhole that could indeed harm others who follow. How justified or correct would I be to barbecue the reviewers/posters for this? Not very, I conclude, because THEY had a decent experience that THEY posted honestly about -- from THEIR frame of reference. I did my part by waving the hurricane flags, which they heeded and accordingly achieved their goal without experiencing much trauma. Out of respect for their opinions, all that I can do is to point to the bigger picture, in hopes that others will comprehend it. And that, to me, IS the goal of what VJ is all about -- showing respect and regard to other members who have conscious concerns, and alerting them to other concerns that they're perhaps unaware that they should have.
I believe that we'd be better off if posters on VJ bore in mind that we are here to HELP, and that it's completely counterproductive and objectively perilous to issue dismissive comments such as the robotic "you do not need a lawyer!" or the blase "you have nothing to worry about!" unless these statements are verifiably 100% TRUE or GUARANTEED. Just as in medicine, almost nothing in the immigration process is 100% guaranteed. (Lightning does strike: someone recently interviewed alone in Guayaquil and WAS granted a visa! It should not be counted on to happen again, however.)
I vividly remember being on "the other side" where Dodi is now. It was uncertain and not at all pleasant. I also distinctly remember who was gentle with me and who was not. Because there is a frame-of-reference difference between newbies and "grizzled veterans," we need to be gentle and supportive in almost every circumstance, to be aware that this immigration process is emotionally charged, and to recognize (before we hit "add reply") that the very nature of "words in print only" courts misinterpretation.

Ok, I've kept quiet until now, but since this thread was brought around based on a thread I started, and I'm the one being bad-mouthed here yet again, I feel the need to respond.
Sorry, Jill, I didn't know you didn't realize I had asked for the thread to be removed.
First off: I asked for the thread to be removed because it had gotten to such a state that it was no longer serving the intended purpose, which was to find out from someone who had recently been through this stage, how long it was taking to get an interview date, or even just forms logged in at the London Embassy.
Second: The term "tough love" doesn't exactly describe what was being doled out there. I believe the term being used by the self-labeled "legacy members" was a Smackdown. You guys took it upon yourselves to decide that I deserved a Smackdown as my "rite of passage" into VJ, and then proceeded to do so, en masse.
What you guys are calling "tough love" from people who have been through the process and are safely on the other side, looking back knowing how easy it went for you, is actually to most of us no better than cyberbullying. You use you knowledge of what you went through, and instead of just answering a question, you tell us we're obesessing over things or ridiculous, or that we need a smackdown, or whatever else. You claim we're going to start mass panic all over the forum by stating that we're calling the DOS too much (in YOUR opinion).
I've gotten PM's several times today from newer members who are afraid to post in the forum anymore because of what they've seen from you guys. They don't want to be attacked for asking questions. Is that what you want to turn this place into? If Noobs are beneath you, then don't bother reading or replying to their posts. Nobody is forcing you. However, if you do want to pass on your "expertise" from the viewpoint of someone who has been there, think about what you felt like when you were in our shoes. We're not asking to be molly-coddled or wrapped in cotton wool. (Got enough of my own there, thanks.) We are simply looking for information. That's kinda the point of this forum in the first place.
Yes, I agree with Darnell. (gasp!) There are too many people getting out of hand. There are too many people who feel entitled to run roughshod over the newer members, and that is counterproductive to VJ's purpose.
This response is probably going to go unheeded, because you all feel that you are above me, having been here so long, and that it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. That's fine. I'm not here just to defend myself. I'm here because as a newer member (I've only been here a couple of months) I want to know that all newer members feel free to post without threat of ridicule. I'm not asking for a pat on the back or hugs and flowers. I just want the bullying (cos that's what it is) to stop.
Thanks.

This is what gets me. Seemingly all of her threads, in various fora, extended for pages & pages of people pouring their hearts & brains out, and then all of a sudden, without warning or notice, the threads vanished permanently. By her request? If not, by whose action and in accordance with what rationale?I was struck by Happy Bunny's comment toward the end of one of the older linked threads (the 17-pager?) to the effect that "once posted, the post no longer belongs to the OP." To use shirorisu's posts as an objective example, YES we could weary of the frantic emotions therein, but YES others could also benefit from reading the exhaustive advice that well-meaning posters poured into those threads, most with much effort and thought. By deleting such entire threads or making them invisible, the respondents' work, time, thoughts, and beliefs are being disrespected -- all on the word & whim of one person (the OP).
I believe that threads should be locked but left visible unless they're blatantly offensive (TOS-offending level) or they advocate illegal practices with regard to the immigration process. Thoughts?

Not sure that's true, the last part of the thread I read went like:
Oh, please can't I join your clique and be cool like you?
Why yes, yes, you can, grasshopper...just be b!tchier.
At least, I assumed it was mocking, and sort of amusing in the same vein as barefoot-and-preggo-womens-chained-to-the-stove jokes are. I guess if I had started a thread and felt like it had gotten to the point where other members were coaching each other on how to respond more snarkily to me (or questions similar to mine) I would have thought hard about asserting my same OP right to ask that it be invized.

Hi ! welcome to the 'established krewe behavior'. It's deplorable, isn't it? One thing you (and anyone else) can do - is to report each post that is in violation of the TOS. With enough reports on the same people, supposedly these people get suspended for some time. With enough reports made, the admin has enough substantianted evidence to permanently suspend the accounts of the violaters.
Sure, it's a PITA to go through this, but in my mind, I'm happy to report such violations , each and every time.
It's sad, that flipside, yes? of a thread being locked down - but until this 'krewe' is gone, absent, you (and anyone else) should get pro-active on 'chasing them' till they are absolutely gone from VJ.
Happy Thursday ! (or something)

I moved over in May to south west Missouri. I don't think you could find many parts of the USA that could be more different culturally to the UK. It isn't too much smaller than the size of the UK, but it's population is less than 6 million, with well over half of that in just two cities - Kansas City and St Louis! I grew up in the urbanised Midlands of England, and then moved South where I lived between Brighton and London and was a frequent visitor to both. I loved the easy public transport and hustle and bustle of big cities.
I live in a city of around 70,000, but you need to travel more than an hour before reaching another place of the same size. But I find myself enjoying the differences a lot. It's interesting having to find my feet in such a different place. I've felt trapped a couple of times, but then some friends took me over to another, slightly larger city about an hour away and that helped with my cabin fever. I'm firmly a fan of temperate climates so England used to suit me to a tee. However, Missouri just has plain extreme weather. Storms the likes of which I've never seen, with the most incredible lightening and noisiest thunder. And tornadoes. I get amused by the weekly testing of the tornado sirens. Wasn't quite as amused when they actually went off one night during a large thunder storm, but nothing happened and I'm used to the idea of them now - never even thought about them in the UK unless I watched an 'extreme weather' program on TV! Hah! Also, yesterday was 105 with 98% humidity. Blech!!! And yet, even though it could hardly be more different, (and for the worse for my preferences) I even find myself starting to enjoy it now that I've accepted I will just sweat, no matter what. Plus they do air conditioning great over here!
Foodwise I love American food so am thoroughly enjoying that! Plus my wife likes the English food that she tried when visiting me over there and we usually find ways to make those sorts of dishes. Plus there is a shop that imports a few English necessities near us - she doesn't go without Ready Brek, and I get to have my Bisto gravy and salad cream! I can't stand the shop bread here, it's too sweet, but then we make our own and I'm actually becoming quite good at that! I can't work so I bake...
I'm a christian so I go to church and have easily made friends there, so I have a slowly growing social circle which has helped the transition immensely. However, I think that I would be able to make friends over here quite easily without that factor - my accent begins conversations every time I go out to the shops or walk around a bit. One thing I love about this place is how open and friendly most people are. Sometimes my whole day gets brightened by a cheerful encounter at Aldi or Target. Oh, and Aldi does an orange cheddar which isn't half bad! I was worried I'd miss out on decent cheese since we'd failed to find a cheap enough cheddar on my previous visits. I can't do without the stuff, it's my lifes blood!
I've had a couple bouts of homesickness, mainly missing family and friends or the gorgeous south downs, but it is manageable. Plus family and friends here are understanding and like to help me out and make me feel more at home here, but without trying to disqualify that which I have left behind. Plus I find that if I accept the pain of not having close ones around me, but also accept that I have been blessed with new close ones around me and new things to enjoy, it really helps. Pain is just a part of the process, and not even a horrible one at times. It can be nice to become tearfully sentimental with people who aren't a part of it - I dunno, maybe thats just me. But I enjoy having fond memories of the UK, and being able to share them with people who haven't experienced it.
Anyway, I just wanted to write this to let people who haven't made the jump yet that it's something that is very positive if you jump with an open and receptive mind. I can't stay with all my english preferences in a new country, I can just find USA preferences and enjoy memories or the occasional treat of English preferences I think I also needed to write this for myself since currently I am in a homesick phase
Enjoy VJers!

Well, no. You just said it isn't true, so have a laugh and move on.
Also I dunno, I might be way out of line here, but pulling up timelines and then making snarky comments about them may not be the way to change any... not... nice opinions about yourself. Just a thought.
So hey everyone, who thinks we need a thread called "I'm waiting for the consulate to get a move on and boy am I testy!" because there's five or six of us.

+1
I have to agree with the spirit of the above post. I'm not really sure of what good can come from a complaint topic about your fiancee/spouse topic other than to stir the pot of discontent which may some day lead to the disolution of the relationship. Or is that misery loves company? If people are that miserable with their significant other, they may need to re-evaluate the relationship altogether.

Small rant attached...
There seems to be a certain amount of trolling going on involving the UK forums to the point where nearly every thread, including threads that ARE viable and helpful to others are being shut down because of a few members who consistently harass people.
So, I have a few questions...
Why are these threads being removed instead of warnings going out to the violators of the thread?
Why is an entire thread full of potentially GOOD information being wisked away to lala land because of few people who are allowed to run rampant on that forum instead of the "offenders" being "punished"?
Why are the threads completely gone instead of just removing the offending posts and removing non-relevant information? Is there not a rule in place that keeps people from posting the same harassing junk if their posts are removed?
What makes a thread get locked versus removed?
I realize the moderators on these forums do this work on a volunteer basis, and obviously they cannot be everywhere at once, but for crying out loud, this is getting absolutely out of hand and beyond absurd. EVERYONE should not be punished by losing information because a few people are being trolls...

Empress and the others,
I don't think anyone completely disregards what anyone who has been through this process has to say. It is inevitable that in a group of large diversity not everyone is going to get along 24/7 and I don't think anyone reasonably expects it to. You are 100% correct in that line of thought! I don't think the frustration here is that "VJ is not what it used to be". I think the complaint is that a new person cannot walk into the forums and ask something simple, share their experiences with the people who ARE CURRENTLY going through a situation, without randomly being attacked.
I'll give you an example. I'm certainly no longer upset about this, but it was upsetting at the time. When I joined this site, I read and researched for over a month before I ever asked a question. Not a single question. The first question I asked was VERY rudely answered and I was told to go do my research. I read everything I could find before I asked the question and not once in my month or more of research did I find that particular answer. A moderator no less, was rude, unthoughtful and made an assumption that I didn't do ANY research before I asked a question.
While I realize that the "norm" around here is for someone to make an account, entirely skip the suggested reading section, and demand an answer immediately, that was not what I did, yet I was treated with the same disdain as someone who does do the aforementioned things. Can you look back to those years ago and imagine the stinging rejection that gave to someone, could have been given to you? Can you imagine the feelings of stupidity and doubt that could foster in someone who is in a fragile and confusing state already? I pretty much gave that mod the mental F-you and continued on. Do you know what happened? Someone else came along and politely pointed me in the direction I needed.
It takes the same amount of time to click the "Guides" button at the top, copy the link, and say to someone "Hey, here is a link that might help!" as it does to tell someone that they're stupid, lazy, and to do their research. (For clarity, I am not saying YOU do that!) I can give another example. I was upset about a process I didn't realize had the potential to be as time consuming as it is. Maven INSTANTLY was comforting about it and offered a way to direct and channel my mind elsewhere. She took a few seconds out of her day to use her knowledge to not only comfort, but to offer a solution to redirect the focus. It took just as much time to be compassionate as it could have taken for her to be hateful.
That certainly doesn't mean that I or any other member feels that someone should hand hold, dance through daisies, and fill out the forms for us. What it does mean is that by having the experience of the FULL Visa Journey does give the "Legacy" members an ability to give a unique perspective. However, a negative perspective as a first impression is going to have a more degrading effect on those without thick skin. It is going to cause some people to become defensive, and it is going to cause arguments.
It takes two hands to push someone down and only one to lift them up.
I'll even stop and reach out this far. Perhaps the word "Troll" is not the best word to have been used, although, by definition of the word it does apply to numerous situations. I'll stop, back up, and say, if anyone was offended by my use of that word, I sincerely apologize for it. I'll even further say from this point on, every logistical point I wanted made has been made, and that in my heart I know there are others who see this issue too. The fact that it is not just a select few "noobs" which by the way is just as insulting as calling someone a troll, who see that where there could be compassion, disdain is taking over. I'll continue to hope that perhaps some of the words is THIS post will make others stop and think for a millisecond about what they SHOULD say versus what they CAN say.

Small rant attached...
There seems to be a certain amount of trolling going on involving the UK forums to the point where nearly every thread, including threads that ARE viable and helpful to others are being shut down because of a few members who consistently harass people.
So, I have a few questions...
Why are these threads being removed instead of warnings going out to the violators of the thread?
Why is an entire thread full of potentially GOOD information being wisked away to lala land because of few people who are allowed to run rampant on that forum instead of the "offenders" being "punished"?
Why are the threads completely gone instead of just removing the offending posts and removing non-relevant information? Is there not a rule in place that keeps people from posting the same harassing junk if their posts are removed?
What makes a thread get locked versus removed?
I realize the moderators on these forums do this work on a volunteer basis, and obviously they cannot be everywhere at once, but for crying out loud, this is getting absolutely out of hand and beyond absurd. EVERYONE should not be punished by losing information because a few people are being trolls...

I absolutely do not have the "no borders" mentality. I have the FOLLOW THE LAW mentality. If someone wants to move here legally, and they do it legally, and walk the steps LEGALLY like most of us here are doing, then I am ALL FOR people living transcontinental lives.
However, I am not for ANY race of people moving into the USA illegally according to the current laws of the US. I am not for my tax money going to shovel free cheese into the mouths of those who work for a pittance illegally, or do not work at all. I am NOT for those people potentially getting benefits from the states that LEGAL citizens don't get. Last, but not least, I am 100% completely against criminals crossing our borders from ANY location unchecked, unscathed, and unrestricted.
Immigration laws are not in place to keep people from living the lives they want to live. They are in place to PROTECT ALL aspects of our country.
Furthermore, I am tired and frustrated with people saying this is all about Mexico. It's NOT all about Mexico. I think if you went to varying parts of the country you would find that those places all have different types of immigration issues. People here are acting like the immigration laws are going to cause people to be treated like the Irish who immigrated here in the 1900's. So pay attention:
PEOPLE ARE ONLY GOING TO BE ASKED TO PROVE THEIR STATUS IF THE HAVE ALREADY BROKEN A LAW.
THIS IS NO DIFFERENT THAN A POLICE OFFICER ASKING FOR YOUR ID IF HE PULLS YOU OVER CURRENTLY.
To answer the questions about what a police officer can see when they pull you over:
Your Name
Address
Make/model of your car
Any previous criminal activity related to the person who REGISTERED the car.
This information comes off of the license plate on the car. Any other personal information about you, comes from your drivers license.

Well, when I see someone with a fiance/husband from a country other than the U.K. giving advice about the U.K. embassy on the U.K board, and it's not 100% correct, it annoys me!
Just because it SAYS you canm attend the interview does not mean the border guards will let you in!

Why don't they talk about the LEGAL immigrants?
Why would they? It's not BIG news to them. It's not "worthy" of a news story because there are not protests going on about immigration in general, just ILLEGAL immigration.
I never really thought about immigration, legal or illegal, until I started this process. I can assure you of this. If Obama lets all of the illegal aliens in this country stay without fining them or something, I swear on every breath I have left in my body, I am going to send the White House a bill for the immigration pays WE had to pay.
Legal immigration is punished while illegal immigration is rewarded. I have to tell you, it even annoys me here to see people advise others "Oh it doesn't matter if you got married and overstayed, just file your AOS."
It SHOULD matter. That is just as illegal as someone walking across a border.
Oh, shutting up now before I go off for hours.

For those of you who are advising her to "call 911", please do not give out this advice in THIS situation.
911 is an EMERGENCY number for IMMEDIATE danger. As bad as this situation is for our original poster, this is NOT an IMMEDIATE DANGER situation because she has already LEFT the abuse.
To the original poster:
Go to your local police department and file a police report. Ask them what steps you should take from there, as they have contacts with local shelters and organizations who can help you.

1. You need to let the supervisor in that area know that she treated you that way. Imagine how many people have let it go and not reported her for that behavior.
2. You should go back in and show them the paperwork to find out if you misunderstood something or if you are indeed correct on this.
3. Potential law suits are stacking up left and right with these new laws...

1. You need to let the supervisor in that area know that she treated you that way. Imagine how many people have let it go and not reported her for that behavior.
2. You should go back in and show them the paperwork to find out if you misunderstood something or if you are indeed correct on this.
3. Potential law suits are stacking up left and right with these new laws...

Yeah ours was supposed to be August 21 and we've had a lot of problems getting things wrapped up on the UK side of it, so it looks like we're going to have to push it back til October...I feel your pain.

Going from not knowing a favorite color or food to a life long hidden abortion is a pretty big leap...Let me give you an example as to why the past SHOULD be shared:
I was talking on Skype with my fiance and 2-3 of our mutual friends. They were teasing and poke fun at me all night, which we all do to each other on a regular basis. So, another friend gets added to the conference call and simply says "What's up?"
I VERY jokingly say in a whiney voice "These guys are all abusing me tonight."
My fiance took great offense to it because A LONG TIME AGO a girlfriend of his used to say that kind of stuff to him all the time in order to guilt him into doing what SHE wanted. Anything SHE didn't want was "abuse" in her mind.
Up until that point, he wouldn't tell me about his ex's because "the past was the past". But when he became upset by that small phrase and I didn't know why, he learned to open up and tell about the past.
Now, to answer your example. If you had an abortion years and years ago and didn't tell your husband. I would sure hate to be you when you're both sitting at the OBGYN trying to figure out why you can't become pregnant for the OBGYN to randomly say "well, that abortion you had years ago damaged :insert random female reproductive organs here: and now you can't have children. What a nice way for a husband to find something like THAT out. This is just my opinion on that of course, but I believe honesty is the best policy.

You know, I always find this argument hilarious. I'll tell you why. I am a smoker. I go out of my way to be considerate for the people around me who are non-smokers. I know not everyone is this way, but I am.
I am also, a 4.5 on a scale of 1 to 5 allergic to PERFUME. I get instant migraines, will vomit, have asthma attacks and the list goes on depending on the type of perfume some overly drenched woman feels she HAS to wear in PUBLIC. I am subjected to this at resturants, doctors office, my place of employment, (the list goes on)and no matter HOW nice you are when asking to move away from these people, or how politely you ask them not to wear X brand around you, they are ALWAYS rude about it and ALWAYS inform me it's their "right" to wear perfume regardless of the health effects it causes me.
How is this different?
It's not. You can use the argument that smoking effects everyone and perfume doesn't...but then not all people exposed to 2nd hand smoke get cancer either. Every single time I have to sit there and suffer through some woman wearing a god awful amount of perfume or god awful scent of perfume, I want nothing more than to light a cigarette and blow a big puff of smoke in her face.

It's not fraud and it's not really your business either. Your sister is certainly enough of an adult to do what she wants. They are not doing anything illegal however morally questionable you may find it.

Melissa, a lot of us understand. We're going through the same things, and we have the opportunity to learn from each other. This is a stressful time for those of us who are going through these things, and it doesn't help being thousands of miles apart while it's happening either. I know what it's like. I've learned a lot from some of the people here who have been there before me. I've also learned very little from the jerks on these forums, and I tend to ignore them.
However, with that being said your fiance is not making any of this easier on YOU. My fiance doesn't "suffer fools" either, yet he would never in a million years come on THIS SITE, and because he didn't like the blunt answer he was given accuse someone of having/being a mail-order bride. Your fiance's way of "doing what is right" for the two of you is to insult every single person here on a regular basis. How can that be good for the two of you and your reputation here? It's biting the hand that quite literally is feeding you information. It's irritating to the people who should be a support network for the both of you, and more to you because you're the one putting in 85% of the effort at the moment.
Some people on this site are rude, some are just blunt. Unfortunately, the internet leaves far too much room for interpretation when it comes to conversational intent. However, certain mail order bride comments, don't really leave much room for interpretation and those are the kinds of comments that are causing the both of you strife on these forums. Example of the way to "defend" a little better:
Melissa makes a comment
Someone responds in a snarky manner
Julian jumps in and throws whatever insult he feels will best cut them down
Flame war begins
Instead of the above:
Melissa makes a comment
Someone responds in a snarky manner
Melissa and Julian both ignore said snarky comment and thank the people who have actually said or done something useful to help.
Everyone on VJ is happier.

Julian:
Notice, not once during any of these threads have I personally attacked you or your fiance. However, I must tell you I am quite fed up with your constant need to act like every American is some back woods redneck with no education, common sense, or class.
You might be feeling a bit attacked around here. Whether it is justified or not is between you and Melissa. However, your reaction to the "attacks" are what is making you lose face in my world.
Quite frankly, you're coming across as an elitist horses a$$ in nearly everything you say here. Perhaps you should consider taking your snobby and prejudicial comments and keeping them to yourself. Making those kind of comments in general are no different to me than calling a Black person the N word, or any kind of racial or deragatory slur. If it is said in a negative fashion with a malicious intent, it's prejudiced.
Furthermore, as someone who has extensively studied mental abuse from men towards women, I can say many of the comments you have made towards Melissa reek of an abusive personality on your part. On more than one occassion I have seen your need to put her down or affirmate your own "superiority" to her. While I have never met either of you in person, your actions here show me you both need therapy. You to help with a severe superiority complex, and Melissa to work through her self esteem issues.
I won't say anything else about this because quite frankly it's not my business. However, I do ask that you have some common decency to turn the other cheek when some of the people here are attacking you on a personal level, and save the comments about your incorrect perceptions of Americans in general for another venue.

Julian:
Notice, not once during any of these threads have I personally attacked you or your fiance. However, I must tell you I am quite fed up with your constant need to act like every American is some back woods redneck with no education, common sense, or class.
You might be feeling a bit attacked around here. Whether it is justified or not is between you and Melissa. However, your reaction to the "attacks" are what is making you lose face in my world.
Quite frankly, you're coming across as an elitist horses a$$ in nearly everything you say here. Perhaps you should consider taking your snobby and prejudicial comments and keeping them to yourself. Making those kind of comments in general are no different to me than calling a Black person the N word, or any kind of racial or deragatory slur. If it is said in a negative fashion with a malicious intent, it's prejudiced.
Furthermore, as someone who has extensively studied mental abuse from men towards women, I can say many of the comments you have made towards Melissa reek of an abusive personality on your part. On more than one occassion I have seen your need to put her down or affirmate your own "superiority" to her. While I have never met either of you in person, your actions here show me you both need therapy. You to help with a severe superiority complex, and Melissa to work through her self esteem issues.
I won't say anything else about this because quite frankly it's not my business. However, I do ask that you have some common decency to turn the other cheek when some of the people here are attacking you on a personal level, and save the comments about your incorrect perceptions of Americans in general for another venue.