B1B2 denied for 214(b), how do you overcome this?

[plasticassius 1]

Hello, I'm a USC living in Prague with my Czech wife and our kids aged 12 and 17. She tried to get a B1B2 visa in December of 2023 and was denied by 214(b). I can't quite figure out how to get around this problem.

 

Firstly, we do indeed want her to get a tourist visa even though a K3 shouldn't be a problem, because we don't plan to move any time soon. We've been together since around 2003, other than a few trips (6 to the US), we've spent the time living in Czechia where both of our children (12 and 17) were born and go to school. Her parents and brother also live nearby, and she has a job and is enrolled in continuing education.

 

My wife has had 10 year B1B2 visas in the past, and getting them had never a problem. Her last renewal was in 2008, after that, ESTAS were available in Czechia and were popularly known as "visa waivers." Without any real research, we assumed they worked the same as visas and went on a trip to the US in 2019, which went fine. In 2021, COVID was tailing off and it was possible to travel overseas again. Consulates were closed, so she got another ESTA and we went back, but this time for four months rather than the two months we'd gone each time before.

 

As we found out, this was an overstay for the ESTA, so another is no longer an option. However, I believe she should still be able to get a tourist visa. After this, her first attempt to get a B1B2 was June 2022, which was denied for 214(b). So, I did some research and found out that she needed to prove strong ties to Czechia, and we put together a package of documents detailing her parent's, brother's and our real estate here, the children's schools, and her job. None of that mattered, though because the consul didn't look at it,

 

I wasn't allowed at the interview, so I don't know in detail what was said, but one question my wife told me about was how she was able to travel when flying to the US was only allowed for USCs. The correct answer is that spouses of USCs were also allowed, although she didn't remember that at the time of the interview. Another question was who she knows in the US, and the correct answer was a number of people we'd met on prior trips. Unfortunately she replied no one, to which the consul said, but what about your husband's relatives? We had met my brother on one trip, but he's hardly the reason we travel there.

 

So, I have several thoughts: How do you convey strong ties to your home country when your supporting documentation doesn't get looked at? Is "proof" of strong ties even possible? Is it possible to add information to the DS-160 since the documents you bring don't get looked at? Is a 214(b) denial a kind of a catchall when the real reason lies elsewhere?

 

Thanks in advance for your help.
 

[millefleur 5,035]

214(b) is for immigrant intent, basically she didn't overcome that. The previous ESTA overstay is a bad look for her case unfortunately. Since she is married to a USC, she can easily adjust status and stay in the US.

 

2 hours ago, plasticassius said:

we put together a package of documents detailing her parent's, brother's and our real estate here, the children's schools, and her job. None of that mattered, though because the consul didn't look at it

Very common. They are not required to consider or look at documents you bring to make their decision.

 

2 hours ago, plasticassius said:

one question my wife told me about was how she was able to travel when flying to the US was only allowed for USCs. The correct answer is that spouses of USCs were also allowed, although she didn't remember that at the time of the interview.

Hm, it's an odd question as you'd think the embassy staff know that but who knows. What did she give as an answer? Maybe something she said sounded suspicious immigrant intent-wise, combined with the other stuff stacked against her (USC spouse, overstay etc.)

 

2 hours ago, plasticassius said:

Another question was who she knows in the US, and the correct answer was a number of people we'd met on prior trips. Unfortunately she replied no one, to which the consul said, but what about your husband's relatives? We had met my brother on one trip, but he's hardly the reason we travel there.

That's not good that she said "No one" especially given the context of having family in the US. It sounds like she was nervous but the CO probably just marked that down as another suspicious response.

 

Just in the future, if they ask a question like that, it's not about "reason for travel" but just being upfront about ties to the US. Her having family in the US is a tie, and saying "no one" could appear like she was trying to downplay it, which could be seen as suspicious. Unfortunately this situation overall doesn't look good. She can wait a year and apply again and see. Not much else she can do. 

[Boiler 43,438]

3 hours ago, plasticassius said:

Hello, I'm a USC living in Prague with my Czech wife and our kids aged 12 and 17. She tried to get a B1B2 visa in December of 2023 and was denied by 214(b). I can't quite figure out how to get around this problem.

 

Firstly, we do indeed want her to get a tourist visa even though a K3 shouldn't be a problem, because we don't plan to move any time soon. We've been together since around 2003, other than a few trips (6 to the US), we've spent the time living in Czechia where both of our children (12 and 17) were born and go to school. Her parents and brother also live nearby, and she has a job and is enrolled in continuing education.

 

My wife has had 10 year B1B2 visas in the past, and getting them had never a problem. Her last renewal was in 2008, after that, ESTAS were available in Czechia and were popularly known as "visa waivers." Without any real research, we assumed they worked the same as visas and went on a trip to the US in 2019, which went fine. In 2021, COVID was tailing off and it was possible to travel overseas again. Consulates were closed, so she got another ESTA and we went back, but this time for four months rather than the two months we'd gone each time before.

 

As we found out, this was an overstay for the ESTA, so another is no longer an option. However, I believe she should still be able to get a tourist visa. After this, her first attempt to get a B1B2 was June 2022, which was denied for 214(b) So, I did some research and found out that she needed to prove strong ties to Czechia, and we put together a package of documents detailing her parent's, broth.er's and our real estate here, the children's schools, and her job. None of that mattered, though because the consul didn't look at it,

 

I wasn't allowed at the interview, so I don't know in detail what was said, but one question my wife told me about was how she was able to travel when flying to the US was only allowed for USCs. The correct answer is that spouses of USCs were also allowed, although she didn't remember that at the time of the interview. Another question was who she knows in the US, and the correct answer was a number of people we'd met on prior trips. Unfortunately she replied no one, to which the consul said, but what about your husband's relatives? We had met my brother on one trip, but he's hardly the reason we travel there.

 

So, I have several thoughts: How do you convey strong ties to your home country when your supporting documentation doesn't get looked at? Is "proof" of strong ties even possible? Is it possible to add information to the DS-160 since the documents you bring don't get looked at? Is a 214(b) denial a kind of a catchall when the real reason lies elsewhere?

 

Thanks in advance for your help.
 

 

It  can be difficult for someone from a VWP Country to get a B.

 

In this case someone who abused the VWP privilege is going to find it very difficult to get a B.

 

Less than 10 K3's are issued per year btw

 

I doubt anything changed since her prior refusal and she  is accumulating a bad US record.

 

 

[SalishSea 16,774]

You should just petition her.  I don't see her getting a B visa after overstaying the ESTA.

[plasticassius 1]

10 hours ago, millefleur said:

214(b) is for immigrant intent, basically she didn't overcome that. The previous ESTA overstay is a bad look for her case unfortunately. Since she is married to a USC, she can easily adjust status and stay in the US.

I would think that the totality of the case looks good. There's one mistake in around 10 trips over more than 30 years. If they approached driver's licenses like this, there wouldn't be many drivers. Perhaps, that's the point.

 

BTW, denying status adjustments would be possible too, no?

10 hours ago, millefleur said:

Very common. They are not required to consider or look at documents you bring to make their decision.

Perhaps it's not supposed to make sense, but what I don't get is how can you overcome immigrant intent? They didn't look at documents, and didn't allow for making a case verbally.

[plasticassius 1]

8 hours ago, Boiler said:

 

It  can be difficult for someone from a VWP Country to get a B.

The denial rate here is 8.5%, so many people do get them. I also know quite a few people with them.

 

8 hours ago, Boiler said:

Less than 10 K3's are issued per year btw

Perhaps I got lost in the alphabet soup. I meant get a visa for someone married to a USC.

8 hours ago, Boiler said:

I doubt anything changed since her prior refusal and she  is accumulating a bad US record.

AFAIK, to get a B, you must apply even if previously denied. 

[Boiler 43,438]

I have never come across denial rates for those who have previously overstayed.

 

I did not think they were published.

[plasticassius 1]

5 hours ago, SalishSea said:

You should just petition her.  I don't see her getting a B visa after overstaying the ESTA.

Perhaps, but getting her a GC would mean a lot of financial reorganization like dealing with bank accounts and tax returns in addition to all of the visa paperwork. It hardly seems worthwhile for a vist to the US every 2 or 3 years when we can just go somewhere else.

[plasticassius 1]

7 minutes ago, Boiler said:

I have never come across denial rates for those who have previously overstayed.

 

I did not think they were published.

This is what I was quoting: https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/Non-Immigrant-Statistics/RefusalRates/FY22.pdf

 

8.5% is the denial rate for Czechia, a VWP country. It's not broken out by those who previously overstayed.

[Boiler 43,438]

1 minute ago, plasticassius said:

This is what I was quoting: https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/Non-Immigrant-Statistics/RefusalRates/FY22.pdf

 

8.5% is the denial rate for Czechia, a VWP country. It's not broken out by those who previously overstayed.

 

I am very well aware of those figures but they are not relevant to this situation.

[plasticassius 1]

7 minutes ago, Boiler said:

I am very well aware of those figures but they are not relevant to this situation.

Ok, so the point is tangential. I was only replying to your comment. I didn't mean to be irritating. Have a good one.

[Boiler 43,438]

It was very silly to overstay the VWP, so the question is with all these issues will she ever get a visitor visa.

 

The only think I can think of is time, give it a few years and try again?

[carmel34 3,531]

1 hour ago, plasticassius said:

Perhaps I got lost in the alphabet soup. I meant get a visa for someone married to a USC.

There are only two options:  IR-1, spousal visa, which is for immigrating to the USA to live permanently with you, and B-2 tourist visa, for temporary visits for which she was denied.  ESTA is gone forever because of the overstay which is a permanent stain on her record, and an indication of high immigrant intent.  As a US citizen, you are required to file federal income taxes in the US with the IRS regardless of where you live.

[appleblossom 1,307]

4 hours ago, plasticassius said:

I would think that the totality of the case looks good. There's one mistake in around 10 trips over more than 30 years.

 

I think you're underestimating how big a mistake that was though. She is very unlikely to be granted a visa now having shown she ignored immigration laws previously, particularly with a USC spouse. 

 

As said above, leave it for a few years then try again, you never know. 

 

Good luck.

[millefleur 5,035]

4 hours ago, plasticassius said:

Perhaps it's not supposed to make sense, but what I don't get is how can you overcome immigrant intent? They didn't look at documents, and didn't allow for making a case verbally.

Waiting for a good long while and applying again is really all you can do. With visitor visas, there's no other recourse. You can't appeal the decision in any way, frustrating as it is.

 

There is one other way to show no immigrant intent, and that is to file for the spousal visa and then have her relinquish the green card showing she truly has no intention to live in the US.