Study says depression not caused by chemical imbalance, raising questions about antidepressants

[Dashinka 23,402]

Interesting study.  Full disclosure, never taken an anti-depressant and never plan to.

 

Study says depression not caused by chemical imbalance, raising questions about antidepressants

 

The researchers found “no support for the hypothesis that depression is caused by lowered serotonin activity or concentrations.”

 

They found stronger evidence that stressful life events can lead to depression.

 

The question is, do antidepressants help, and if so, how? If not, could they be doing harm?

 

Experts are divided and the study has drawn some pushback.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/study-says-depression-not-caused-by-chemical-imbalance-raising-questions-about-antidepressants/ar-AAZQ0uq

[beloved_dingo 1,942]

I have no doubt that we don't fully grasp how and why depression occurs, and how and why certain medications seem to alleviate symptoms. However, the "stressful life events can lead to depression" statement doesn't sit right with me. There's a difference between chronic depression and episodes of acute depression. Sure, the death of a loved one, divorce, losing your job, etc. could likely lead to a period of acute depression. But those with chronic depression can and do experience debilitating depression even when life is normal or otherwise going well. 

 

This study is a study of other studies (say that 3 times fast), so we'd have to look at the veracity of every single study they included to reach their conclusion to determine if these findings are of note. I don't have the attention span or know-how to do that, but I would like to see a new, independent study involving analyzing and comparing serotonin levels in those with depression, those without, those on SSRIs/other medications, and those on placebos. You'd also have to have a large number of participants to make any meaningful conclusion, I would think. 

 

I believe there is significant evidence that medication + therapy is one of the most effective ways to treat a variety of mental health issues, including depression. 

 

I do think many medications are overprescribed though. 

[Dashinka 23,402]

8 minutes ago, beloved_dingo said:

I have no doubt that we don't fully grasp how and why depression occurs, and how and why certain medications seem to alleviate symptoms. However, the "stressful life events can lead to depression" statement doesn't sit right with me. There's a difference between chronic depression and episodes of acute depression. Sure, the death of a loved one, divorce, losing your job, etc. could likely lead to a period of acute depression. But those with chronic depression can and do experience debilitating depression even when life is normal or otherwise going well. 

 

This study is a study of other studies (say that 3 times fast), so we'd have to look at the veracity of every single study they included to reach their conclusion to determine if these findings are of note. I don't have the attention span or know-how to do that, but I would like to see a new, independent study involving analyzing and comparing serotonin levels in those with depression, those without, those on SSRIs/other medications, and those on placebos. You'd also have to have a large number of participants to make any meaningful conclusion, I would think. 

 

I believe there is significant evidence that medication + therapy is one of the most effective ways to treat a variety of mental health issues, including depression. 

 

I do think many medications are overprescribed though. 

Medication and therapy may be effective, but I am not sure I totally agree on the statement that many medications are not overprescribed.  We have certainly been learning about the over use of opioids, I think psych meds, may be used a little too loosely as well. 

[beloved_dingo 1,942]

24 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

Medication and therapy may be effective, but I am not sure I totally agree on the statement that many medications are not overprescribed.  We have certainly been learning about the over use of opioids, I think psych meds, may be used a little too loosely as well. 

I said many meds ARE overprescribed. 

[yuna628 9,547]

1 hour ago, Dashinka said:

Medication and therapy may be effective, but I am not sure I totally agree on the statement that many medications are not overprescribed.  We have certainly been learning about the over use of opioids, I think psych meds, may be used a little too loosely as well. 

Why do you think that "psych meds" are over-prescribed? Why do you think that something that doesn't work for you, or you have no interest in taking, wouldn't help someone else? I'd further point out that there are other common uses for antidepressants rather than mental health issues.

 

I mean it could be said that any drug is over-prescribed. The top drugs in the USA, are typically statins, blood pressure medications, and metformin. Metformin is frequently even given to those without active diabetes at all - but pre-diabetics and for hormone reasons. All of these issues could be changed or controlled with lifestyle issues without the need of medication - but yet society has accepted them as wanted and needed in their lives, without being considered that the pill they are taking is just a crutch.

 

It is no doubt that opioid overuse is a problem. However, in our efforts to 'crack down', we have created a variety of bureaucracies and problems in our society, where individuals are intentionally left in chronic pain or with chronic disease or injuries, and those that are truly suffering cannot have access to relief. 

 

I think there are many people that actually need significant therapy and would greatly benefit it from it if they'd stop considering it as a 'weakness'. They might not require medication for their malady, but they certainly need something in their lives.

Edited July 22, 2022 by yuna628

[Dashinka 23,402]

4 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Why do you think that "psych meds" are over-prescribed? Why do you think that something that doesn't work for you, or you have no interest in taking, wouldn't help someone else? I'd further point out that there are other common uses for antidepressants rather than mental health issues.

 

I mean it could be said that any drug is over-prescribed. The top drugs in the USA, are typically statins, blood pressure medications, and metformin. Metformin is frequently even given to those without active diabetes at all - but pre-diabetics and for hormone reasons. All of these issues could be changed or controlled with lifestyle issues without the need of medication - but yet society has accepted them as wanted and needed in their lives, without being considered that the pill they are taking is just a crutch.

 

It is no doubt that opioid overuse is a problem. However, in our efforts to 'crack down', we have created a variety of bureaucracies and problems in our society, where individuals are intentionally left in chronic pain or with chronic disease or injuries, and those that are truly suffering cannot have access to relief. 

 

I think there are many people that actually need significant therapy and would greatly benefit it from it if they'd stop considering it as a 'weakness'. They might not require medication for their malady, but they certainly need something in their lives.

From what I am seeing, many physicians rely on pharmaceuticals way more than needed.  How many kids that are just being kids are put on meds for hyperactivity?  How many psych drugs are over used?  Is there a reason for pharmaceuticals, sure, but our society, including many in the medical and mental health professions are becoming lazy with the doling out of meds. 

 

https://www.madinamerica.com/2021/12/overuse-psychiatric-drugs-worsening-public-mental-health-doctor-argues/ 

[Ban Hammer 12,900]

2 hours ago, beloved_dingo said:

I have no doubt that we don't fully grasp how and why depression occurs,

 

as a mod, it starts when i open up vj and see the active reports number in double digits and upon opening another tab, the active reports have doubled..........

[Dashinka 23,402]

2 hours ago, beloved_dingo said:

I said many meds ARE overprescribed. 

Yes you did, so I guess we are in agreement.  

[Dashinka 23,402]

41 minutes ago, Ban Hammer said:

aa a mod, it starts when i open up vj and see the active reports number in double digits and upon opening another tab, the active reports have doubled..........

Isn't that why you carry the hammer?

[Ban Hammer 12,900]

55 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

Isn't that why you carry the hammer?

that could be why some are permanently missing in cehst......

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

6 hours ago, Ban Hammer said:

that could be why some are permanently missing in cehst......

CHEST.  NB said get it right, newb...

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

9 hours ago, yuna628 said:

Why do you think that "psych meds" are over-prescribed?

 

I think there are many people that actually need significant therapy and would greatly benefit it from it if they'd stop considering it as a 'weakness'. They might not require medication for their malady, but they certainly need something in their lives.

Have you researched the correlation between regular dosing of psych meds and mass shootings? I have.  And both started increasing about the same time.  

I happen to disagree.  It IS a weakness.  150 years ago, we didn't have the problems we have today, almost no "therapy".  Men were men, women were women, and they were TOUGH.

We have CREATED a weak society with so-called therapists telling us our feelings are ok and how to cope.  I don't need anyone to tell me that.  I figure it out on my own.  All successful people do.  In fact, MOST successful people avoid all the "normal social constructs" of therapy, college, and societal cooperation.

Edited July 23, 2022 by LIBrty4all

[TBoneTX 43,492]

9 hours ago, Ban Hammer said:

as a mod, it starts when i open up vj and see the active reports number in double digits and upon opening another tab, the active reports have doubled..........

Where's the guillotine when we REALLY need it?

[elmcitymaven 9,711]

Good for you, LIB. Rock on with your bad self. Many of us and the people we love can't "figure it out" on our lonesomes. 

 

I'd say I'm pretty successful by the usual markers, and also by my own estimation. Great career, challenging and interesting work. Strong, supportive partner, loving and functional family. Tight-knit circle of friends. Enough money that (sorry to say it and it's not meant as a flex) inflation isn't affecting me in any meaningful way. (I keep thinking I have morphed into Lucille Bluth from Arrested Development, asking how much can one banana cost, $10?) I describe myself as "happy" which is something I couldn't always say about myself until pretty recently. I'm strolling around in the top slice of a Maslow pyramid, smelling the flowers, all self-actualized and stuff (most days). I know I'm lucky, but I also worked for it. Hard.

 

One of the ways I worked for it was through therapy. I have mild to moderate PTSD from an incident in my young adult life that played out in increasingly destructive ways as I got older. I also have an anxiety disorder that was diagnosed in my late 20s. Trying to "figure it out on my own" wasn't working, but not for want of trying. I needed help and I got it. Doing pretty awesome right now if I do say so myself! Even with a college education and high regard for, like, y'know, the social contract (note to self: Am I actually a loser?). Like a lot of other successful people out there, I bet. (Note to self: Definitely a loser.) I'm moving on past something that has been holding me back for 25 years. Good for me for putting in the work, talking it all out, learning to trust myself more.

 

I'm not on medication because talk therapy works for me. Works for me right now, that is. I've used meds in the past when I was depressed. As @beloved_dingo pointed out, there's a difference between acute, situational depression and chronic depression. I've had both, and for me SSRIs worked for the chronic depression and benzos worked for the acute flavor, mostly because my anxiety was out of control during these times (loss of a loved one; marital infidelity). I had work to do, a life to live, and lying basically catatonic on the couch for days wasn't cutting it because I'm an adult and have responsibilities. I talked it out with therapists, took the meds until my shrink said I could get off them (and they didn't want me to be on them any longer than I needed) and moved on with my life. Haven't had a depressive incident since 2011. Might not again, but I might. I know what to do if I do. 

 

Because mental illness is illness. It needs medical intervention. Being depressed isn't having a bad week or month. It's a body and a brain in chaos. Wounded and in need of help. When I got whiplash a few years ago in a car accident, I saw a doctor. When I had scarlet fever as a kid, my parents took me to the doctor. Migraines that affected my ability to work? Doctor. Tooth pain? Dentist who shamed me for my British dental work and fixed the problem once and for all. Serious illness needs help. No shame in it. 

 

I really do want to say again, good for you for doing it on your own. Good for you. But to belittle others who don't -- because bodies are different, brains are different, circumstances are different -- isn't necessary for your success to still stand. Be proud of it! No clue why you need to put others down to big yourself up but hey, we're all different. You do you, boo. I'm certainly doing me because it seems to be working GREAT.

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

4 minutes ago, elmcitymaven said:

Good for you, LIB. Rock on with your bad self. Many of us and the people we love can't "figure it out" on our lonesomes. 

 

I'd say I'm pretty successful by the usual markers, and also by my own estimation. Great career, challenging and interesting work. Strong, supportive partner, loving and functional family. Tight-knit circle of friends. Enough money that (sorry to say it and it's not meant as a flex) inflation isn't affecting me in any meaningful way. (I keep thinking I have morphed into Lucille Bluth from Arrested Development, asking how much can one banana cost, $10?) I describe myself as "happy" which is something I couldn't always say about myself until pretty recently. I'm strolling around in the top slice of a Maslow pyramid, smelling the flowers, all self-actualized and stuff (most days). I know I'm lucky, but I also worked for it. Hard.

 

One of the ways I worked for it was through therapy. I have mild to moderate PTSD from an incident in my young adult life that played out in increasingly destructive ways as I got older. I also have an anxiety disorder that was diagnosed in my late 20s. Trying to "figure it out on my own" wasn't working, but not for want of trying. I needed help and I got it. Doing pretty awesome right now if I do say so myself! Even with a college education and high regard for, like, y'know, the social contract (note to self: Am I actually a loser?). Like a lot of other successful people out there, I bet. (Note to self: Definitely a loser.) I'm moving on past something that has been holding me back for 25 years. Good for me for putting in the work, talking it all out, learning to trust myself more.

 

I'm not on medication because talk therapy works for me. Works for me right now, that is. I've used meds in the past when I was depressed. As @beloved_dingo pointed out, there's a difference between acute, situational depression and chronic depression. I've had both, and for me SSRIs worked for the chronic depression and benzos worked for the acute flavor, mostly because my anxiety was out of control during these times (loss of a loved one; marital infidelity). I had work to do, a life to live, and lying basically catatonic on the couch for days wasn't cutting it because I'm an adult and have responsibilities. I talked it out with therapists, took the meds until my shrink said I could get off them (and they didn't want me to be on them any longer than I needed) and moved on with my life. Haven't had a depressive incident since 2011. Might not again, but I might. I know what to do if I do. 

 

Because mental illness is illness. It needs medical intervention. Being depressed isn't having a bad week or month. It's a body and a brain in chaos. Wounded and in need of help. When I got whiplash a few years ago in a car accident, I saw a doctor. When I had scarlet fever as a kid, my parents took me to the doctor. Migraines that affected my ability to work? Doctor. Tooth pain? Dentist who shamed me for my British dental work and fixed the problem once and for all. Serious illness needs help. No shame in it. 

 

I really do want to say again, good for you for doing it on your own. Good for you. But to belittle others who don't -- because bodies are different, brains are different, circumstances are different -- isn't necessary for your success to still stand. Be proud of it! No clue why you need to put others down to big yourself up but hey, we're all different. You do you, boo. I'm certainly doing me because it seems to be working GREAT.

Sad that you felt I was putting you down.  Wasn't even thinking about you when I posted, not sure why you felt the need to make it about you.  PTSD sucks, and comes in many forms.  I've lost friends to suicide who faced the same things I did, in spite of MANY of us trying to support them and talk them away from the brink.  Having been ON the brink myself before, I know how and why someone can get there, but still do not understand the WHY when people decide to cross over.  

We are all victims in one way or another.  What we choose to do in those situations defines who we really are in the end.  For me, therapy and meds had negligible effects.  YMMV.  But I'm happy for you that you are happier now.  That is all that matters.