18 children, 3 adults killed in Texas elementary school shooting

[Crazy Cat 39,615]

2 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

May he, they, and you be comforted among all who mourn.

Amen...

[MarJhi 925]

7 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

Agree....until an emergency situation arises.  Should teachers learn CPR?   I think you fail to give teacher the credit they deserve.  I think most can multi-task.  

Yup, in a perfect world we would all just be able to focus on our jobs without having to worry about the unthinkable. In a perfect world we would not have to prepare for disaster, call 911 or deal with medical problems. 

[Dashinka 23,360]

33 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Also had rage issues, self harm, abusive..... ugh. His parents are alive, I'd like to know where their responsibility in all this is? Also grandpa is a convicted felon, and claims he had no idea there were guns in the house.... 

The parents in the recent Michigan school shooting are still in county jail awaiting trial.

[Dashinka 23,360]

Well of course Robert Francis had to make an appearance to politicize the tragedy.

 

Beto O'Rourke GATECRASHES Texas school shooting press conference and heckles Greg Abbott and Republicans over gun reform before being bundled out and called 'a sick son of a b***h'

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10854523/Beto-ORourke-marched-Texas-school-shooting-press-conference.html

[B_J 2,752]

36 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

Well of course Robert Francis had to make an appearance to politicize the tragedy.

 

Beto O'Rourke GATECRASHES Texas school shooting press conference and heckles Greg Abbott and Republicans over gun reform before being bundled out and called 'a sick son of a b***h'

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10854523/Beto-ORourke-marched-Texas-school-shooting-press-conference.html

Wow, Beto did not come off looking good in that situation.  The optics would have been different if Abbott or Patrick were responding to him but when it was the mayor yelling at him it really changed the mood of the moment.  It's not political for the mayor, it's personal, and it really made Beto look small.  

Edited May 25, 2022 by B_J

[yuna628 9,541]

38 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

Agree....until an emergency situation arises.  Should teachers learn CPR?   I think you fail to give teacher the credit they deserve.  I think most can multi-task.  

Well we've probably talked about this in some of the million other threads that crop up every time something of this nature happens - but I still firmly believe that firearms do not belong in the hands of teachers, I am fine with firearms being in the hands of trained officers on the premise and I believe that we need many other security measures in place that do not seem to have happened here. Officers have also stated that they do not agree with teachers having firearms on the premises, because in an active scenario, things get very dangerously complicated fast. My husband works with teachers every day, and he would tell you that there are some individuals teaching that you would not want even remotely belong having a weapon around your kids... and students that you would not want anywhere remotely near a firearm. If I had children in a school, I would personally not feel comfortable trusting a teacher with a gun around my kids nor would I want those kids to be around it. I'm sorry, I just wouldn't. 

 

The problems in this case are glaring: he got access to the building despite being in a shootout with cops and then got access to a schoolroom filled with kids. how did he breach into the room, when other shooters typically could not? 

 

I take the usage of guns very seriously, because the purpose of it is ultimately to maim or kill someone or something. That's one of the reasons why I do not believe young men like this belong obtaining such firearms as easily as he did (where did he have access to a couple thousand dollars, and obtain large amount of ammo?). If we could address how bad people get guns to begin with, perhaps people would feel more comfortable around them. When I lived in the city, gun violence was everywhere. Kids were killed every day. Now that I live in a rural area, guns are everywhere - and frequently I see individuals not treat those guns with respect and participate in unsafe behavior. There are individuals that own guns that are often drunk and violent. I still do not feel safe.

 

I believe in many cases, parents need to be held responsible for the actions of their kids. I have seen a lot of kids that are ticking timebombs, their parents say that they are shocked and had no clue. Well, I think some people need to get a clue. There are a lot of mentally disturbed and abusive individuals. I believe that laws that enable someone to own a gun with no experience or training is pure stupidity and I believe the bar should be higher for those that are young or have prior issues. It's always the same old story - suspect was known to police, suspect had mental problems, suspect had prior convictions and just slipped through... 

 

The answer never seems to actually be an answer.

[Crazy Cat 39,615]

19 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

but I still firmly believe that firearms do not belong in the hands of teachers,

Should a teacher learn CPR?  "Things get complicated fast"?  LIKE A SHOOTER KILLING CHILDREN AND TEACHERS??????  IT takes a LONG time for officers to respond to an active shooter!!!!     How many kids can be killed in the span of a few minutes???????  People need to use their brains.....

 

The liberal excuses need to end NOW!!!!!   The lives of children are at risk because "guns don't belong in the hands of teachers"...It is totally illogical.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Crazy Cat

[Crazy Cat 39,615]

12 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Well we've probably talked about this in some of the million other threads that crop up every time something of this nature happens - but I still firmly believe that firearms do not belong in the hands of teachers, I am fine with firearms being in the hands of trained officers on the premise and I believe that we need many other security measures in place that do not seem to have happened here. Officers have also stated that they do not agree with teachers having firearms on the premises, because in an active scenario, things get very dangerously complicated fast. My husband works with teachers every day, and he would tell you that there are some individuals teaching that you would not want even remotely belong having a weapon around your kids... and students that you would not want anywhere remotely near a firearm. If I had children in a school, I would personally not feel comfortable trusting a teacher with a gun around my kids nor would I want those kids to be around it. I'm sorry, I just wouldn't. 

 

The problems in this case are glaring: he got access to the building despite being in a shootout with cops and then got access to a schoolroom filled with kids. how did he breach into the room, when other shooters typically could not? 

 

I take the usage of guns very seriously, because the purpose of it is ultimately to maim or kill someone or something. That's one of the reasons why I do not believe young men like this belong obtaining such firearms as easily as he did (where did he have access to a couple thousand dollars, and obtain large amount of ammo?). If we could address how bad people get guns to begin with, perhaps people would feel more comfortable around them. When I lived in the city, gun violence was everywhere. Kids were killed every day. Now that I live in a rural area, guns are everywhere - and frequently I see individuals not treat those guns with respect and participate in unsafe behavior. There are individuals that own guns that are often drunk and violent. I still do not feel safe.

 

I believe in many cases, parents need to be held responsible for the actions of their kids. I have seen a lot of kids that are ticking timebombs, their parents say that they are shocked and had no clue. Well, I think some people need to get a clue. There are a lot of mentally disturbed and abusive individuals. I believe that laws that enable someone to own a gun with no experience or training is pure stupidity and I believe the bar should be higher for those that are young or have prior issues. It's always the same old story - suspect was known to police, suspect had mental problems, suspect had prior convictions and just slipped through... 

 

The answer never seems to actually be an answer.

Your PERSONAL feelings about guns are irrelevant to this problem...

 

You can theorize all day long about what parents should do........but what is protecting children's lives RIGHT NOW?????????  As a parent, I would fell MORE comfortable with a teacher having a gun...

 

"There are individuals that own guns that are often drunk and violent. I still do not feel safe."-  How is that relevant to this conversation?????

Edited May 25, 2022 by Crazy Cat

[Crazy Cat 39,615]

17 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

and students that you would not want anywhere remotely near a firearm.

That won't be a problem when armed teachers are properly trained. 

[B_J 2,752]

I read where one of the teachers died while trying to shield her kids from the shooter.  I really get frustrated when I read that.  The teacher wasn't protecting her kids.  She was merely putting herself in the position where she would die first.  Yes, it is noble and admirable; and she died a hero.  But I imagine a scenario at my school (all teachers imagine these scenarios) where instead of just putting myself in front of them, I was armed and could actually protect them.  Yes, I'm willing to die to protect my kids, but I'd much rather live while making the shooter die.

 

I understand that not every teacher should be armed but if enough were, it would certainly be better than what we have now.  Imagine if we could defend ourselves instead of just choosing which order we get shot.

[Crazy Cat 39,615]

4 minutes ago, B_J said:

I understand that not every teacher should be armed but if enough were, it would certainly be better than what we have now.  Imagine if we could defend ourselves instead of just choosing which order we get shot.

Agree......but a certain faction in the US will never accept the fact that a firearm in the hands of a properly trained owner is a DEFENSIVE tool.   Their focus is on the tool rather than the user of said tool. It defies all logic and common sense to allow our children to die. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Crazy Cat

[yuna628 9,541]

1 minute ago, Crazy Cat said:

You can theorize all day long about what parents should do........but what is protecting children's lives RIGHT NOW?????????  As a parent, I would fell MORE comfortable with a teacher having a gun...

 

"There are individuals that own guns that are often drunk and violent. I still do not feel safe."-  How is that relevant to this conversation?????

So if we have parents that want a teacher to carry a gun, and other parents that do not want that same teacher to carry a gun, what is the answer? Are police that say they do not want teachers carrying guns, in the wrong?

 

I'm simply trying to say that I grew up in an environment where bad people had quite a lot of guns. Now that I'm older, I'm in a location where there are supposedly plenty of good people with guns, except what I see isn't the best behavior with those guns. I have never felt safe or more secure when someone had a gun - no matter who they are. 

 

1 minute ago, Crazy Cat said:

That won't be a problem when armed teachers are properly trained. 

Why do they need training? Texas allows a person to carry without license or any sort of training. I'm glad you want proper training, but the law in Texas says that's not necessary. Weapons are also prohibited in schools in Texas, so even in a state that is very loose on restrictions.. acknowledge a school is not typically a place where guns should be.

[Crazy Cat 39,615]

8 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

So if we have parents that want a teacher to carry a gun, and other parents that do not want that same teacher to carry a gun, what is the answer?

What provides the fastest reaction to a threat??

 

8 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Are police that say they do not want teachers carrying guns, in the wrong?

Not ALL police say that/

 

8 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

I'm simply trying to say that I grew up in an environment where bad people had quite a lot of guns. Now that I'm older, I'm in a location where there are supposedly plenty of good people with guns, except what I see isn't the best behavior with those guns. I have never felt safe or more secure when someone had a gun - no matter who they are.

Ever seen just how many lawful, sane gun owners there are in the US?  Do you feel threatened by them?  Does it make you uncomfortable knowing that there are MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of us?

 

8 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Why do they need training? Texas allows a person to carry without license or any sort of training. I'm glad you want proper training, but the law in Texas says that's not necessary. Weapons are also prohibited in schools in Texas, so even in a state that is very loose on restrictions.. acknowledge a school is not typically a place where guns should be.

Silly question. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Crazy Cat

[B_J 2,752]

Really all we need, in Texas, is for schools to use the School Marshal program.  In addition to that, I would like the school marshals to undergo regular training at their campus, during off hours, where they practice strategies, in coordination with local law enforcement, to protect their students. 

 

https://www.tcole.texas.gov/sites/default/files/documents/school marshal brochure.pdf

Edited May 25, 2022 by B_J

[Crazy Cat 39,615]

Emotions over logic........it is careless, costly...and even dangerous.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Crazy Cat