24 States Would Have No Legal Protections for Abortion if Roe v. Wade Is Overturned

[Dashinka 23,433]

1 hour ago, Rosalind F said:

 

If a woman is lucky enough to NOT DIE due to childbirth there are so many things that get wrong the organism during the pregnancy and will affect the quality of life for a long time, including high blood pressure, depression, anemia, and many more. Then post-childbirth complications kick in. 

It IS safer to not get pregnant. Nobody should be able to force anybody to experience the health-threatening conditions, it must be a personal choice. 

So the odds are against a woman surviving childbirth?  

[laylalex 7,268]

No one said that. What has been said is that it is safer not to get pregnant than to get pregnant, given the attendant risks of childbearing. 

[Dashinka 23,433]

3 minutes ago, laylalex said:

No one said that. What has been said is that it is safer not to get pregnant than to get pregnant, given the attendant risks of childbearing. 

It sure seemed to say that in the post I was responding to.  In fact it was emphasized with all caps.

[laylalex 7,268]

2 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

It sure seemed to say that in the post I was responding to.  In fact it was emphasized with all caps.

That's a misrepresentation of what she said, if I'm being kind to you.  

[Boris Farage 353]

1 hour ago, Rosalind F said:

It IS safer to not get pregnant. Nobody should be able to force anybody to experience the health-threatening conditions, it must be a personal choice. 

Then don't. As I have been saying, it is the woman who can choose to be pregnant or not. Consequences have actions. If you choose to participate in behaviors that lead to pregnancy, then expect that the consequence will be a child.

[Dashinka 23,433]

Just now, laylalex said:

That's a misrepresentation of what she said, if I'm being kind to you.  

Then talk to that person.  I was just asking them a question and I am sure they  are capable of clarifying, but that is what I read.  I didn’t even touch the comment about it being safer not to get pregnant, as they stated it is a life threatening condition.

[yuna628 9,547]

Just now, Boris Farage said:

Then don't. As I have been saying, it is the woman who can choose to be pregnant or not. Consequences have actions. If you choose to participate in behaviors that lead to pregnancy, then expect that the consequence will be a child.

And we've been over this before... children, girls, and women are not willing participants in rape and incest which do usually result in abortions.

[laylalex 7,268]

2 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Then talk to that person.  I was just asking them a question and I am sure they  are capable of clarifying, but that is what I read.  I didn’t even touch the comment about it being safer not to get pregnant, as they stated it is a life threatening condition.

Fair enough. @Rosalind F, I think you and I are on the same side of the page. What you're saying is that there are any number of health risks that are attendant upon pregnancy, some of which are life-threatening, correct? And that not to be pregnant is to avoid those risks?

4 minutes ago, Boris Farage said:

Then don't. As I have been saying, it is the woman who can choose to be pregnant or not. Consequences have actions. If you choose to participate in behaviors that lead to pregnancy, then expect that the consequence will be a child.

It isn't as simple as that, and you know that. You're just talking in bad faith here -- what about victims of rape and incest? Do they "choose" or is that "choice" put on them? AGAIN, why would anyone want to force a woman or girl to bring a fetus to term in high-stress situations? I know you feel that you were somehow "robbed" of your child, but here's some free advice, just from me: go find a new partner who wants to have a child and try again. 

4 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

And we've been over this before... children, girls, and women are not willing participants in rape and incest which do usually result in abortions.

Exactly.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

24 minutes ago, laylalex said:

No one said that. What has been said is that it is safer not to get pregnant than to get pregnant, given the attendant risks of childbearing. 

No, what YOU said was that it was safer to abort than to give birth.  You never mentioned not getting pregnant.

 

Using your logic, we should be population declines within 10 years, and CO2 levels dropping in about 300 years (hopefully).

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,336]

I would never take a position that asked women to remain celibate 

[yuna628 9,547]

1 minute ago, ALFKAD said:

No, what YOU said was that it was safer to abort than to give birth.  You never mentioned not getting pregnant.

 

Using your logic, we should be population declines within 10 years, and CO2 levels dropping in about 300 years (hopefully).

The US population is already declining as a whole. The population of children in the US was originally estimated to be in big decline by 2030, but officials were surprised when the data showed rates were falling so fast, we are a decade ahead of schedule on that decline. Birth rates declined among younger women, even at the same time there was a slight rise in older women becoming pregnant (many reasons why that is). At the same time rates of abortion were also falling, and younger people were choosing to wait to have sex.

 

Abortion does have risks just like anything. But we cannot overlook that pregnancy is also very dangerous for a woman, even with our advances in technology/medicine and a miracle every time mother and child survive based on our maternal mortality rates (not even going to get into the UK ones... but it's a mess).

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 hour ago, Rosalind F said:

 

If a woman is lucky enough to NOT DIE due to childbirth there are so many things that get wrong the organism during the pregnancy and will affect the quality of life for a long time, including high blood pressure, depression, anemia, and many more. Then post-childbirth complications kick in. 

It IS safer to not get pregnant. Nobody should be able to force anybody to experience the health-threatening conditions, it must be a personal choice. 

You say lucky enough not to die. And yes, women die giving birth or just carrying to term.  But I think the chances of them drowning in the tub are MUCH higher.  So I reckon women should stop taking baths, eh?  0.145% of the US population die by drowning in a tub annually.  About 0.021% are maternal deaths.  That's about... 6.9 times more likely to die in a tub.

 

You can give lots of valid reasons for aborting, but maternal death isn't one I'd worry about much.  Thankfully, neither did my mom.  Nor yours.  Aren't you glad she was such a brave woman?

[laylalex 7,268]

14 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

No, what YOU said was that it was safer to abort than to give birth.  You never mentioned not getting pregnant.

 

Using your logic, we should be population declines within 10 years, and CO2 levels dropping in about 300 years (hopefully).

If I believed in a higher power, I'd say you need to find Jesus. I said that there is a higher incidence of maternal mortality with childbirth than with abortion. If you can't understand the difference between that and what you're saying I'm saying (which is not what I'm saying), I can't help you.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

15 hours ago, laylalex said:

When he can carry around a fetus, and subject himself to the great physical changes, some of which can be permanent or enduring, that pregnancy brings about, fine. You do know there is a higher risk of maternal mortality from pregnancy than from a legal abortion, right? You're a dad, right? You know that pregnancy is no joke on a woman's body. I terminated before the end of the first trimester, and was able to get a medical abortion rather than a surgical one. Even though it was early, I had serious problems like hyperemesis. Why would you force a woman to do something that will cause her physical and psychological trauma if she does not want to give birth, just because someone else wants it? I just cannot wrap my head around that. Fetuses pick up on stress of the mother, and a woman forced to carry to term would be under enormous stress.

Yes, child bearing IS stressful.  As it was 1500 years ago.  And yet women did it daily.  Still do.  And medical technology and advances have made it MUCH safer, especially in the past 100 years.

 

I made the point of the dad who wanted to keep the kid, but mom didn't.  He has no choice, only her.  Seems a tad one-sided to me.  And I get that it is her body that has to handle the trauma, therefore her choice.   It just seems a bit unfair to him, just because he is biologically unable to carry the baby.

 

You said it wasn't fair to enslave the woman with birthing a child at the behest of a father who wants to keep it.  But I bet you're COMPLETELY on board with a woman ignoring his wishes, getting an abortion, then divorcing him and enslaving HIM financially for many years via alimony.  Am I right?  That's ok, as long as she doesn't sacrifice her body?

[yuna628 9,547]

Just now, ALFKAD said:

You say lucky enough not to die. And yes, women die giving birth or just carrying to term.  But I think the chances of them drowning in the tub are MUCH higher.  So I reckon women should stop taking baths, eh?  0.145% of the US population die by drowning in a tub annually.  About 0.021% are maternal deaths.  That's about... 6.9 times more likely to die in a tub.

 

You can give lots of valid reasons for aborting, but maternal death isn't one I'd worry about much.  Thankfully, neither did my mom.  Nor yours.  Aren't you glad she was such a brave woman?

It was recommended that my mother abort me. She was very sick and now encountering an 'uhoh' surprise 'i had no idea i was even able to have a kid anymore' kinda pregnancy that was extremely high risk for her. She did not of course. I do wonder what her life would have been like if she had not had me. I don't say this with some sort of morbid fascination. She fell into a deep depression when I arrived and was not prepared/or really wanted life with another child and was (still is) a difficult woman of which, through no fault of my own of course, I now had to experience life with, and be made to feel like *her problems* existed because *I* existed. That was not an easy thing for a kid to grow up realizing. I have spent every day of my life being a dutiful daughter, but more like a housekeeper/nurse than someone she was joyful to have. My mom is brave for many other reasons, but I cannot say for certain that she was brave in this regard, more like very scared, angry about a lot of things, had no support in any way, and felt like she had no other choice but to continue her pregnancy or else disappoint her belief system.