Sending in I-129F packet -- is this okay?

[SalishSea 16,770]

4 hours ago, SmilingDuck said:

 Yes, I understood that but originally we were using the house which is worth 1.5 million so there wasn't any issue. If we can't use the house at all then we're about 60k short on assets because using these forms it assumes that my mother is part of the household so it becomes a 3 person household which is 26,662 if using income alone. We had 6,525 in income so that's (20,137 * 5 ) left needed in assets which minus our assets (not including the real estate we'd live in) would be 59,220 short. 

 

If they don't consider the house, we're going to be the longest (k1 visa) engaged people ever... We're already 14 months engaged...  

I don't believe the primary sponsor and the joint sponsor can combine incomes. ( @geowrian ?)  

[geowrian 22,335]

22 minutes ago, Jorgedig said:

I don't believe the primary sponsor and the joint sponsor can combine incomes. ( @geowrian ?)  

Income cannot be combined with a joint sponsor (or across any sponsors).

Income can be joined between a sponsor and a household member via an I-864A, if they qualify.

Edited August 17, 2019 by geowrian

[Zoeeeeeee 795]

8 hours ago, SmilingDuck said:

https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/can-i-use-my-primary-house-in-the-u-s--as-an-asset-475536.html 

 

These immigration lawyers say that you can use your primary residence to count as assets towards the petition. You just need a formal appraisal done. 

Unfortunately, that looks to be a random source on the internet (I would say it was wrong, but maybe for some countries they will accept it...I’ve never heard of these countries, but hey ho!)...however, on the guidance for the US embassy in Turkey, which is the guidance you need to be using as it’s where your fiancé will interview, it clearly states:

 

“A sponsor must attach to the affidavit his or her 1040 tax returns and W-2 forms for the most recent taxable year. If the sponsor claims additional assets on the I-864, he or she must attach proof of those assets as well. NOTE: A sponsor’s primary residence and/or car cannot count toward “proof of assets” since a sponsor would not be expected to sell his or her home to sponsor an immigrant.”

 

https://tr.usembassy.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/91/2016/10/Instructions-for-immigrant-visa-applicants-oct-2016.pdf

 

I’d suggest reviewing that document before proceeding, as it’s very helpful for all sections of the application.

 

Re it being the longest K1 ever, it doesn’t have to be. Go back to America and start working - you don’t have to save up additional savings of 60K, if you have a suitable income. 

[geowrian 22,335]

35 minutes ago, Zoeeeeeee said:

Unfortunately, that looks to be a random source on the internet (I would say it was wrong, but maybe for some countries they will accept it...I’ve never heard of these countries, but hey ho!)

Not quite random..it is fairly well known with immigration questions. That speaks nothing of it's accuracy in general, let alone this specific case, though.

 

Quote

“A sponsor must attach to the affidavit his or her 1040 tax returns and W-2 forms for the most recent taxable year. If the sponsor claims additional assets on the I-864, he or she must attach proof of those assets as well. NOTE: A sponsor’s primary residence and/or car cannot count toward “proof of assets” since a sponsor would not be expected to sell his or her home to sponsor an immigrant.”

 

https://tr.usembassy.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/91/2016/10/Instructions-for-immigrant-visa-applicants-oct-2016.pdf

 

I’d suggest reviewing that document before proceeding, as it’s very helpful for all sections of the application.

That's actually a document based on the I-864 from 2016. They revised the I-864 in 2017 or so and updated the wording to:

"Only assets that can be converted into cash within one year and without considerable hardship or financial loss to the owner may be included. The owner of the asset must include a description of the asset, proof of ownership, and the basis for the owner’s claim of its net cash value.

 

You may include the net value of your home as an asset. The net value of the home is the appraised value of the home, minus the sum of any and all loans secured by a mortgage, trust deed, or other lien on the home. If you wish to include the net value of your home, then you must include documentation demonstrating that you own it, a recent appraisal by a licensed appraiser, and evidence of the amount of any and all loans secured by a mortgage, trust deed, or other lien on the home. "

(And yes I know I said I-864 and this is a K-1 case so there's an I-134 instead...but those instructions linked are for an immigrant visa, which uses the I-864. For a K-1, the current instructions are here: https://tr.usembassy.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/91/2017/06/K1K2-Visa-Instructions-EN.pdf. And for the I-864, that will be handled by USCIS based upon their own instructions).

 

That said, the first paragraph still applies regarding not causing an undue hardship.  It's still not believable that one would sell their home to sponsor an immigrant. But say they had significant equity in the home and/or it was highly valued - it's not that unreasonable that one would refinance or move to a less expensive home as needed for an immediate relative. To be clear, I'm not saying that means it is wise to just use the entire net value of the home in lieu of income....but if one's case was closer to the borderline of being deemed satisfactory by the CO to address the public charge issue (via income or other assets), then it may be considered.

 

tldr: A primary home can be considered an asset for the public charge issue, but is only actually useful in limited situations. Generally one should meet the income/asset minimum with liquid or substantial non-primary assets (second car/home/etc.), and a home can supplement.

In practical terms, would a CO believe that a retired mother would not face an undue hardship by selling or refinancing their home...as they continue through retirement? Keep in mind the I-864 (for AOS) has no definitive expiration period...it can be a lifetime commitment. I'm just not seeing that happening, sorry.

Edited August 17, 2019 by geowrian

[Luu 5]

On 8/16/2019 at 1:03 PM, TXBill said:

Can you link the original post? Seems like a strange RFE for k1 maybe it's for the spousal visa?

 It was in here on p. 46. Someone just commented on the thread so I found it again. 

[Luu 5]

7 hours ago, Zoeeeeeee said:

Unfortunately, that looks to be a random source on the internet (I would say it was wrong, but maybe for some countries they will accept it...I’ve never heard of these countries, but hey ho!)...however, on the guidance for the US embassy in Turkey, which is the guidance you need to be using as it’s where your fiancé will interview, it clearly states:

 

“A sponsor must attach to the affidavit his or her 1040 tax returns and W-2 forms for the most recent taxable year. If the sponsor claims additional assets on the I-864, he or she must attach proof of those assets as well. NOTE: A sponsor’s primary residence and/or car cannot count toward “proof of assets” since a sponsor would not be expected to sell his or her home to sponsor an immigrant.”

 

https://tr.usembassy.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/91/2016/10/Instructions-for-immigrant-visa-applicants-oct-2016.pdf

 

I’d suggest reviewing that document before proceeding, as it’s very helpful for all sections of the application.

 

Re it being the longest K1 ever, it doesn’t have to be. Go back to America and start working - you don’t have to save up additional savings of 60K, if you have a suitable income. 

https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/authorized/affidavit-of-support-for-k-1-visa---can-my-mother--4544952.html?utm_campaign=answer_notify&utm_content=question_legal&utm_medium=email&utm_source=notification  

This post an immigration lawyer from Brooklyn answered about my situation directly. 

 

I will call the US embassy here directly and see if I can get an answer from them. 

 

Going back to America without my fiance is my LAST resort.

I'm looking for work online to see if that will help. 

 

 

[Luu 5]

19 hours ago, Zoeeeeeee said:

Unfortunately, the house in which she lives cannot be counted, as the point of the income/assets/savings is to demonstrate that she can financially support the immigrant...if he has medical bills that need paying, she’s not going to be able to use the house she lives in to pay them off.

 

Your $15K can absolutely be counted - but it isn’t enough on it’s own...

What about social security? Can I use that? Is it considered income or assets? 

 

My mom gets $16,224 a year but there is no place on the form for that because it is not considered taxable income so therefore it's not in the box listed on her tax form for Adjusted Gross Income.

 

Is there anywhere I can add that? 

[Crazy Cat 39,226]

17 minutes ago, SmilingDuck said:

What about social security? Can I use that? Is it considered income or assets? 

 

My mom gets $16,224 a year but there is no place on the form for that because it is not considered taxable income so therefore it's not in the box listed on her tax form for Adjusted Gross Income.

 

Is there anywhere I can add that? 

Past tax returns and current income are completely separate entities......Social Security is income...not assets...........Current income would be documented by things such as a Social Security awards letter......income is income....taxable or not.

 

By the way, no one likes to be separated......but is a common reality in immigration.....many couples find it necessary for the US citizen to return to the US first to establish domicile, income, etc.

Edited August 17, 2019 by missileman

[Luu 5]

12 hours ago, geowrian said:

Income cannot be combined with a joint sponsor (or across any sponsors).

Income can be joined between a sponsor and a household member via an I-864A, if they qualify.

 

I don't understand what you mean. The 125% is me and my mom together, right?

She is the joint sponsor and household member. I864 / I864A (her) or I134/I134. 

 

 

 

[Luu 5]

4 minutes ago, missileman said:

Past tax returns and current income are completely separate entities......Social Security is income...not assets...........Current income would be documented by things such as a Social Security awards letter......income is income....taxable or not.

 

By the way, no one likes to be separated......but is a common reality in immigration.....many couples find it necessary for the US citizen to return to the US first to establish domicile, income, etc.

Okay, because the form says "Adjusted Gross Income" and the line mentioned in the instructions does not include the social security benefits so I thought I couldn't put it. 

 

Let's redo some math.

 

26,662 needed.

mom and my income combined (including social security this time) = 22,749

3,913 left * 5 = 19,565

minus savings combined ( - 18,465)

= 1,100 

 

but we still have the house (1.5m) , mom's IRA (23k), and my foreign bank account (2k). 

 

Is it okay now? 

 

 

[Hank_ 9,173]

37 minutes ago, SmilingDuck said:

 

I don't understand what you mean. The 125% is me and my mom together, right?

She is the joint sponsor and household member. I864 / I864A (her) or I134/I134. 

 

 

 

 

28 minutes ago, SmilingDuck said:

Okay, because the form says "Adjusted Gross Income" and the line mentioned in the instructions does not include the social security benefits so I thought I couldn't put it. 

 

Let's redo some math.

 

26,662 needed.

mom and my income combined (including social security this time) = 22,749

3,913 left * 5 = 19,565

minus savings combined ( - 18,465)

= 1,100 

 

but we still have the house (1.5m) , mom's IRA (23k), and my foreign bank account (2k). 

 

Is it okay now? 

 

 

 

No not combined, 125% would be your mom's income ...  your income would be considered separately.   

 

SS income can be counted, no issue there, have your mom print out a copy of the benefits letter.

 

 

[geowrian 22,335]

3 hours ago, SmilingDuck said:

I don't understand what you mean. The 125% is me and my mom together, right?

She is the joint sponsor and household member. I864 / I864A (her) or I134/I134.

For a K-1 visa, it is an I-134 only.

 

For AOS:

You do not currently live together with your mom, so the I-864A as a household member will not work.

So she would need to be a joint sponsor (on an I-864). A joint sponsor must individually qualify based on their own income & assets. They cannot add their income or assets to your own.

 

3 hours ago, SmilingDuck said:

Okay, because the form says "Adjusted Gross Income" and the line mentioned in the instructions does not include the social security benefits so I thought I couldn't put it. 

SS is valid income.

 

Quote

Let's redo some math.

 

26,662 needed.

mom and my income combined (including social security this time) = 22,749

3,913 left * 5 = 19,565

minus savings combined ( - 18,465)

= 1,100 

A couple issues with this calculation...I highly suggest reading the I-864 instructions very closely.

1) You cannot combine the income of you and your mother (see above).

2) The 125% level is based upon household size. Your mother's household size is only 2 right (her + the immigrant being sponsored). You are not her dependent, correct? So the minimum income level for her would be $21,137 instead.

   (If this is incorrect and she has a spouse or other dependents, then adjust accordingly...I was just reading it as she is not currently married and is likely not to have unmarried, under-18 to 21 year old children)

3) You are only looking at the minimum required for an I-864 to be considered. Actually getting approved is very different. under the level = cannot be approved. Above = totality of the circumstances. Being right on the border is very risky.

 

Quote

but we still have the house (1.5m) , mom's IRA (23k), and my foreign bank account (2k). 

It's fine to include the value of the house, as I noted above, but realistically they would consider the IRA. Your bank account is irrelevant in her ability to sponsor as you cannot combine income/assets.

 

Quote

Is it okay now?

Only the CO can know for certain....but I really think it would be wise to look for another sponsor at this point. Or to get a job offer and start working in the US beforehand (it might be a little separation, but it is what it is).

Edited August 17, 2019 by geowrian

[Luu 5]

5 hours ago, Hank_ said:

 

 

No not combined, 125% would be your mom's income ...  your income would be considered separately.   

 

SS income can be counted, no issue there, have your mom print out a copy of the benefits letter.

 

 

How is it a joint sponsor if your finances are not considered jointly? 

 

The post above says that if it's a household member then they are able to combine income with the primary sponsor. Is that wrong? 

[Luu 5]

3 hours ago, geowrian said:

For a K-1 visa, it is an I-134 only.

 

For AOS:

You do not currently live together with your mom, so the I-864A as a household member will not work.

So she would need to be a joint sponsor (on an I-864). A joint sponsor must individually qualify based on their own income & assets. They cannot add their income or assets to your own.

 

SS is valid income.

 

A couple issues with this calculation...I highly suggest reading the I-864 instructions very closely.

1) You cannot combine the income of you and your mother (see above).

2) The 125% level is based upon household size. Your mother's household size is only 2 right (her + the immigrant being sponsored). You are not her dependent, correct? So the minimum income level for her would be $21,137 instead.

   (If this is incorrect and she has a spouse or other dependents, then adjust accordingly...I was just reading it as she is not currently married and is likely not to have unmarried, under-18 to 21 year old children)

3) You are only looking at the minimum required for an I-864 to be considered. Actually getting approved is very different. under the level = cannot be approved. Above = totality of the circumstances. Being right on the border is very risky.

 

It's fine to include the value of the house, as I noted above, but realistically they would consider the IRA. Your bank account is irrelevant in her ability to sponsor as you cannot combine income/assets.

 

Only the CO can know for certain....but I really think it would be wise to look for another sponsor at this point. Or to get a job offer and start working in the US beforehand (it might be a little separation, but it is what it is).

AOS is not done til after we are in America and then we will be living in the same house so she would be a household member. 

 

Right now I'm looking at the I-134. According to the way the form is set up it becomes a household of 3 (me, her, and him). I am not her dependent on her taxes nor is she financially responsible for me but that worksheet told me it was 3. 

 

I have no other option for sponsors, only my mom. 

[Just Paul 4,591]

12 minutes ago, SmilingDuck said:

a household member then they are able to combine income with the primary sponsor.

Household members can file I-864/I864A but that is for AOS.

 

You need one I-134 Sponsor that can sponsor the petition.   Again that is at the Consulate stage not the USCIS stage