Evidence of child support abroad?

[dawning 212]

Good evening VJ community,

 

I am looking at the requirements for filing for citizenship for my husband.  He has an almost 15 year old daughter from a previous relationship who lives with her mother in his home country (Venezuela).  While she doesn't have his last name and he isn't on her birth certificate due to a conflict-prone relationship with her mom when she was small, everyone knows that he is her father and they are currently in fairly regular contact.  We have included her information on every immigration form we have filed.  

 

He has sent money on a regular basis to her mother for her support pretty much since he has been here (4+ years) and has also taken clothing items and other necessities for her when he has visited Venezuela, or more recently sent them back with another family member who was visiting the US.  Because of the currency problems that Venezuela has had for many years, he isn't able to send money through regular channels like Moneygram, rather it is done through a third party arrangement:  We deposit checks into that person's US bank account, and they deposit Bolivares into the accounts of the people in Venezuela to whom we are sending money. 

 

Does anyone have any ideas of how to demonstrate this payment of support?  I think the mom would be willing to write a letter saying that she has been receiving the payments, but would that be enough?  Perhaps the woman with the US bank account could also write something explaining that she has been facilitating those payments for us.  All the checks we have are written to her (the money transfer woman) not the mother or the daughter.  I suppose he might also have Whatsapp messages talking about money and other things he has sent, but I don't know how useful those would be?

[David & Diana R 1,005]

2 minutes ago, dawning said:

Good evening VJ community,

 

I am looking at the requirements for filing for citizenship for my husband.  He has an almost 15 year old daughter from a previous relationship who lives with her mother in his home country (Venezuela).  While she doesn't have his last name and he isn't on her birth certificate due to a conflict-prone relationship with her mom when she was small, everyone knows that he is her father and they are currently in fairly regular contact.  We have included her information on every immigration form we have filed.  

 

He has sent money on a regular basis to her mother for her support pretty much since he has been here (4+ years) and has also taken clothing items and other necessities for her when he has visited Venezuela, or more recently sent them back with another family member who was visiting the US.  Because of the currency problems that Venezuela has had for many years, he isn't able to send money through regular channels like Moneygram, rather it is done through a third party arrangement:  We deposit checks into that person's US bank account, and they deposit Bolivares into the accounts of the people in Venezuela to whom we are sending money. 

 

Does anyone have any ideas of how to demonstrate this payment of support?  I think the mom would be willing to write a letter saying that she has been receiving the payments, but would that be enough?  Perhaps the woman with the US bank account could also write something explaining that she has been facilitating those payments for us.  All the checks we have are written to her (the money transfer woman) not the mother or the daughter.  I suppose he might also have Whatsapp messages talking about money and other things he has sent, but I don't know how useful those would be?

It's kind of strange but this sounds very much like money laundering??

[dawning 212]

Just now, David & Zoila said:

It's kind of strange but this sounds very much like money laundering??

I guess in a way it could sound like that.  As far as I can see this kind of arrangement is almost universal among Venezuelan ex-pats, because of the craziness with the Venezuela currency and inflation.  Some years ago the Venezuelan government declared the currency at an official fixed value, and the black market was always somewhat more than that.  At first it was only around 50% more, but after Chavez died and things got more and more difficult financially in Venezuela (and more and more people were selling everything and buying foreign currency to leave), the black market rate exploded, and then it was hundreds or thousands of times more than the official exchange rate.  I think the government has know done away with currency control (not sure on that) but at this point the currency is so volatile and the inflation so extreme that I don't even know if places like Moneygram will deal in Bolivares.  In any case, there are people who have this as their business: they have bank accounts in both countries, and contacts with people who to buy or sell bolivares.  They earn a percentage for their service.  I'm not sure if it is legal in Venezuela at this point (it wasn't in the past) but it IS keeping a lot of Venezuelans' heads above water as they subsist on money sent home by family overseas. 

[David & Diana R 1,005]

1 minute ago, dawning said:

I guess in a way it could sound like that.  As far as I can see this kind of arrangement is almost universal among Venezuelan ex-pats, because of the craziness with the Venezuela currency and inflation.  Some years ago the Venezuelan government declared the currency at an official fixed value, and the black market was always somewhat more than that.  At first it was only around 50% more, but after Chavez died and things got more and more difficult financially in Venezuela (and more and more people were selling everything and buying foreign currency to leave), the black market rate exploded, and then it was hundreds or thousands of times more than the official exchange rate.  I think the government has know done away with currency control (not sure on that) but at this point the currency is so volatile and the inflation so extreme that I don't even know if places like Moneygram will deal in Bolivares.  In any case, there are people who have this as their business: they have bank accounts in both countries, and contacts with people who to buy or sell bolivares.  They earn a percentage for their service.  I'm not sure if it is legal in Venezuela at this point (it wasn't in the past) but it IS keeping a lot of Venezuelans' heads above water as they subsist on money sent home by family overseas. 

I didn't mean to say you were doing anything wrong but perhaps the person facilitating the "transfer" of these funds might be involved in illegal activities.  Good luck.

[dawning 212]

5 minutes ago, David & Zoila said:

I didn't mean to say you were doing anything wrong but perhaps the person facilitating the "transfer" of these funds might be involved in illegal activities.  Good luck.

It might be illegal in Venezuela... It is allowing a lot of people to eat or pay the bills though.

 

It does look like Moneygram does send to Venezuela, at a lower exchange rate... Seems like maybe I have heard there is a hefty tax though, so maybe that's why Venezuelans are doing it with smaller businesses?  I am used to my husband arranging it all.

Edited March 15, 2019 by dawning
Edited to add, also for safety, as it's much safer for recipients to have money deposited in their bank account than to have to go pick up cash?

[Russ&Caro 1,548]

I could be wrong but I don't see how showing proof of child support payments would affect any kind of immigration application. As for applying for citizenship, he is required to do that, not you. And although the application asks him to list all children, such as his daughter, I don't believe there is a requirement for having paid child support in a country other than the US.

 

As for applying for the child to be a resident as a USC, proof of child support isn't going to be the determining factor. Without his name on the birth certificate he is probably going to have to establish paternity formally through a DNA test. Good luck.

[Ontarkie 13,922]

1 hour ago, Russ&Caro said:

I could be wrong but I don't see how showing proof of child support payments would affect any kind of immigration application. As for applying for citizenship, he is required to do that, not you. And although the application asks him to list all children, such as his daughter, I don't believe there is a requirement for having paid child support in a country other than the US.

 

As for applying for the child to be a resident as a USC, proof of child support isn't going to be the determining factor. Without his name on the birth certificate he is probably going to have to establish paternity formally through a DNA test. Good luck.

Proof of child support is required. Without it he will be denied on grounds of not good moral character. 

 

 

 

THe OP may want to search the boards this has come up before and maybe one of the other members detailed how they showed proof.

[dawning 212]

1 hour ago, Russ&Caro said:

I could be wrong but I don't see how showing proof of child support payments would affect any kind of immigration application. As for applying for citizenship, he is required to do that, not you. And although the application asks him to list all children, such as his daughter, I don't believe there is a requirement for having paid child support in a country other than the US.

 

As for applying for the child to be a resident as a USC, proof of child support isn't going to be the determining factor. Without his name on the birth certificate he is probably going to have to establish paternity formally through a DNA test. Good luck.

Thank you for your answer.  I do know that he is the one that will actually apply;  I am just helping him out by researching the requirements ahead of any actually application.  For the citizenship application there is something under good moral character that talks about the not refusing to support a dependent, and it seems I have read that when actually applying it asks for evidence of support payments if you list children that don't live with you. 

 

Yes, I have wondered about residency for his daughter as well... Not sure we would do that in any case, as she lives with her mother and half sister and is close to them, and I don't know if she wants to come to the US.  Although the way Venezuela is going leaving it can be very appealing for almost anyone. 

[dawning 212]

1 minute ago, Ontarkie said:

Proof of child support is required. Without it he will be denied on grounds of not good moral character. 

 

 

 

THe OP may want to search the boards this has come up before and maybe one of the other members detailed how they showed proof.

Thank you, yes that is my understanding too.  I have searched some, and will continue to do so.  Venezuela is just a little more difficult to send money to than other countries, so I was curious what others might have done to document payments made in less direct ways.  Would a letter from the mother be enough?

[Ontarkie 13,922]

I wish I knew whether a letter from the mother would be enough.

[dawning 212]

 

5 minutes ago, Ontarkie said:

I wish I knew whether a letter from the mother would be enough.

Thank you!  I will keep digging.  I was hoping maybe someone else in a similar situation might say what they had done.  I did see an old thread from some who had been paying child support directly to an ex here in the US and couldn't get her to write a letter.  But at least he had checks and records of payments to her... In this case we don't have anything with the mom or daughter's name... But I think the mom would be willing to write something; they are on better terms now than in the past.

[Russ&Caro 1,548]

8 hours ago, Ontarkie said:

Proof of child support is required. Without it he will be denied on grounds of not good moral character. 

 

 

 

THe OP may want to search the boards this has come up before and maybe one of the other members detailed how they showed proof.

My bad. I need to shut up when I don't know the requirement.

[Ontarkie 13,922]

7 hours ago, Russ&Caro said:

My bad. I need to shut up when I don't know the requirement.

It's ok we all learn. If I didn't have kids I probably would not have noticed those threads. Even though the kids are with me. 

[dawning 212]

Thanks everyone for trying to help.  I guess our situation is just a little unique due to Venezuela's financial instability.  Would it be helpful to post in the regional forum maybe?

[sexyafrican36 42]

I would say a written document from her Mother should be enough. I believe they are concerned about kids who are here and who might become public charge because of lack of support.