Questions to be asked at AOS interview - stressed to heck!

[TNJ17 1,329]

18 hours ago, geowrian said:

I concur with showing your income and your combined assets. I would try the severance income (if he is still receiving at the time), or unemployment compensation if he is receiving that. Nobody can know what the IO will decide, but I do think if they do ask for an updated I-864 and you provide both of the items above and that meets at least the minimum income level, you would have a decently strong case.

 

Plans to obtain another job, one's earning potential, etc. will not meet the requirements. They go by current income (and assets), not expected income.

 

This is technically incorrect. The I-864 only needs to be correct at the time it is filed. You are not required to present a new one unless requested.

The IO can request a new one, which would likely occur if he learns of the change in circumstances. Having a new I-864 and/or joint sponsor ready is recommended just in case.

Wrong. You are correct that the i864 needs to be valid at the time of filling it out, but if the circumstances change, ie employment, you are required to fill a new one out and bring to the interview with you. It says so on the instructions and that is pretty common sense to be honest. If you only had to have a job at the time you’re filling out a form, a lot of people would be subject of falling into public charge because their sponsor can’t financially support them. 

[Diane and Chris 651]

13 minutes ago, ShanghaiSurfer said:

Just had my interview today. They did not ask any questions regarding finances or for any pay stub or any other financial documents. However they did ask my occupation. So if you had the same officer you would have passed as your occupation hasn’t changed. All the rest of the questions were based on relationship. 

 

Wish you good luck. 

Congratulations!🎈🎉 

[geowrian 22,335]

2 hours ago, TNJ17 said:

Wrong. You are correct that the i864 needs to be valid at the time of filling it out, but if the circumstances change, ie employment, you are required to fill a new one out and bring to the interview with you. It says so on the instructions and that is pretty common sense to be honest. If you only had to have a job at the time you’re filling out a form, a lot of people would be subject of falling into public charge because their sponsor can’t financially support them. 

Where does it say this in the instructions? Page number please.

[A&H2018 146]

Woah, does Trump scare everyone this much seriously? Deportation matrix seriously? Let's look at at the positives.

 

To be clear, the severance only exists if he does not take another job? The release forms really say that, after both the firm and employee have releasted each other? That sounds more like a enforced "non-compete or clawback" than a severance. Next remember the i-864 explains that you can include up to 3 years of income taxes to show that "your income potential". Anyone with that level of severance has probably earned a wage "well above poverty gudieline" for the past several years, or again your severance calculation is real confusing.

 

Next, let's read what the form says everyone when OP does a new i-864..."Current Annual Income" is what you will report for 2018 taxes...it does not say your income is 0.00 cause you lost your job. It says add your income for the first 6 months, add your 2.5 months severance, add your unemployment benefits (if can show proof for rest of the year). Then if we can show taxes from 2015/2016/2017 that all have similar or higher levels of income. You have now 3 past years of well above income, and show you are on pace in 2018 to acheive the same. That is a much stronger case for an IO to reject. Unless the definition of "Current Annual Income" has changed to your current weekly salary * 52. The form also have a space to say "unemployed since" so a chance to say the truth. To prove your YTD income, probaby would need paystubs or some of the other evidence the i-864 instructions suggest.

 

Everyone just ready to deport everyone, or think USCIS IOs are here to send us all home.

[A&H2018 146]

Actually, again depending how this severance works. You may actually be on company payroll for 2.5 months more. So theoretically in i864 terms you may not even be "unemployed". Since the way I read it, is you have medical benefits (same as before) and 2.5 months of salary support, so while your working notice ended, you are still on company payroll. Then again me guessing here.

 

Item Number 7. Current Individual Annual Income. Type or print your current, individual, earned or retirement,
annual income that you are using to meet the requirements of this affidavit and indicate the total in the space provided

Edited July 18, 2018 by A&H2018

[geowrian 22,335]

Current individual annual income for an employee is how much you currently earn in a 12 month period. It is not what you earned earlier in the year. For instance, if somebody earned $30k in 6 months then lost their job (and had no severance or UC), their current annual income is $0.

 

Note that this differs than those who are self-employed, run a business, or have investment income. For that, your income is as stated on the tax returns (it's only revenue when earned within the tax year, not yet income).

[TriloByte 1,818]

Quote

Woah, does Trump scare everyone this much seriously? Deportation matrix seriously? Let's look at at the positives.

Because I now have time to respond to nonsense. I don't know anything about Trump.  I may have watched one video of him in my life which may have been some reality show 15 years ago. The answer to this one is no, for me. The deportation stuff was basically a joke and a way for me to underline that I was requesting a bit more detailed information about the process.

 

Quote

To be clear, the severance only exists if he does not take another job? The release forms really say that, after both the firm and employee have releasted each other? That sounds more like a enforced "non-compete or clawback" than a severance. Next remember the i-864 explains that you can include up to 3 years of income taxes to show that "your income potential". Anyone with that level of severance has probably earned a wage "well above poverty gudieline" for the past several years, or again your severance calculation is real confusing.

Yes, severance ends if I become employed again while on it. Yes, way above the poverty line.

 

Quote

Next, let's read what the form says everyone when OP does a new i-864..."Current Annual Income" is what you will report for 2018 taxes...it does not say your income is 0.00 cause you lost your job. It says add your income for the first 6 months, add your 2.5 months severance, add your unemployment benefits (if can show proof for rest of the year). Then if we can show taxes from 2015/2016/2017 that all have similar or higher levels of income. You have now 3 past years of well above income, and show you are on pace in 2018 to acheive the same. That is a much stronger case for an IO to reject. Unless the definition of "Current Annual Income" has changed to your current weekly salary * 52. The form also have a space to say "unemployed since" so a chance to say the truth. To prove your YTD income, probaby would need paystubs or some of the other evidence the i-864 instructions suggest.

I think you meant to say "stronger case for an IO NOT to reject". My annual income has been around or above 100k for a long time, 10+ years, without any breaks.

 

Quote

Everyone just ready to deport everyone, or think USCIS IOs are here to send us all home.

Right, because if one does not follow the rules or meet the requirements, that's what happens. There is a procedure in place, which is what we are trying to figure out here.

[TriloByte 1,818]

Quote

 

Actually, again depending how this severance works. You may actually be on company payroll for 2.5 months more. So theoretically in i864 terms you may not even be "unemployed". Since the way I read it, is you have medical benefits (same as before) and 2.5 months of salary support, so while your working notice ended, you are still on company payroll. Then again me guessing here.

 

Item Number 7. Current Individual Annual Income. Type or print your current, individual, earned or retirement,
annual income that you are using to meet the requirements of this affidavit and indicate the total in the space provided

 

I am unemployed as of 7/24/18 at which time I will, in fact, be unemployed. There will be no medical benefits. I have shared the income details.

Edited July 18, 2018 by TriloByte

[TriloByte 1,818]

I think we got the answers we needed from @geowrian

 

Here are the facts.

 

They may or may not ask about employment. If they do we will be prepared to show our current income and employment status. If they don't, we are not going to mention it and will update them of our new employer once that's known.

 

Depending on if they ask us about employment, we may run into the following:

1. RFE
2. Need to file a new 864
3. Need to file a new 485
4. Need to respond to an NTA
5. Extremely unlikely, deportation is we can't satisfy 1, 2, 3 or 4.

[A&H2018 146]

2 hours ago, geowrian said:

Current individual annual income for an employee is how much you currently earn in a 12 month period. It is not what you earned earlier in the year. For instance, if somebody earned $30k in 6 months then lost their job (and had no severance or UC), their current annual income is $0.

 

Note that this differs than those who are self-employed, run a business, or have investment income. For that, your income is as stated on the tax returns (it's only revenue when earned within the tax year, not yet income).

Hey, when I checked online before doing my i-864 pretty much every clinic or legal advice site says the “i-864 is valid for the year it is filed in”. So I think a majority of the people disagree with your stated definition of current individual annual income. Also in tax terms definition “annual income” means calendar year. 

 

https://cliniclegal.org/resources/five-most-common-mistakes-completing-i-864 like this. Since OP has ytd paystubs they should be able to use their caldenar year math. 

https://www.ilrc.org/sites/default/files/resources/intro_guide_affidavit_support-20180410.pdf

 

I belevie what people do is if their income went from 0 last year to 100k this year. They then use that other calculation to use prove a future higher income. They include an employment letter plus paystubs for 6 months. But the basic meaning should be the calendar year you are filing the i864. 

[geowrian 22,335]

3 minutes ago, A&H2018 said:

Hey, when I checked online before doing my i-864 pretty much every clinic or legal advice site says the “i-864 is valid for the year it is filed in”. So I think a majority of the people disagree with your stated definition of current individual annual income. Also in tax terms definition “annual income” means calendar year. 

 

https://cliniclegal.org/resources/five-most-common-mistakes-completing-i-864 like this. Since OP has ytd paystubs they should be able to use their caldenar year math. 

https://www.ilrc.org/sites/default/files/resources/intro_guide_affidavit_support-20180410.pdf

 

I belevie what people do is if their income went from 0 last year to 100k this year. They then use that other calculation to use prove a future higher income. They include an employment letter plus paystubs for 6 months. But the basic meaning should be the calendar year you are filing the i864. 

I have seen those sources before and understand why people follow that line of reasoning. Heck, I've read the CFR section supporting this. But I do stand by the interpretation noted above as that is how I believe the CO or IO will determine one's individual income on a general basis. I just see this as a case where reality doesn't match code. The CO/IO is given very strong discretion, and this is what I've noticed that they tend to do. But strictly following the CFR, your interpretation is correct.

 

Logically, it makes sense (to me) to go by the 12 month period. Somebody who is laid off has no funds to provide for support even if they earned way above the minimums earlier in the year. And somebody who lands a decently paying job in July 20XX and interviews in Dec 20XX may be under the minimum threshold for the I-864 that tax year, but many people in this circumstance have been approved without an issue. It doesn't make much sense to me that somebody who filed slightly sooner (and interview the same period of time later in the same year) and landed the exact same job a few months earlier in the tax year would be more qualified than the previous example. Both would have the same income level IMO, even though their expected income on their tax returns would differ.

 

But again, this is my interpretation based on experience, which I have noticed worked for many in the past. I do understand it does not match the letter of the law. I should have noted that clearly in my earlier response. Mea culpa.

[A&H2018 146]

I read the CFR just the other day too (I will not lie its rather confusing just as you explained). I agree you are correct its really tough how they judge it. I found this as...

https://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/FR/HTML/FR/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-111373/0-0-0-119337/0-0-0-119363.html where in 2006, they changed to your method to help applicants in the exact math you described. 

 

Thanks for your explanation. Agree seems the IO has some wiggle room for sure here to decide on their own. For OP's case if asked for a new i-864 sure hope it leans on the IO considering the orginial definition.

Edited July 18, 2018 by A&H2018

[A&H2018 146]

2 hours ago, TriloByte said:

I am unemployed as of 7/24/18 at which time I will, in fact, be unemployed. There will be no medical benefits. I have shared the income details.

OP, did not mean to come across rude my apoligies if got that sense. Yes I meant NOT. Understand now how they structued your severance.

Just trying to get across the fact as geowrian has stated. The IO should not penalize someone who starts a job later in the year, nor should they penalize someone whos former firm is forcing severance on them before finding a new job. I think having a new i-864 with all 3 past year tax transcripts, YTD paystubs and severance should give the IO enough proof or a very strong case to say you will soon find a job making 35% of your past 4 years average annual taxable income. Anyways hope the links I posted explain that case is possible and some reading for you to decide.

[TriloByte 1,818]

1 hour ago, A&H2018 said:

OP, did not mean to come across rude my apoligies if got that sense. Yes I meant NOT. Understand now how they structued your severance.

Just trying to get across the fact as geowrian has stated. The IO should not penalize someone who starts a job later in the year, nor should they penalize someone whos former firm is forcing severance on them before finding a new job. I think having a new i-864 with all 3 past year tax transcripts, YTD paystubs and severance should give the IO enough proof or a very strong case to say you will soon find a job making 35% of your past 4 years average annual taxable income. Anyways hope the links I posted explain that case is possible and some reading for you to decide.

Yes, there's quite a bit of "hope" needed here. I wasn't trying to be rude either, but it sure might come across that way while I am dealing with these circumstances. 

[janet3 1,170]

11 hours ago, TriloByte said:

I think we got the answers we needed from @geowrian

 

Here are the facts.

 

They may or may not ask about employment. If they do we will be prepared to show our current income and employment status. If they don't, we are not going to mention it and will update them of our new employer once that's known.

 

Depending on if they ask us about employment, we may run into the following:

1. RFE
2. Need to file a new 864
3. Need to file a new 485
4. Need to respond to an NTA
5. Extremely unlikely, deportation is we can't satisfy 1, 2, 3 or 4.

Okay.....but.....if you were making 100 grand a year and have been “repositioned....aka....layed off”.....you have already banked 50 grand this year (which is way above the 125% of the poverty guideline......unless you have 6 dependents....and if I remember correctly...you don’t) 

Why can he not present his past pay stubs showing he’s already met the requirements? 

@geowrian help me get this straight....

 

If he has already met the minimum requirements why would future income be important?