8 killed in shooting at Texas' Santa Fe High School, CNN affiliates report

[bcking 3,157]

9 minutes ago, jg121783 said:

I would argue that the availability of guns is not the factor we should be looking at. Mental health and the widespread use of SSRIs should be looked at as it seems to be a factor in most if not all of these shootings. SSRIs are known to cause suicidal and homicidal tendencies.

SSRIs increase the risk of suicidal thoughts.

 

The link to actions is harder. The population of people in SSRIs is obviously made up of a higher proportion of people with depression and other psychosis. So it's not clear if it's the mental health disease or the medication that increases the risk. More likely the underlying mental health disorder.

Edited May 19, 2018 by bcking

[Boiler 43,683]

46 minutes ago, missileman said:

I also grew up in a small rural town in the 1960s where every truck had a rifle or shotgun in the window rack.  Hunting seasons were MAJOR area events, and owning guns was easy.  I don't remember this kind of tragedy happening then.....Access to guns has never been the problem.

I learned to shoot at school, Lee Enfields, I seem to remember they had Bren's and Stirlings but no idea if they were operational, not a big thing then.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

55 minutes ago, bcking said:

SSRIs increase the risk of suicidal thoughts.

 

The link to actions is harder. The population of people in SSRIs is obviously made up of a higher proportion of people with depression and other psychosis. So it's not clear if it's the mental health disease or the medication that increases the risk. More likely the underlying mental health disorder.

I’m with you on the meds.  Sort of.  I have seen people taking them first hand, and some get “better” on the meds, and some definitely get worse.  But without a doubt, mental instability is more prevalent today than it was 50 years ago.    I wish we could figure out why, and more importantly, predict it and head it off.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

1 hour ago, jg121783 said:

I would argue that the availability of guns is not the factor we should be looking at. Mental health and the widespread use of SSRIs should be looked at as it seems to be a factor in most if not all of these shootings. SSRIs are known to cause suicidal and homicidal tendencies.

or are people that have those tendencies already getting  prescribed anti-depressants a lot. 

 

Not necessarily a cause and effect relationship 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 hour ago, IDWAF said:

I’m with you on the meds.  Sort of.  I have seen people taking them first hand, and some get “better” on the meds, and some definitely get worse.  But without a doubt, mental instability is more prevalent today than it was 50 years ago.    I wish we could figure out why, and more importantly, predict it and head it off.

 

   If we are blaming mental health, then we are probably saying that Americans have a higher rate of mental health issues than the rest of the world, because the end result is we are still way ahead of any other country in these types of incidents. Even in that case, the immense number of guns and the access to them is still part of the problem. 

 

 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

18 hours ago, IDWAF said:

And another thing on these shootings.  We as a nation/state/whatever need to start prosecuting the parents of kids who take guns to school and kill people.  What kind of parent allows their children access to unlocked guns?  If the gun belongs to the parent, then there should be some sort of shared responsibility.

Spooks, I KNOW you are intelligent enough to get it.  But not everyone does.  They want to blame the guns, the NRA, or just about ANYTHING except those who are actually to blame.  

 

  I agree with this, I've actually suggested it several times. Parents should face tougher legal repercussions in all these cases, and also in cases where toddlers get a hold of a gun. I'm tire of hearing "but they've suffered enough". No, they haven't.

[Crazy Cat 39,561]

We can continue speculate as to the causes, but that, in itself, doesn't provide any additional protection to our children.  The fact is that there is NO way to eliminate guns in America.  Therefore, we must look for feasible solutions.  Legislating more laws and posting more signs are useless.  There is an immediate danger of this tragedy happening again, and it begs for immediate and effective intervention.  The only immediate and effective solution is increasing the ability to stop these individuals when they enter our schools with weapons.

 

----now stepping off soap box-----

[Steeleballz 7,550]

17 minutes ago, missileman said:

We can continue speculate as to the causes, but that, in itself, doesn't provide any additional protection to our children.  The fact is that there is NO way to eliminate guns in America.  Therefore, we must look for feasible solutions.  Legislating more laws and posting more signs are useless.  There is an immediate danger of this tragedy happening again, and it begs for immediate and effective intervention.  The only immediate and effective solution is increasing the ability to stop these individuals when they enter our schools with weapons.

 

----now stepping off soap box-----

 

    We don't need to avoid legislation, just realize it is not an answer in the short run. It should be more of a target for long term changes. I'm all for looking at laws that target irresponsible gun owners. Lack of responsibility in general is prevalent in our society. People speculate on how things are different from 30 years ago. Lack of responsibility is one of the things, and lack of respect to go with that.

 

   Today if a kid is getting beat up at school, it's more likely to be a you-tube video than have someone step in and do the right thing. We may not have all the reasons why this has happened, but we do have to respond to the changes. I do think a greater law enforcement presence in schools would help. I think making it harder for teens to get guns would also help. Consequences for parents of these teens would also help. We are no longer at the point where we can expect to fix this over night. We should still try to fix it.

 

   

[Crazy Cat 39,561]

2 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 We are no longer at the point where we can expect to fix this over night. We should still try to fix it. 

We can't fix society overnight, but we can certainly fix the immediate need for more security in our schools very quickly.  Stop the bleeding first, imo.  And I think our schools (which is the place these teenage killers choose their victims) can be made safer for students without taking away the rights of law abiding gun owners. 

Guns don't kill.  People kill.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

2 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   If we are blaming mental health, then we are probably saying that Americans have a higher rate of mental health issues than the rest of the world, because the end result is we are still way ahead of any other country in these types of incidents. Even in that case, the immense number of guns and the access to them is still part of the problem.

 

 

I just can't agree with this.  America was founded on guns, and life was still sacred.  You didn't call a man a liar or a cheater in the 1800s without pulling iron.  Problem solved.  Horse thieves?  Hanged on the spot.  Rape a woman?  Public neck swinging.   

 

We have gotten soft when it comes to punishment.  A little bit of that is good, but it's my opinion that much is not.  Steal something, get your hands cut off, and there is suddenly no incentive to steal.  Kill someone, get DED,  and now there is not much glory in shooting up innocent victims.

 

I don't know that Americans have a higher rate of mental health issues, but those issues are certainly more prevalent than they were when I was growing up.  Maybe all over; I really don't follow foreign countries like some do.  But we do have a problem, and the #sillytitle of #guncontrol will do nothing to improve our situation.

 

(To be clear, I am disagreeing with nothing you said except the raw number of guns, here or in other posts In this thread)

[Steeleballz 7,550]

13 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

I just can't agree with this.  America was founded on guns, and life was still sacred.  You didn't call a man a liar or a cheater in the 1800s without pulling iron.  Problem solved.  Horse thieves?  Hanged on the spot.  Rape a woman?  Public neck swinging.   

 

We have gotten soft when it comes to punishment.  A little bit of that is good, but it's my opinion that much is not.  Steal something, get your hands cut off, and there is suddenly no incentive to steal.  Kill someone, get DED,  and now there is not much glory in shooting up innocent victims.

 

I don't know that Americans have a higher rate of mental health issues, but those issues are certainly more prevalent than they were when I was growing up.  Maybe all over; I really don't follow foreign countries like some do.  But we do have a problem, and the #sillytitle of #guncontrol will do nothing to improve our situation.

 

(To be clear, I am disagreeing with nothing you said except the raw number of guns, here or in other posts In this thread)

 

   And sometimes in the 1800's, we did have people who recognized gun control was necessary. Let's not forget that part. There was a reason many frontier towns prohibited carrying of firearms.

       

 

 

 

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

5 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   If we are blaming mental health, then we are probably saying that Americans have a higher rate of mental health issues than the rest of the world, because the end result is we are still way ahead of any other country in these types of incidents. Even in that case, the immense number of guns and the access to them is still part of the problem. 

 

 

If guns are part of the issue,  why didn't we have these issues when gun access was much easier and were not banned at schools 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

45 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

If guns are part of the issue,  why didn't we have these issues when gun access was much easier and were not banned at schools 

 

   Because guns are part of the issue. There are other parts to it as well, as we have just discussed. For example, if mental health issues are increasing, access to guns for people with mental health issues must decrease. Otherwise the problem gets bigger.

 

    How many of these shootings has the access to firearms come from the parents?  IIRC there have been several. I have the same story as many. My dad used to keep his rifles in the closet. We kids never even looked at them. Fact is, maybe that is not enough any more. Especially if you know your kid has issues.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

Don't know if we have more nuts or we just have more coverage of nuts 

[TBoneTX 43,404]

4 hours ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

more coverage of nuts 

As I'd stated in an earlier thread:  stop the coverage of these nobody maladroits who see these acts as their way to fame, and we'll see fewer such incidents.