Conditional part of permanent residency / gun permits

[leopheard 2]

I was going to post this under my original thread, but the link was closed so I'm posting in the event it helps anyone else who was in my situation at any point:

 

 

Basically, denied a concealed handgun permit for a non-resident VA CHP (non-resident as in resident of another of the 49 states). Couldn't get one in NC at the time because they allowed permanent residents to buy guns, but wouldn't issue CHPs unless you were a citizen. This has now been overturned as unconstitutional anyway. Didn't make sense because NC recognises all other states permits...

 

Anyway, VA denied me on the grounds of being a 'conditional resident' rather than actually what I was at the time (lawful conditional permanent resident). Appealed and denied, until I stated mentioning civil rights violations to the VA State Police professional standards dept. My final response that made them see the light is below incase it's useful to anyone. Don't give up if you have this sort of hassle, remember the Constitution applies to everyone within the US or under their jurisdiction. Would it be legal to deny the 5th amendment rights (due process) to a tourist in the USA when charged of a crime while on holiday here? Nope.

Edited December 22, 2017 by leopheard

[leopheard 2]

to: IAUnit@vsp.virginia.gov
date: Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 10:31 PM

subject: Breach of civil rights over CCW / CHP denial

mailed-by:gmail.com

 

FAO: Professional Standards Dept

 

To whom it may concern,

 

Please consider this a formal complaint against VSP for a breach of my civil rights over the above denial.

 

VSP wrote to me on July 16th and 29th, both times quoting VA code 18.2-308.09 subsection 10 being the reason for the denial. This states:

 

The following persons shall be deemed disqualified from obtaining a permit:

10. An alien other than an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence in the United States.

 

Please see my explanatory letter to VSP detailing that although I have lawful conditional permanent residency (CLPR) granted by USCIS, I do not have 'conditional residency' or 'temporary residency' as these two immigration status classifications do not exist. I have all the rights of a lawful permanent resident as I was lawfully admitted for permanent residence in the US on 05/29/2014 in Orlando. The conditional aspect only requires myself/my wife to petition USCIS in 2016 to show we are still married. It does not affect anything else in relation to LPR. 

 

The 'conditional' meaning of CLPR is defined within Title 8 Section 1216.1 Code of Federal Regulations, which can be found on the USCIS website:

http://www.uscis.gov/iframe/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-11261/0-0-0-35941/0-0-0-35954.html#0-0-0-21551

 

Both the VA code and USCIS definition of being 'lawfully admitted for permanent residence' are exactly the same:

Code of Federal Regulation Vol 68. pages 35273 - Section 1.1: Definitions: (p)
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2003-06-13/html/03-14931.htm

VA Code § 18.2-307.1. Definitions:

https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-307.1

 

It appears the staff within the firearms dept. of VSP have not been sufficiently trained in immigration laws and are making their decision based on an assumption. The second decision did not even have the courtesy to explain in further detail and just appeared to be a copy/paste of the original decision without further thought.

 

This is not only unlawful but a clear breach of my civil rights, as VSP are not following the rule of law and are applying a legal definition to my status which does not exist. I have reviewed the VA code in relation to out of state applicants. I satisfy ALL the conditions and no disqualifications apply to me. There is no good cause VSP have denied my application.

 

I have had exactly the same issue with Wake County Sherriff's Office in NC re: a purchase permit. They took the time to speak to their dedicated ICE contact and got back to me saying my CLPR was sufficient, as the word 'conditional' also confused them. I am disappointed VSP feel unable they need to actually look into this matter.

 

I would like PSD to do the following:

 

1) Contact a knowledgeable individual within USCIS to confirm the above (my LPR is equal to any other LPR and the 'conditional' does in no way affect the permanence of my residency)

2) Investigate why this application was rejected twice on false grounds

3) Contact me in order to confirm the application will be approved if resent

 

I look forward to hearing from you in due course.

 

Regards

[Boiler 45,670]

Move to Colorado!

 

Only joking, we are full.

 

You can get a concealed carry here. Seem to remember they are doing something about reciprocity, might help.

 

Here you go through the County, so I never had dealings with the State.

[Villanelle 4,122]

FYI I reported this thread due to the content. Hopefully a mod will be along shortly but lets try to keep the peace, we are all adults here.

 

 

Anyway Im glad you were able to resolve this. I always found it weird VA will issue permits after taking an online class only! 

[Ban Hammer 13,407]

multiple posts removed for creating drama or for quoting those posts.

admin action has been taken against one member.

post constructively or DO NOT POST.

 

charles

vj moderation

[Boiler 45,670]

2 hours ago, Damara said:

I'm glad you were able to resolve this. I always found it weird VA will issue permits after taking an online class only! 

A friend of mine does classes so that is where I did mine, his are much more comprehensive than the Colorado state minimum.  I know you can get er done at a Gun Show in less than 2 hours.

 

Hunters Ed was on line followed by a class but to be honest the class was a waste of time as it just repeated bits of the on line, there was a test afterwards but it was akin to the DL test and you would have to have tried really hard to fail.

 

As an aside Ruger has just launched a new EDC, tempted.

[Chris Duffy 1,257]

On ‎12‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 2:28 PM, leopheard said:

I was going to post this under my original thread, but the link was closed so I'm posting in the event it helps anyone else who was in my situation at any point:

 

 

Basically, denied a concealed handgun permit for a non-resident VA CHP (non-resident as in resident of another of the 49 states). Couldn't get one in NC at the time because they allowed permanent residents to buy guns, but wouldn't issue CHPs unless you were a citizen. This has now been overturned as unconstitutional anyway. Didn't make sense because NC recognises all other states permits...

 

Anyway, VA denied me on the grounds of being a 'conditional resident' rather than actually what I was at the time (lawful conditional permanent resident). Appealed and denied, until I stated mentioning civil rights violations to the VA State Police professional standards dept. My final response that made them see the light is below incase it's useful to anyone. Don't give up if you have this sort of hassle, remember the Constitution applies to everyone within the US or under their jurisdiction. Would it be legal to deny the 5th amendment rights (due process) to a tourist in the USA when charged of a crime while on holiday here? Nope.

Great Job

 

I have always heard Virginia was the best state to get a Concealed handgun permit for an non residence

[Chris Duffy 1,257]

On ‎12‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 4:04 PM, Damara said:

FYI I reported this thread due to the content. Hopefully a mod will be along shortly but lets try to keep the peace, we are all adults here.

 

 

Anyway Im glad you were able to resolve this. I always found it weird VA will issue permits after taking an online class only! 

I find it weird some states require a class just to carry concealed in a car.

 

The silliest part is other states don't recognize other states permits to carry, they recognize a Driver License but not a concealed carry license.  

[broppy 204]

On 22/12/2017 at 3:41 PM, Boiler said:

Seem to remember they are doing something about reciprocity, might help.

H.R.38 - Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017. Passed in congress, but still needs to get through the senate. Would allow anyone who can carry concealed in their home state to do so in any other state.

[nutsmunkey2000 3]

Not yet a citizen but was approved for an Oregon concealed license a couple of months ago. I just had to show my intent to become a citizen and it was easy from there. I’d been open carrying whilst hunting and target shooting in the woods up until that point. The CHL now allows me to carry much more discreetly. 

[Boiler 45,670]

Currently looking for an EDC, so many choices...

[Chris Duffy 1,257]

On ‎12‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 1:09 PM, broppy said:

H.R.38 - Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017. Passed in congress, but still needs to get through the senate. Would allow anyone who can carry concealed in their home state to do so in any other state.

It would be nice to see this pass.

 

I give it about 30% chance of becoming a law.  

[PickleChips 56]

I applied as a conditional permanent resident in Fairfax County VA and was issued a permit, no problems. I'm glad you pursued this and won! They are being lazy.  

Edited December 28, 2017 by Katmedic