'Enough is enough': Theresa May says there's been 'far too much tolerance' of 'evil' Islamist extremism in the UK

[Mr&Mrs G. 903]

33 minutes ago, CaliCat said:

 

 

So, a Muslim ban would not have prevented the attacks in London, no more that they could have prevented the attack in Manchester.

Would the ban not be to prevent the next guy trying to reach your shores? Although if no solution has been found to deal with the ones that are already there then what's the point.

[Boiler 47,478]

Stop reinforcements?

[IAMX 3,055]

37 minutes ago, Mr&Mrs G. said:

Would the ban not be to prevent the next guy trying to reach your shores? Although if no solution has been found to deal with the ones that are already there then what's the point.

If you notice all the zeal the left have toward reducing gun violence, it's rather humorous when it comes to terrorism, meh, can't stop it, what's the point. 

[Póg mo 1,749]

On 6/4/2017 at 11:07 AM, Mr&Mrs G. said:

And if you looked closer you would have seen the cans that had UDF or UDA on them, actually you wouldn't because they would have been getting funded by government money.  Just as in your other link governments have been funding all sorts for years.  

I don't think kilburn would have been a prime spot for members of the UDA, especially not ones openly announcing their presence.  

[Mr&Mrs G. 903]

4 minutes ago, Póg mo said:

I don't think kilburn would have been a prime spot for members of the UDA, especially not ones openly announcing their presence.  

Of course not and it would have been a brave one who did.

 

I was being sarcastic because a lot of money for both the UDA and UDF was back channelled UK government money. 

[Jacque67 7,328]

15 minutes ago, Póg mo said:

I don't think kilburn would have been a prime spot for members of the UDA, especially not ones openly announcing their presence.  

http://kilburnandwillesdenhistory.blogspot.com/2015/08/an-ira-funeral-march-and-bomb-at-biddy.html

 

yeah it was chilling at the time...gulped down my pint and made a quick exit...

[OriZ 3,165]

7 hours ago, IAMX said:

Incompetence, deliberate or otherwise..

 

 

 

That's utterly ridiculous. As I wrote to yuna the other day, apart from ensuring that they have the tools to live a fulfilling life(and trust me I'd be the last to say that anybody who has a fulfilling life could not become a terrorist as that is evidently not true - but it does help reduce the chances with most), key is intelligence. But then you also have to act on said intelligence. Really I see no other way and no other solution - we can't armor ourselves to death or take an hour to get through security to watch a concert. We also can't kick everybody out. What we do need to do is make sure those that come in are properly vetted, maintain good intelligence and act upon it, and try and do whatever we can so that those people don't decide to go loopy one day. Part of that is also not allowing any incitement on either side. Yes, some of them will choose to anyway, c'est la vie.

Edited June 6, 2017 by OriZ

[Dashinka 25,856]

5 hours ago, OriZ said:

That's utterly ridiculous. As I wrote to yuna the other day, apart from ensuring that they have the tools to live a fulfilling life(and trust me I'd be the last to say that anybody who has a fulfilling life could not become a terrorist as that is evidently not true - but it does help reduce the chances with most), key is intelligence. But then you also have to act on said intelligence. Really I see no other way and no other solution - we can't armor ourselves to death or take an hour to get through security to watch a concert. We also can't kick everybody out. What we do need to do is make sure those that come in are properly vetted, maintain good intelligence and act upon it, and try and do whatever we can so that those people don't decide to go loopy one day. Part of that is also not allowing any incitement on either side. Yes, some of them will choose to anyway, c'est la vie.

You raise a good point that I believe Yuna also raised.  When you look at the most recent attacks in the U.K. And the rest of Europe, or even back to Boston, or 9/11 it seems that there was some knowledge somewhere in government regarding these actors.  That raises the questions we're the intelligence agencies just overwhelmed with the information, were they incompetent, or was there a lack of coordination between interagency intelligence officials?  

 

I also wanted to comment about the whole waiting in lines for hours to see a concert, do we also have to wait in lines forever to exit the same concert?

[OriZ 3,165]

48 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

You raise a good point that I believe Yuna also raised.  When you look at the most recent attacks in the U.K. And the rest of Europe, or even back to Boston, or 9/11 it seems that there was some knowledge somewhere in government regarding these actors.  That raises the questions we're the intelligence agencies just overwhelmed with the information, were they incompetent, or was there a lack of coordination between interagency intelligence officials?  

 

I also wanted to comment about the whole waiting in lines for hours to see a concert, do we also have to wait in lines forever to exit the same concert?

In Israel they wand you and check your bag when you enter the mall, or certain restaurants, or several other places. It's interesting because having lived with that all my life, despite the safety it provides I'll take how it's done here over that. The funny thing is, my wife having lived here all her life and spending 4 years there much prefers the way they do it there because it made her feel safer. I'm not sure she'd feel the same way though if she had dealt with it for as long as I have, but she wishes they started doing it here. Me, I'll take the risk over the hassle. But maybe that's because they never actually checked her lol. It was funny, because everyone in line infront of us would get wanded and their bag searched, and then I would get searched and she wouldn't. We even tried to switch - with me going first sometimes and her going first other times and it didn't matter. She would walk in and start laughing and I would catch up to her and flip her off. I always said to her, all you need to do is look like a cute American female and you can blow the whole place up.

Edited June 6, 2017 by OriZ

[sarahandyunus 133]

22 minutes ago, OriZ said:

In Israel they wand you and check your bag when you enter the mall, or certain restaurants, or several other places. It's interesting because having lived with that all my life, despite the safety it provides I'll take how it's done here over that. The funny thing is, my wife having lived here all her life and spending 4 years there much prefers the way they do it there because it made her feel safer. I'm not sure she'd feel the same way though if she had dealt with it for as long as I have, but she wishes they started doing it here. Me, I'll take the risk over the hassle. But maybe that's because they never actually checked her lol. It was funny, because everyone in line infront of us would get wanded and their bag searched, and then I would get searched and she wouldn't. We even tried to switch - with me going first sometimes and her going first other times and it didn't matter. She would walk in and start laughing and I would catch up to her and flip her off. I always said to her, all you need to do is look like a cute American female and you can blow the whole place up.

They do this in Turkey too! My husband somewhat thinks that all the security checks have been put in place to create extra jobs, but there definitely is a need for it at the moment, given the current climate in Turkey. There are checks when you enter the mall, when you enter an arena, when you enter Ataturk airport even without going through security to fly....

 

 

I agree with what people above were saying about intellegence. If the UK government knew about these men, WHY WAS NOTHING DONE?? I don't get it. If an imam/community members/intellegence know about extremism, why is the person not arrested?! One of the guys was even on a documentary about Jihadists...what the heck, why are you making a documentary about these crazy people versus locking them up?! I don't get it. 

[OriZ 3,165]

7 minutes ago, sarahandyunus said:

They do this in Turkey too! My husband somewhat thinks that all the security checks have been put in place to create extra jobs, but there definitely is a need for it at the moment, given the current climate in Turkey. There are checks when you enter the mall, when you enter an arena, when you enter Ataturk airport even without going through security to fly....

 

 

I agree with what people above were saying about intellegence. If the UK government knew about these men, WHY WAS NOTHING DONE?? I don't get it. If an imam/community members/intellegence know about extremism, why is the person not arrested?! One of the guys was even on a documentary about Jihadists...what the heck, why are you making a documentary about these crazy people versus locking them up?! I don't get it. 

Oh I wouldn't doubt they do it there as well. The way they do it in the Airport in Israel is actually pretty different - there usually aren't any checks entering the airport but plenty of eyes watching you. Having worked in a thermal imaging company before that sold stuff to airports and militaries all over the world(including the Turkish one!) I wouldn't doubt is there's thermal cameras to detect if your body temperature is like too high or something - just many measures that they use without anybody knowing to try and detect potential suspects. I've mentioned here before my friends and I used to play a "game" where we would try to spot who might be undercover. It's a system that apparently many places around the world are trying to learn and implement now but knock on wood seems to have worked out pretty well there so far. 

 

Regarding the intelligence, that is also why I said no incitement should be allowed. That also means even if these people haven't committed any acts of terrorism per se yet, you look into it anyway, and do what it takes to stop it. When it comes to supporting and encouraging terrorism there is no free speech, as it's been shown that many times people who "only" expressed support on FB and such ended up committing an act themselves.

Edited June 6, 2017 by OriZ

[sarahandyunus 133]

2 minutes ago, OriZ said:

Oh I wouldn't doubt they do it there as well. The way they do it in the Airport in Israel is actually pretty different - there usually aren't any checks entering the airport but plenty of eyes watching you. Having worked in a thermal imaging company before that sold stuff to airports and militaries all over the world(including the Turkish one!) I wouldn't doubt is there's thermal cameras to detect if your body temperature is like too high or something - just many measures that they use without anybody knowing to try and detect potential suspects. I've mentioned here before my friends and I used to play a "game" where we would try to spot who might be undercover. It's a system that apparently many places around the world are trying to learn and implement now but knock on wood seems to have worked out pretty well there so far. 

 

Regarding the intelligence, that is also why I said no incitement should be allowed. That also means even if these people haven't committed any acts of terrorism per se yet, you look into it anyway, and do what it takes to stop it. When it comes to supporting and encouraging terrorism there is no free speech, as it's been shown that many times people who "only" expressed support on FB and such ended up committing an act themselves.

Wow, that seems like an interesting job! Yeah, they are pretty diligent in Turkey at the moment, as they should be! I'm not sure if there are people undercover there much - I never thought to look, but I definitely will look next time I'm over there. 

 

Yeah, I agree with the no incitement thing - I don't understand why expressing support should still be allowed. Any sympathizers should be taken seriously 

[OriZ 3,165]

Just now, sarahandyunus said:

Wow, that seems like an interesting job! Yeah, they are pretty diligent in Turkey at the moment, as they should be! I'm not sure if there are people undercover there much - I never thought to look, but I definitely will look next time I'm over there. 

 

Yeah, I agree with the no incitement thing - I don't understand why expressing support should still be allowed. Any sympathizers should be taken seriously 

The way I see it - It would make it alot easier to leave the innocent people alone if the sympathizers got more attention. I am sure there are people undercover there as well - it's an "invisible" layer of security, some people argue it actually works better than the visible ones but who knows. It was an interesting job indeed, I took my wife in with me a few times when I was there all by myself in the evening and showed her some really cool stuff with these cameras. It was kind of cool pointing at the sky and watching a bird fly with these(or a car driving by). I'm not allowed to talk about most of it but at times I had hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment in my hands at once. Some of them were even used to detect SARS.

[IAMX 3,055]

10 minutes ago, OriZ said:

The way I see it - It would make it alot easier to leave the innocent people alone if the sympathizers got more attention. I am sure there are people undercover there as well - it's an "invisible" layer of security, some people argue it actually works better than the visible ones but who knows. It was an interesting job indeed, I took my wife in with me a few times when I was there all by myself in the evening and showed her some really cool stuff with these cameras. It was kind of cool pointing at the sky and watching a bird fly with these(or a car driving by). I'm not allowed to talk about most of it but at times I had hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment in my hands at once. Some of them were even used to detect SARS.

Take a look at the lefts reaction.. for example:

 

- PersonA finds suspicious person (PersonB) sitting in parking lot in their vehicle at odd hours of the day/night

- PersonA calls police on PersonB to see what they're doing

- Police find out PersonB isn't doing anything other than reading a book in their car

- PersonB reports this to media, media makes story of it

- Leftists are outraged that police are wasting their time following up on suspicious complaint, lodge attack against police and PersonA suggesting PersonB's rights are being violated/PersonA is racist/bigoted/whatever

 

What really needs to change the most is how much authorities care about leftist political correctness. Knowledge of who suspects are isn't so much the problem as we can see in the vast majority of cases -- the concern of backlash preventing something being done about it is, whether it be in the form of surveillance, travel bans, or amending laws to incarcerate individuals who are clearly planning something for a much longer period. As mentioned previously, the left are the ones who stand in the way of reasonable changes.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2017 by IAMX

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

Great step in the right direction. Lets hope the good side of the force rises up and drowns out the dark side of the force. Kudos to the Imans

 

Third London attacker named as imams refuse to perform funeral rites

 

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/06/06/third-london-attacker-named-as-imams-refuse-to-perform-funeral-rites.html