Marriage ceremony in US, without legal paperwork filed

[Shauneg 763]

Your father is the "solemnizer", do you want him to do something illegal?

Was just about to say that and the point I was making with the reference to the law.

[yuna628 9,840]

First of all I want to thank everyone here for responding to my issue. This response is beyond anything I could have possibly imagined when first posting and I am very grateful for your time.

Initial clarifications: Marriage licensed is not filed- the ceremony was performed by my Father, a retired Minister, so we are sure on this point. Yes, simple courthouse procedure will of course need to be done when (/if!) we get to that point. That's what I was intending to get across by noting that we would get another license- sorry if I was not clear as I could have been on all of these and more.

I will next need to respond to those who have taken the occasion to call me a liar.

I was very explicit in my post- we had a marriage ceremony in all good faith because of what we were being told by the USCIS on their website re: the K3 visa. As posters on this very thread have noted, this posted information is, at a minimum, wildly inaccurate (Maria&Seve: "Well the K3 doesn't exist anymore").

Sure, I should have researched the the K3 visa on many sites (and several different kinds of sites), found the page on the USCIS https://www.uscis.gov/family/family-us-citizens/k3-k4-visa/k-3k-4-nonimmigrant-visas ...and immediately understood- oh, obviously all this information on this government website that I have been directed to is absolutely useless and misleading.

Shame on me. Obviously "it is your fault for not researching it enough." People being told one thing here and another thing there- yep, first step is to blame the people asking the question.

Clearly. And thank you for your brilliant contribution.

Then on being told, for the first time, in free content on a site making money from helping people with this perfectly clear and straight forward process that I am too stupid and dishonest to navigate my way through, that yes it is still listed, promoted, directed to, people still are taking money to help you file it... but uh, it doesn't mean anything anymore, I had to scramble to figure out what to do next.

Since the certificate had not been filed and since one site stated unequivocally (and some of the posters on this thread have pretty strongly indicated) that ceremony and legal registration are two completely separate things and specifically that the USCIS does not care at all about ceremonies only the legal registration (and since that logically makes sense to me- thus the requirement to return the license for legal registration as a final step to differentiate it from "just" a ceremony) I said fine, we'll just let people know that our ceremony stated we loved each other, we were committed to each other, and we are ready to share our lives together and we could wait for the official documentation at a time when the USCIS would, apparently, prefer that it occur.

At no time did we have ANY intention to lie to ANYONE- thus the dang post out in the dang open here on this forum, our not filing ANYTHING while I TRY and get a straight answer from SOMEONE and the multitudinous pictures we shared from the ceremony on social media, etc., etc., etc.

Please do NOT pretend that this is some kind of cut and dried issue. Please do NOT insult either myself or my wife or our integrity. Please, the few of you who were like this, get the hell of your high horse and LOOK AT THE ORIGINAL POST. We have been told a great variety of things INCLUDING IN THIS THREAD! And we are simply TRYING to get some kind of reliable information as to what the heck is going on. We will not even be OPEN to any kind of dishonest or unethical way to proceed even if people think it would work.

That is as kindly as I can (or will) respond to people unjustifiably calling me a liar.

Now to the issue at hand. It sounds like there is no way to be sure what the USCIS will do since there seems to be no clear definition of what they view as a "marriage." Interesting cultural arguments aside, I am surprised that this is so with an agency that would seem to have a great need to be explicit on this point. Again, since neither of us have any intention whatsoever of doing anything other than being perfectly open (nor did the original post give anyone reason to jump to that conclusion, in my opinion), it sounds like that is a question that needs a clear answer.

[it is very confusing to me because I see the whole point of legal registration as a way to prevent people from just saying, “Yeah, ok, we're married now,” and start to enjoy the legal benefits of marriage without being legally bound to the obligations that come with it. That seems to offer a clear demarcation and a sensible one at that. While we are thrilled we were able to give our loving commitment to each other before family and friends, we have no intentions of enjoying the legal benefits of marriage until we are legally bound by the obligations that come with it.]

It further sounds like a clear answer may be very difficult to obtain (at least) since, as several have pointed out, there is apparently a great deal of discretion of the individual interviewer as to how to view all this (how sure are people of this?)

So my first FU question is: is there a way to simply get a clear, straight answer from the USCIS? I have been told that calling their number is simply useless (very interesting thread here on that and other issues: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/220499-k-1-petition-information/ “OK, why can't we get through to you? The 1-800 line is useless. Those are contract employees and they are trained to select answers from a menu of 14 answers. They pick which one is best for your question. “). Are there other ways that people here have experience with reliably cutting through conflicting information with the USCIS? We are fully intending to follow the rules- gee, would it be great if it was at all clear what those are.

My second FU question is: some are saying that the CR-1 does not take a LOT longer to process. I am getting used to the idea that 10 different answers on these questions will contain 10 different sets of data... but I am seeing elsewhere that the difference is more than double- so like 5-7 months for K1, 13-16 months for CR-1. We were still considering this as it sounds like she would be able to work sooner with the CR-1. But folks, while every couple is different- I'm sorry, but for sure with us, double the time apart is no small thing. Maybe that is partly due to me being 51 and my wife being in her forties and this being a first marriage for both, don't know; but wow is that tough for us. We can do it, yes- but not a small thing, folks.

As to the post about it being "illegal" to not turn your marriage license in- uh, I think that needs to be reread? I am sure that if a couple WANTS it to be turned in, it is indeed illegal for a “recorder” or an “officer” to impede the process. That just does not sound at all like a couple that doesn't turn in the paperwork is committing some kind of crime. Not any kind of lawyer, so obviously could be wrong on that point- anyone with more info on this (where exactly does the quote come from?).

Alright, huge post, I am sorry for that. And again I am grateful for all replies and also again I will confront those that I feel are unjust.

Okay, that's a lot of things to respond to but I'll see if this can clarify for you:

You said you have a marriage license, you had a ceremony performed by a retired minister relation, and you have not filed the paperwork back at the courthouse. Right now, you are in a limbo state of being unmarried and married at the same time. In the eyes of the state, you are legally married but not certified as such until the paperwork is returned or when the clerk views it and deems it certified, but fair warning in the eyes of the USCIS a CO may look upon such a thing with grave suspicion. This is why persons may be denied a K1 even if they have performed a 'symbolic ceremony' only. If it were me, even if the paperwork had not been returned to the clerk of the court, if I swore an oath to the clerk to obtain the document, and had it recorded that I obtained the document, and that I had the ceremony, and the document was then signed and dated - it is merely a formality to return it to obtain the official marriage certificate.. it's all part of a process of legalization, but each step is critical and no less binding. I would believe that it falls under the term of solemnizing, and that once done - undoing it (tearing up the document or forgetting that it happened) would have some consequences in addition to failing for the recorder (either the minister or you) to not return it to the clerk. This would be a matter for the clerk of the court to determine, so it may be prudent to make an inquiry there.

I would strongly urge seeing as you have your toes in the water, as it were, but have yet to put down the palms of your feet. That you make it certified.

From there you merely must just determine two options.

Does she want to stay and remain with you right now, unable to leave until the paperwork is sorted out regarding her legality? If so, file for adjustment of status and wait in line for a green card. You can also apply for an EAD/AP, the wait is 90 days but it's free if it's put in with the adjustment paperwork.

Or do you want to spend time apart (you can still visit) and go through the spousal visa process. She goes back to her own country, and the paperwork is filed. I know you will receive conflicting answers but I am genuinely and honestly saying to you that yes the spousal visa process does take quite a while around a year - far longer than a K1. But for right now, I'd very much urge you to forget the K1 idea. You are technically limbo married, merely just a formality away from being official. There will be also many that will say a K1 is quicker, and it is for now - I'd say on average around 6-9 months give or take (consulates may vary once that process has begun). Though you may see in my and others cases it was not so quick at all. That was because it used to be very backlogged, and once again things have slowed down a bit. So a K1 process that used to be faster for many people is actually very much slower now. You can never exactly give a statistical answer that will satisfy everyone, because things happen. Papers go missing, delays happen, AP can happen, or the USCIS can screw people over... so the answer will only be based on experiences with an approx. average.

You will not get any straight answers from the USCIS, and you will very rarely ever get any remarkable or true answers at all. It's most likely intended to be that way. But the rules are straightforward and clear - the couple must be free to marry for a K1 and must not have any question to that in an ambiguous way.

I know that you will say the wait is difficult, and I earnestly say I *know* it is hard. All of us trying to help you know that it is hard. Sometimes nearly unbearable.. but the government cares about these things very little. The good part about the spousal visa is that once approved and she's back in the states she'll have the green card without having even more to go through (that a K1 would have to). It also means both of you can spend the time preparing things financially by saving up, and she can ensure everything back home is sorted before she goes (if she hasn't already).

That's really the gist of it. I spent 10+ years apart from my love... not all of it by choice, and it was agonizing. No it is not a small thing indeed, but it is something both of you have to decide if you wish to endure. The options are viable as mentioned above, but I would advise to not attempt a K1. Sacrifices are difficult but we have to do what we must. Immigration is a serious thing and must be handled carefully. You are aware of that of course.. once everything is completed and there is no more burden or being apart, then you will be able to put it all past you and move on with life together.

Marriage is a happy occasion, move on as married, do the right thing, and turn to the next big choice you both have to make.

Edited August 16, 2016 by yuna628

[thomahal 6]

Now that you've typed your novella, and got all of your righteous indignation off your chest, pay attention. You are married. You yourself call the lady in question your wife. If you would like to run the risk of trying your shenanigans out on the USCIS, knock yourself out. Be aware, you may create a longer separation than you hope by trying what you are suggesting.

If you come on to a public forum, and ask your questions, you may get answers that you do not like. Just because you don't like them, doesn't make them wrong. You are misunderstanding the intent of the people who took the time to respond to you. No one is attacking you. People are trying to help you. Just because you believe other websites have lied to you, or confused you, or you feel aggrieved because you failed to do due diligence, don't expect people on VJ to instruct you on how to circumvent the rules. No one is going to hand you validation for that. Not on VJ.

I am not sure what you think your age has to do with anything. My husband and I were 56 and 58, are you suggesting we should have had special consideration because our advanced years meant the potential of a shorted time together? Seriously? I would like to have known that, really, having those nearly two years of my life held hostage by the government. Would have been nice to get that time back, and get a chance to enjoy finally being together in the same country, instead of standing over my husband's hospital bed, hoping an organ donor would magically appear.

You are married. File for the correct Visa, which is a CR-1.

Now that you've typed your novella, and got all of your righteous indignation off your chest, pay attention. Oh, ok, the AUTHORITY is about to speak, let me quiet myself to receive the wisdom from on High. You are married. SEE, if I had JUST realized that you, the Great Decider were the one to decide complicated questions on marital law versus the needs and views of the USCIS, I could have saved myself SO much trouble!!! You yourself call the lady in question your wife. Yes, but the law does not. Thus the issue that you have gloriously missed utterly and completely, it appears. If you would like to run the risk of trying your shenanigans (ie asking questions, requesting information on a forum devoted to the subject– oh the shenanigans!) out on the USCIS, knock yourself out. Be aware, you may create a longer separation than you hope by trying what you are suggesting. Uh, that is kinda what I am trying to determine- Nothing has been filed because I want to know what USCIS wants me to do- oddly I MIGHT not take oh Great Poohbah's sacred word for it, but that is kinda the whole point of the entire thread.

If you come on to a public forum, and ask your questions, you may get answers that you do not like. And you might get responses back you don't like. Just because you don't like them, doesn't make them wrong. Totally agree and have stated that I appreciate the time from everyone, even you. You are misunderstanding the intent of the people who took the time to respond to you. No one is attacking you. Several instances of accusations of “fraud” “lying” and others were made- others have been very helpful. People are trying to help you. Just because you believe other websites have lied to you, or confused you, or you feel aggrieved because you failed to do due diligence, don't expect people on VJ to instruct you on how to circumvent the rules. NOBODY is asking that, nobody ever did. Please quote where anyone ever did anything like this. It was EXPLICITLY stated that we are not interested in anything circumventing anything. AGAIN the question is what would the USCIS see as circumventing and what would they not. If you HONESTLY want to put forward the argument that it is not ok to call out both governmental and private sites for doling out misinformation, feel free. No one is going to hand you validation for that. Not on VJ. Is there a trumpet emoji?

I am not sure what you think your age has to do with anything. My husband and I were 56 and 58, are you suggesting we should have had special consideration because our advanced years meant the potential of a shorted time together? Seriously? I would like to have known that, really, having those nearly two years of my life held hostage by the government. Would have been nice to get that time back, and get a chance to enjoy finally being together in the same country, instead of standing over my husband's hospital bed, hoping an organ donor would magically appear. Especially as a nurse, I am very sorry to hear that you and your husband went through that. In no way shape or form am I asking for any kind of special treatment whatsoever. I am asking what are the rules are in the situation where there is no legal marriage but we did have a ceremony. If you are unable to follow that, please feel free to not help anymore. If you reread the words you are referring to, it was simply admitting that if there is a kosher way to use the K1 that it would be a big, rather than a small, thing to us.

You are married. Should there be trumpets blasting at this point? File for the correct Visa, which is a CR-1. If that is the correct visa ACCORDING TO THE USCIS and not just you, I will indeed follow your pronouncement from on High.

reason for edit: Second attempt to make my responses red to help ease following along.

Edited August 16, 2016 by thomahal

[cdneh 3,112]

Now that you've typed your novella, and got all of your righteous indignation off your chest, pay attention. Oh, ok, the AUTHORITY is about to speak, let me quiet myself to receive the wisdom from on High. You are married. SEE, if I had JUST realized that you, the Great Decider were the one to decide complicated questions on marital law versus the needs and views of the USCIS, I could have saved myself SO much trouble!!! You yourself call the lady in question your wife. Yes, but the law does not. Thus the issue that you have gloriously missed utterly and completely, it appears. If you would like to run the risk of trying your shenanigans (ie asking questions, requesting information on a forum devoted to the subject– oh the shenanigans!) out on the USCIS, knock yourself out. Be aware, you may create a longer separation than you hope by trying what you are suggesting. Uh, that is kinda what I am trying to determine- Nothing has been filed because I want to know what USCIS wants me to do- oddly I MIGHT not take oh Great Poohbah's sacred word for it, but that is kinda the whole point of the entire thread.

If you come on to a public forum, and ask your questions, you may get answers that you do not like. And you might get responses back you don't like. Just because you don't like them, doesn't make them wrong. Totally agree and have stated that I appreciate the time from everyone, even you. You are misunderstanding the intent of the people who took the time to respond to you. No one is attacking you. Several instances of accusations of “fraud” “lying” and others were made- others have been very helpful. People are trying to help you. Just because you believe other websites have lied to you, or confused you, or you feel aggrieved because you failed to do due diligence, don't expect people on VJ to instruct you on how to circumvent the rules. NOBODY is asking that, nobody ever did. Please quote where anyone ever did anything like this. It was EXPLICITLY stated that we are not interested in anything circumventing anything. AGAIN the question is what would the USCIS see as circumventing and what would they not. If you HONESTLY want to put forward the argument that it is not ok to call out both governmental and private sites for doling out misinformation, feel free. No one is going to hand you validation for that. Not on VJ. Is there a trumpet emoji?

I am not sure what you think your age has to do with anything. My husband and I were 56 and 58, are you suggesting we should have had special consideration because our advanced years meant the potential of a shorted time together? Seriously? I would like to have known that, really, having those nearly two years of my life held hostage by the government. Would have been nice to get that time back, and get a chance to enjoy finally being together in the same country, instead of standing over my husband's hospital bed, hoping an organ donor would magically appear. Especially as a nurse, I am very sorry to hear that you and your husband went through that. In no way shape or form am I asking for any kind of special treatment whatsoever. I am asking what are the rules are in the situation where there is no legal marriage but we did have a ceremony. If you are unable to follow that, please feel free to not help anymore. If you reread the words you are referring to, it was simply admitting that if there is a kosher way to use the K1 that it would be a big, rather than a small, thing to us.

You are married. Should there be trumpets blasting at this point? File for the correct Visa, which is a CR-1. If that is the correct visa ACCORDING TO THE USCIS and not just you, I will indeed follow your pronouncement from on High.

reason for edit: Second attempt to make my responses red to help ease following along.

Most impressive. You are still married. File for the correct visa.

[Pennycat 880]

Ok. Wow. So, we all understand that you're frustrated. I'm not sure who you think is posting here but, we've all been dealing with USCIS for a while, years even, and certainly longer than you have. A lot of people here fell into the same trap you have--thinking that the K3 is an actual option based on USCIS's site. A lot of us have made a lot of decisions about on logistics and timing based on things on USCIS's site and *especially* calling them. If you take NOTHING else from this thread, please understand that the people on the phone are useless and will give you the wrong answer to anything other than a simple status update (that you can perform yourself) and there is no accountability for them doing so. Unless you get to Tier 2 on the phone, those people are working off the public site and have less experience with USCIS than your average Visajourney member.

The K3 was developed when spouse visas were taking 2 years or more. It was to let the spouse wait in the US. Now, the spouse visas are "beating" the K3s out of Step 1 (USCIS petition) to Step 2 of the process (National Visa Center-- the State Department in the US) and are closed there, and they proceed with the CR1. So you can apply for it, but it's not likely you'll get it, because the CR1 is both superior and faster. They don't say that on their website because, welcome to hell (and also because in theory it's possible that the spouse visa petitons will start to take longer to get out of USCIS and also because the decision to close the petition is STATE'S decision, not USCIS's). Saying that the K3 functionally does not exist is not "wildly inaccurate", it's actually the most correct thing you've been told about it to date.

What's going to happen if you go forward with what you've proposed, is that she's going to have to lie by omission (call you fiancé) and quite possibly avoid direct questions ("when and where are you planning your wedding". You can say you're planning a courthouse wedding but then if asked about why no family in attendance she'll have to make something up about wanting privacy or you being estranged or whatever). It's unlikely to end well.

I'm sorry this happened. Yes their website should be more accurate. No you should not have to research something to death on a third party site before doing anything but seriously that is how this agency rolls. People here are attempting to keep you from digging yourself into a hole that you may not be able to dig out of.

[thomahal 6]

yuna628: Thank you so much for your very thoughtful and helpful reply. One of the critical things you said, to me, is "But the rules are straightforward and clear - the couple must be free to marry for a K1 and must not have any question to that in an ambiguous way." We are perfectly free to marry if the license is allowed to lapse, as I understand it (though you are absolutely correct that I need to check this with the Recorder office, themselves). BUT that second part, about the ambiguity (especially in the eyes of a government agency that it sounds like is never going to be nailed down to a clear answer), is very important. There may be no way to get a straightforward response about whether they see this as ambiguous OR not. If that is what I come away from this forum with, that is indeed what will probably decide it for us- and that will be very valuable to us, indeed. Thank you very much for your input. I will be discussing this with, ready for it, my wife very soon.

[thomahal 6]

CatherineA That was some incredibly good information, wonderfully written- thank you so much.

What I was saying was "wildly inaccurate" was the indication from other websites, including the USCIS, that the K3 was still a viable option, not the very good characterization of it being functionally inactive. Sorry if I did not write that part very well.

Your explanation of WHY it is no longer viable was great- I had heard bits and pieces about this elsewhere, but it is great to have some SENSE mixed in with what can seem so frustratingly arbitrary at times, thanks.

I might try to call the USCIS, basically just to say that I tried it (?). The info about the layers there will be very useful in any case.

I was considering adding in pictures from our ceremony as evidence that our relationship was bona fide instead of hiding it in any way, shape, or form- much less asking my wife to in any way say anything other than what is completely honest. It sounds like there is more and more feedback that the USCIS will at least possibly (maybe very possibly) instead see it as reason to kick into bureaucratic overdrive. I am very grateful for this feedback.

You know, the thing is, we did not get married as a visa tactic . We wanted to make the commitment. So if this sends us down one path rather than another as far as the paperwork is concerned, then so be it. I saw other posts that were like, oh it's just a little more time, etc. I did want to admit that for us, it is a big deal. But there are several advantages to the CR-1 and if we have to do that, then we can.

I will repeat my very best wishes to everyone with all their cases. If I am able to add anything then I will certainly want to do that- although my case is... uh, kinda unusual

I appreciate your response and am very happy to respond in kind. Kind of a pattern with me. And it will remain so.

[thomahal 6]

Was just about to say that and the point I was making with the reference to the law.

That did occur to me as well, yes. But again, my Dad married people for 62 years- mine was on the SAME DAY as his very first wedding 62 years ago and will pretty well for sure be his last. I am going to go with 62 years of experience, all things being equal.

NOW, we'll see if all things are equal tomorrow after my phone call .

[EM_Vandaveer 2,426]

Is your wife still in the US or has she left already? It was not quite clear from your first post.

If she's still here, you can go through the process without being apart at all.

File the marriage certificate and file for AOS.

Again, this only works if she's still in the US.

That did occur to me as well, yes. But again, my Dad married people for 62 years- mine was on the SAME DAY as his very first wedding 62 years ago and will pretty well for sure be his last. I am going to go with 62 years of experience, all things being equal.

NOW, we'll see if all things are equal tomorrow after my phone call .

In his 62 years of experience, how many times did he perform the ceremony and then NOT file the marriage license with the county clerk?

[Pennycat 880]

CatherineA That was some incredibly good information, wonderfully written- thank you so much.

What I was saying was "wildly inaccurate" was the indication from other websites, including the USCIS, that the K3 was still a viable option, not the very good characterization of it being functionally inactive. Sorry if I did not write that part very well.

Your explanation of WHY it is no longer viable was great- I had heard bits and pieces about this elsewhere, but it is great to have some SENSE mixed in with what can seem so frustratingly arbitrary at times, thanks.

I might try to call the USCIS, basically just to say that I tried it (?). The info about the layers there will be very useful in any case.

I was considering adding in pictures from our ceremony as evidence that our relationship was bona fide instead of hiding it in any way, shape, or form- much less asking my wife to in any way say anything other than what is completely honest. It sounds like there is more and more feedback that the USCIS will at least possibly (maybe very possibly) instead see it as reason to kick into bureaucratic overdrive. I am very grateful for this feedback.

You know, the thing is, we did not get married as a visa tactic . We wanted to make the commitment. So if this sends us down one path rather than another as far as the paperwork is concerned, then so be it. I saw other posts that were like, oh it's just a little more time, etc. I did want to admit that for us, it is a big deal. But there are several advantages to the CR-1 and if we have to do that, then we can.

I will repeat my very best wishes to everyone with all their cases. If I am able to add anything then I will certainly want to do that- although my case is... uh, kinda unusual

I appreciate your response and am very happy to respond in kind. Kind of a pattern with me. And it will remain so.

I didn't mean to imply that you got married for the visa, I mean that deciding to apply for the K3 or thinking that the K3 was actually an option is what I meant by making logistic decisions (or in your case having her leave the country after marriage thinking the K3 would keep your separation brief).

Anyway, what you're getting here really is your only safe and legal option. You can try for the K1 and plead your case but here's the issue with that...how are you intending to prove a negative? Anyone can go in with wedding photos and claim that the licence was never registered.

It's not even bureaucratic overdrive. It makes total sense if you realize that the spouse visa takes longer because they land with a green card and that process (permanent residency) takes longer than a non immigrant visa does. K1s are technically non immigrants and apply for permanent residency once in country. The government gets another chance to say "no". Not so for spouses, which is why it takes longer and which is also why it takes longer to approve them. The k3 was a hybrid of the two whose usefulness has lapsed. I'm not sure what the danger is in letting in an actually married person in as a K1 instead of CR1 but when there's a rule you can't totally figure out, it's usually because someone has pulled some shady stuff in the past.

Either way, it's fairly clear that this is your most correct route and is safest anyway because it is entirely likely that through very simple questioning they'll think there is a distinct possibility that you're already married and are hiding that fact to buy yourselves a few months/ pull whatever shenanigans this whole policy was put into place to stop. So, if (when?) the K1 fails, you'll have wasted about $600 in fees ($345 for I-129f, $270 or so for K1 visa interview) and what certain you'd spent on medicals ($300 on average) and 5+ months, only to have to (a) figure out how to get fully legally married and (b) start again with the CR1 visa which is more money ($900? Plus more medicals?) And time (12 ish months).

And they will ask. They have interview styles to naturally uncover stuff like hidden marriages. We hit on the fact we'd had an engagement party (the answer to if our families had met) and her eyebrows nearly shot off the top of her head asking "what KIND of party". And this is in Costa Rica which does not have any culturally significant engagement ceremonies that can "count" as bring "too married"-- it's a culturally Catholic country with strong separation of church and state (stronger than US actually). She was digging for a wedding ceremony, which is additionally crazy because Costa Rica does have a way to "prove the negative"-- they have a single certificate. They take this seriously and just about the only way out of it would be to lie or actively conceal the truth, neither of which is going to get you a visa.

[Pennycat 880]

Meant to add: if you're going to insist on calling someone, it would be State in this case. As I said before, USCIS will accept and process the petition for K3 (i-129f?) and it is State Department's National Visa Center who will close it. I would be shocked if the USCIS misinformation line folks (a) know this to begin with (b) will tell you what another agency's process is.

I can't believe I'm going to recommend looking at USCIS's "official" processing times (they are also minimally useful. Check out the "as of" date. Always 6 to 10 weeks out of date. Also when months are listed it means they are processing within that time period NOT how long they actually take). Either way, check them out for all the service centers. The processing times for I-130 (petition for alien relative- the spouse visa) and I-129f for K3s is the same. That's why when State gets theven, they shut down the one that is the inferior, non immigrant visa. But as far as USCIS is concerned, they still do them. It's State that doesn't (often).

Word on processing times: USCIS is still only step 1. Step 2 is NVC Step 4 is Embassy. The 12 months guess is the overall average of the entire process. Don't get misled by the USCIS only processing times.

https://egov.uscis.gov/cris/processTimesDisplayInit.do

[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

Immigration can be a rocky path to follow. There are people that file for a K3 and think the children are coming as K4's only to get caught late in the process and find they have to file ( and pay for ) additional I130's for the kids. Many of the posters on this thread have been around for here for over a decade and we have seen all sorts of snags in the immigration process. A popular one for the Su Saharan is that the couple do a traditional engagement where the groom to be visits the brides famly with specific gifts and food and wine. The gifts are referred to as bride price. Because of this ceramony many a couple have been denied K1's but they can't file a CR1 because they aren't married. Pictures posted online come up Did either of you post anything to facebook ? ( forget making it private or deleting it that only affects what the public can see ) One couple years ago got denied because of a picture of her in a wedding dress and some chat in the same email to him ( neither had passed the email on or included it in evidence ) Will something like this happen to you, probably not, but we have seen the insanity happen and really think you should know. The USCIS people that monitor this site browse topics for headers that look like people are doing something shady and yours " marriage ceremony in US without legal paperwork " is a real attention getter.

[EM_Vandaveer 2,426]

This is specific to Missouri:

"The license must be picked up prior to the marriage ceremony. The person performing the ceremony must have the license prior to the ceremony.

The person performing the marriage ceremony shall return the license to the issuing Recorder of Deeds within 15 days.

If a marriage ceremony does not occur, the license shall be void after thirty days from the date of issuance."

In your case the ceremony DID occur. You can't just pretend it didn't. You got married. You should return the license.

[Ash.1101 1,756]

Shoot, there are people here who aren't married AT ALL and the CO ends up thinking they're married because they said "wife" or have a picture from something that looks like a wedding.




And I agree with the others, if you applied for a license with the county, and you received a license from the county, there is a license number on it and they CAN find out if you got married or not because there will either be a license completed in their system or no license at all.


I do not recommend trying to skirt anything with immigration, they could deny you things based on what they THINK, and use THEIR own discretion. Even if you say "We're not married" a thousand times, and they have a FEELING you are, they'll kick you back.

There are legitimate couples on here who have done the right thing and done everything correctly, only to get told their relationship is either fake, or that they're married already, or not legit enough because that's what the CO thinks, REGARDLESS of what proof they have.

[TBoneTX 47,100]

OP, the legal-immigration process thrives on the truth, at every step.

You have USCIS (petition phase).

You have the consular interview (visa-application phase).

Here is what you can/cannot / should/should not do:

1. Your wife must not return to the U.S. and enter with the purpose of immigrating & adjusting status.

2. You should not think that "pulling a marriage license" will go unnoticed throughout this process.

3. Therefore, whether you can file the I-129F for a K-1 visa is irrelevant: you should not.

One of the very few requirements for filing the I-129F (for a K-1) is that you are free to marry and will do so within 90 days of the beneficiary's entry into the United States. You are NOT now free to marry, because the license has been pulled and there is record of that.

Let's say that you filed the I-129F (as "single" individuals) and somehow got past the USCIS petition stage and faced the consular phase. The consulate in New Zealand has multiple ways of sniffing out attempts to evade the straightforward legal process (as just one example, making one phone call to the recording authorities in your state). If your case is tainted in any way, you could be slapped with a Material Misrepresentation charge, with devastating repercussions.

As stated, the K-3 is an obsolete visa. The CR-1 visa is superior to the K-3, and in fact it's superior to the K-1. You're in even better shape than most of us here, because New Zealand is a Visa Waiver Program (VWP) country, and your wife can visit you. (See the "Yes, You Can Visit" thread in the CR-1 Process forum here.)

Therefore, turn in the marriage license, get multiple copies of your marriage certificate (you'll need them), file the I-130 petition, and have a clear conscience. Avoid considering and attempting any monkeyshines, because -- once found out -- the taint will ruin both your lives.