Steps to protect yourself

[sarah and hicham 3]

Dave likes to make lists, that's ok that works for some people. I usually make grocery lists however and not lists reminding me hot to treat my husband.

[kontumdiary 0]

Money is not all that is important in life, and that I believe we all know. But money give you security, and money gives you independence. And Im sorry, but we’ve heard enough stories about battered wives, about controlling husbands, and so many other nasty things that have happened to the most loving couples, those you can never imagine would do things like that.

I came to this country because I fell in love with a man, and I was certain I wanted to be with him, and that’s why I made the choice, and took the risk to leave ABSOLUTELY everything behind to come here and be with him, and I have not regretted it one bit (just in case you are wondering). But talking about money, and settling certain things before hand, gave me security and assurance that in the possibility of things not working out, I would still have be financially independent to at least have the money to buy a ticket to go home. Talking about money and all other topics that aren’t as nice BEFORE making the decision of coming here, made the decision making process easier.

I don’t think I settled the future of my relationship by talking about the what ifs. I was taking a risk and I was entitled to have doubts, and in grown up and mature relationships that’s what you do, you TALK and COMMUNICATE the good and the bad, cause honey, just a new’s break… life is not all peaches and creams… and financial stress is among the first causes of divorce in these times. SO let’s talk again in 5-10 years and see where we are… I hope you are still with your SO and that by avoiding talking about defeatists topics hasn’t taken a toll in your relationship.

<br>

rob&ana, you make perfect sense to me. Thanks for your viewpoint(s).

kontumdiary

To each, his/her own.

Bottom line, mature marriage decisions are about trust. If you are contemplating these issues, you have some introspective searching to do.

If money is that freaking important in your life, don't get married. Otherwise, consider that you are making the wrong choice.

Let's chat again in 5-10 years, those that are 100% sure about their SO will prevail.

If money issues are in the forefront, your relationship will likely fail. He11, you are already planning for it.

William33,

Don't make the mistake of thinking that prenuptial agreements only restrict access to assets for one party. Sometimes, dependent upon how they are structured, a prenup can offer assets to one party that might otherwise not be part of the distribution by a local court.

Money is not all that is important in life, and that I believe we all know. But money give you security, and money gives you independence. And Im sorry, but we’ve heard enough stories about battered wives, about controlling husbands, and so many other nasty things that have happened to the most loving couples, those you can never imagine would do things like that.

I came to this country because I fell in love with a man, and I was certain I wanted to be with him, and that’s why I made the choice, and took the risk to leave ABSOLUTELY everything behind to come here and be with him, and I have not regretted it one bit (just in case you are wondering). But talking about money, and settling certain things before hand, gave me security and assurance that in the possibility of things not working out, I would still have be financially independent to at least have the money to buy a ticket to go home. Talking about money and all other topics that aren’t as nice BEFORE making the decision of coming here, made the decision making process easier.

I don’t think I settled the future of my relationship by talking about the what ifs. I was taking a risk and I was entitled to have doubts, and in grown up and mature relationships that’s what you do, you TALK and COMMUNICATE the good and the bad, cause honey, just a new’s break… life is not all peaches and creams… and financial stress is among the first causes of divorce in these times. SO let’s talk again in 5-10 years and see where we are… I hope you are still with your SO and that by avoiding talking about defeatists topics hasn’t taken a toll in your relationship.

Edited December 30, 2006 by kontumdiary

[maggieNomar 0]

Good thoughts everyone...I hadn't thought about the proof of co-mingling issue, but I did mean to have at least ONE separate account. I guess it is all about balance and what both parties are comfortable with. I am shocked that we haven't had any nay-sayers yet. Thought this might become a heated topic.

Thanks for your thoughts.

I thought the one about allowing someone to be a close part of your life was great. I have seen several people claiming abuse on this board alone. I think it's a shame and people should be held accountable for their fraud.

[eclowjpd 0]

Much depends upon the marriage law in your state. In my state, assets, for the most part, assets that one has prior to the marriage remains with that person if divorcing.

Until which time you are comfortable, I recommend that you keep your assets in your name only. Do not co-mingle pre-marital assets with the new spouse, including a home that you own, investments etc.

If you have your pay, income etc, going into an account for household expenses, or a joint account. Don't move any money from these accounts or your pay etc., to any accounts that are just in your name, such as investments.

I was almost dupped. Fortunately, I kept my house in my name and all of my assets. My lawyer said the smartest thing I did was I never moved any income or money from checking accounts into my investement accounts. Had I done this the investment account would have become marital asset.

[G&C 0]

Well, this is an interesting thread, and in my view an important topic.

Just because we meet someone we are sure about, does not mean we (the USCs) will beat the 50% odds that our marriage will not end before one of us dies.

What this means is, you should think long and hard about a pre-nuptial (PN) agreement. While some people say they have nothing now, or the laws of the state they live in are (or are not) community, this does not mean you can predict the future. Which means if the laws of the state you live in change or if you move, you can create a situation for which you are not prepared.

There are nine community property states: Arizona, California, Idaho, Louisiana, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Washington and Wisconsin (WI is a quasi-community property which to me it actually isn't!). In these jurisdictions property acquired prior to the marriage stays with the party who acquired it. Certain jurisdictions exclude property that comes into the marriage by gift and inheritance. Some community property states allow equitable distribution where justice is served. These rules vary state to state and are fraught with exceptions.

So if there is ANY chance you may live in another state or country or if you think your state's laws may change, you need a PN. Which means you all need one.

So in the example below, you don't need to keep anything separate as long as you can prove you brought it to the "community" . And if you move, the state you are in will not care where you are married, only where you are if the marriage ends. Having said this, separate property brought to the marriage can remain "yours" after the marriage but the increase in value of that property will most likely be split!

FYI, my fiance and I will be putting everything together that makes practical sense (i.e, if it creates a convenience and doesn't cost too much for that convenience) because keeping it apart doesn't add any value or protection if that is what some of you are thinking.

Having said that, we do have PN (about 60 pages and $2,500 because someone will ask) which was signed in her lawyer's office by both of us at the same time.

My advice would not be to write-up a PN on your own. Yes there is an investment, but it certainly creates much needed discussion. We had no disagreements over what we thought was practical, and if you have any disagreement the two of you are probably not suitable for each other.

In fact, I have always thought an interesting opener when meeting someone you may be interested in was "so if you ever got married would you sign a PN?" and if the answer is no then it would be on to the next person. I never used this though!

*** I AM NOT A LAWYER ***

Much depends upon the marriage law in your state. In my state, assets, for the most part, assets that one has prior to the marriage remains with that person if divorcing.

Until which time you are comfortable, I recommend that you keep your assets in your name only. Do not co-mingle pre-marital assets with the new spouse, including a home that you own, investments etc.

If you have your pay, income etc, going into an account for household expenses, or a joint account. Don't move any money from these accounts or your pay etc., to any accounts that are just in your name, such as investments.

I was almost dupped. Fortunately, I kept my house in my name and all of my assets. My lawyer said the smartest thing I did was I never moved any income or money from checking accounts into my investement accounts. Had I done this the investment account would have become marital asset.

[sjoefl01 1]

[edit] Marriage success statistics

The United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) reports that "...marriages arranged through these services would appear to have a lower divorce rate than the nation as a whole, fully 80 percent of these marriages having lasted over the years for which reports are available." [2] The USCIS also reports that "... mail-order bride and e-mail correspondence services result in 4,000 to 6,000 marriages between U.S. men and foreign brides each year."

Well, this is an interesting thread, and in my view an important topic.

Just because we meet someone we are sure about, does not mean we (the USCs) will beat the 50% odds that our marriage will not end before one of us dies.

What this means is, you should think long and hard about a pre-nuptial (PN) agreement. While some people say they have nothing now, or the laws of the state they live in are (or are not) community, this does not mean you can predict the future. Which means if the laws of the state you live in change or if you move, you can create a situation for which you are not prepared.

There are nine community property states: Arizona, California, Idaho, Louisiana, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Washington and Wisconsin (WI is a quasi-community property which to me it actually isn't!). In these jurisdictions property acquired prior to the marriage stays with the party who acquired it. Certain jurisdictions exclude property that comes into the marriage by gift and inheritance. Some community property states allow equitable distribution where justice is served. These rules vary state to state and are fraught with exceptions.

So if there is ANY chance you may live in another state or country or if you think your state's laws may change, you need a PN. Which means you all need one.

So in the example below, you don't need to keep anything separate as long as you can prove you brought it to the "community" . And if you move, the state you are in will not care where you are married, only where you are if the marriage ends. Having said this, separate property brought to the marriage can remain "yours" after the marriage but the increase in value of that property will most likely be split!

FYI, my fiance and I will be putting everything together that makes practical sense (i.e, if it creates a convenience and doesn't cost too much for that convenience) because keeping it apart doesn't add any value or protection if that is what some of you are thinking.

Having said that, we do have PN (about 60 pages and $2,500 because someone will ask) which was signed in her lawyer's office by both of us at the same time.

My advice would not be to write-up a PN on your own. Yes there is an investment, but it certainly creates much needed discussion. We had no disagreements over what we thought was practical, and if you have any disagreement the two of you are probably not suitable for each other.

In fact, I have always thought an interesting opener when meeting someone you may be interested in was "so if you ever got married would you sign a PN?" and if the answer is no then it would be on to the next person. I never used this though!

*** I AM NOT A LAWYER ***

Much depends upon the marriage law in your state. In my state, assets, for the most part, assets that one has prior to the marriage remains with that person if divorcing.

Until which time you are comfortable, I recommend that you keep your assets in your name only. Do not co-mingle pre-marital assets with the new spouse, including a home that you own, investments etc.

If you have your pay, income etc, going into an account for household expenses, or a joint account. Don't move any money from these accounts or your pay etc., to any accounts that are just in your name, such as investments.

I was almost dupped. Fortunately, I kept my house in my name and all of my assets. My lawyer said the smartest thing I did was I never moved any income or money from checking accounts into my investement accounts. Had I done this the investment account would have become marital asset.

[Anastassia 0]

daveandlirio,

although you might be righ for the most part, I feel sorry for you...

Why are you/have you marrying/married someone you don't trust ?

I hope this is not offending you.

Ana

[dxt7339 1]

Pre-nups and thoughts about self protection if things do not work out, are not about trust. It is about the law and consideration of children from previous life. I have a pre-nup, a will and have put most of my assets into a Trust. I do not have nor do I intent to have a joint account. I think the Pre-nup agreement, the Will and the Trust, that has specific provisions to provide for my wife I were to die and what we have agreed to if we separate is much stronger evidence of a real relationship than the names on a joint savings account or a utility bill.

[Robor007 0]

Well, this is an interesting thread, and in my view an important topic.

Just because we meet someone we are sure about, does not mean we (the USCs) will beat the 50% odds that our marriage will not end before one of us dies.

What this means is, you should think long and hard about a pre-nuptial (PN) agreement. While some people say they have nothing now, or the laws of the state they live in are (or are not) community, this does not mean you can predict the future. Which means if the laws of the state you live in change or if you move, you can create a situation for which you are not prepared.

There are nine community property states: Arizona, California, Idaho, Louisiana, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Washington and Wisconsin (WI is a quasi-community property which to me it actually isn't!). In these jurisdictions property acquired prior to the marriage stays with the party who acquired it. Certain jurisdictions exclude property that comes into the marriage by gift and inheritance. Some community property states allow equitable distribution where justice is served. These rules vary state to state and are fraught with exceptions.

So if there is ANY chance you may live in another state or country or if you think your state's laws may change, you need a PN. Which means you all need one.

So in the example below, you don't need to keep anything separate as long as you can prove you brought it to the "community" . And if you move, the state you are in will not care where you are married, only where you are if the marriage ends. Having said this, separate property brought to the marriage can remain "yours" after the marriage but the increase in value of that property will most likely be split!

Your not even married yet and you're already planning for a divorce with an easy escape route? In my opinion it's this type of 'thinking and planning for the worst' that's part of the reason that 50% of US marriages end in divorce. I read this entire thread and I saw this pre-nup idea defended by saying it's not about trust. Sorry, but I'm not buying it. If you're worried about your future spouse stealing your money then you shouldn't marry them.

FYI, my fiance and I will be putting everything together that makes practical sense (i.e, if it creates a convenience and doesn't cost too much for that convenience) because keeping it apart doesn't add any value or protection if that is what some of you are thinking.

Having said that, we do have PN (about 60 pages and $2,500 because someone will ask) which was signed in her lawyer's office by both of us at the same time.

My advice would not be to write-up a PN on your own. Yes there is an investment, but it certainly creates much needed discussion. We had no disagreements over what we thought was practical, and if you have any disagreement the two of you are probably not suitable for each other.

I will counter by saying that if you're starting a marriage off by protecting your assets from your future spouse then you are definitely not right for marriage. Period. Why even get married at all? Two people can live together without being married and then there's no need for a pre-nup at all. Of course that takes non-USC's out of the picture but that's probably a good thing given that the USC would still be responsible for the foreigner (Affidavit Of Support) even with a pre-nup.

In fact, I have always thought an interesting opener when meeting someone you may be interested in was "so if you ever got married would you sign a PN?" and if the answer is no then it would be on to the next person. I never used this though!

Wow. Just wow. I guess that thinking sort of explains everything above. FWIW, you wouldn't need to move on to the next person because you would get to the end of the line before you found a single woman that didn't walk away from you first.

[aiwntrmute 0]

Robor, Its called reality. Get over yourself and your argument doesnt hold water.

[Robor007 0]

Robor, Its called reality. Get over yourself and your argument doesnt hold water.

Yes, it is reality. People of your thinking are unsure of their fiancee/spouse and don't trust them. People like me don't need an 'escape clause'.

Edited January 18, 2007 by Robor007

[William33 110]

Robor, Its called reality. Get over yourself and your argument doesnt hold water.

Yes, it is reality. People of your thinking are unsure of their fiancee/spouse and don't trust them. People like me don't need an 'escape clause'.

Marriage is about absolute confidence in yourself, and your fiancee/spouse. Without that necessary level of trust, stay single and hug your money.

[Arazia 0]

It's kind of interesting to read the two sides of this discussion/argument. It's this whole deal of trust vs. responsibility. Are the two really mutually exclusive? To be honest, I don't know the answer to this. It just seems like a lot of people are putting money first, and their relationship second. I've seen it more than once in discussions about pre-nups, where a person will completely want to drop a relationship if the other won't do one. It really does give you an idea of where a person's priorities are. If the two individuals in a relationship both agree, and -want- to have a pre-nup, more power too them. But forcing one on someone, definitely a big no-no.

For me, a pre-nup simply isn't necessary. I have no investments or significant things needing protecting. I trust my fiance' and I'm okay with the fact that should something not work out, things will be shared out evenly.

[Nancy2015 2]

Wow, I'm glad I married a poor guy Never in my life would I even consider being with someone who felt that he needed to protect his assets from me.

[Fandango 1,439]

Frankly…

I don’t understand why people are so set against prenuptial agreements or financial protection. It is such an important topic, and not because people get duped. This is the way people should enter relationships, being totally honest and up front with their concerns, being financial or emotional. When a person CHOOSES to leave their country, they are assuming a risk, yes. But I would presume that this person has weighed thoroughly the pros and cons of moving to another country and leaving EVERYTHING behind, and I would also presume that this person has at least given some thought about the what ifs… what if it doesn’t work? What if I don’t like it there? What if I miss my family and my country so much? Do I love him so much that is it worth leaving all behind? Does he love me so much that it’s worthy of me making this sacrifice? It is a risk, and the only person responsible for taking it is the intending immigrant, so let’s not blame a guilt trip on petitioners.

Again, I am the immigrant, and even though we did not have a prenup, finances were discussed. I was a very independent with my finances, I did not have to account for any of my expenses to any one, and I did not feel like starting to do it (it just felt awkward). We took measures in order for both of us to be comfortable with the decision. We have joint accounts, but we also maintain individual accounts, and we make our own decisions when investing our own money, and we share the decisions when investing our common monies.

I don’t think the OP meant that he didn’t want to share at all with his fiancée, I think he just wanted to feel safe and protect himself, and that I see as perfectly normal.

I think prenups are a very sensitive topic...some see them as absolutely necessary, some see it as planning for failure. It's all subjective really.

But at the end of the day, the list that the OP posted TO ME seems over the top. If you're doing all that to protect yourself from someone who left his/her whole existance to be with you, there's something really telling about that.

Might as well put plastic covers over the couch, yanno?