In state tuition for Illegal immigrants?

[paojack 41]

Hi! I am writing an essay about how some states (including Colorado, where I live) have approved a bill to offer lower tuition (in-state tuition) to illegal immigrants. This means that if you are a citizen or LPR from (let's say) New York and want to study in Colorado, you will have to pay out-of-state tuition, which is about 3 times more as in-state. Do you think is fair? What are your thoughts about it?. I need some opinions for my assignment! Thanks.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Hi! I am writing an essay about how some states (including Colorado, where I live) have approved a bill to offer lower tuition (in-state tuition) to illegal immigrants. This means that if you are a citizen or LPR from (let's say) New York and want to study in Colorado, you will have to pay out-of-state tuition, which is about 3 times more as in-state. Do you think is fair? What are your thoughts about it?. I need some opinions for my assignment! Thanks.

This is common in many states, in-state vs. out-of-state.

Personally no, I don't think illegal immigrants should be able to study. I don't think they should be able to work, drive etc etc. If you keep permitting them to do things, then they're not going to leave. The whole point is they're illegal and they should leave the US.

BUT I also understand that some people can't help being illegal (many thanks to their parents) and technically tax payers etc aren't losing out by illegals paying less, so it doesn't really affect anyone negatively.

Final opinion? It doesn't negatively impact me, so it doesn't bother me outside of it encouraging illegals to remain in the US when they should leave.

[erynaught 43]

and technically tax payers etc aren't losing out by illegals paying less, so it doesn't really affect anyone negatively.

How do you reckon this to be true? The extra tuition out-of-state students pay is not gravy to the school ... the lower 'in-state' rate is subsidized by taxes USCs/LPRs pay. And this doesn't address other federal funding which the school likely receives to defray costs of research, visiting faculty, curriculum development, etc. I don't think even out-of-state tuition costs avoid the situation where tax dollars are being used to pay for, in part, the education of an illegal alien student.

Illegal alien students do consume educational resources making them unavailable to USCs/LPRs.

The OPs question doesn't make sense though ... the example provided of a NY USC/LPR attending school in Colorado having to pay out-of-state tuition makes perfect sense and is absolutely fair ... they are out-of-state students. They want to pay less for a college education, attend an in-state school. As a tax payer, I expect that some/most of my tax dollars will be used to help my local community, partly by subsidizing the education of qualified local (and legal) students. My federal taxes contribute to this to some degree, but local taxes is where the rubber meets the road. I would expect that out-of-state students attending my state's schools are not subsidized by my state tax dollars.

Better yet, make the cut for scholarships at a private school - for talented students, it is often cheaper to attend a well-funded private school than a public school as they typically have more merit-based scholarships available.

[newacct 688]

Hi! I am writing an essay about how some states (including Colorado, where I live) have approved a bill to offer lower tuition (in-state tuition) to illegal immigrants. This means that if you are a citizen or LPR from (let's say) New York and want to study in Colorado, you will have to pay out-of-state tuition, which is about 3 times more as in-state. Do you think is fair? What are your thoughts about it?. I need some opinions for my assignment! Thanks.

It is fair. The legal/illegal issue is completely a red herring. The in-state tuition in those states is based on residency. Those people from New York have to pay more because they don't live in that state. The people who live in that state, whether they be legal or illegal, pay in-state tuition. It's that simple. If an illegal immigrant came from another state, they would similarly pay out-of-state tuition.

Many "illegal immigrants", especially those who are going to college, were brought here as children and have lived for most of their whole lives in that state. They know no place else. Why shouldn't they have more of a claim to that state than someone who just comes in from another state?

How do you reckon this to be true? The extra tuition out-of-state students pay is not gravy to the school ... the lower 'in-state' rate is subsidized by taxes USCs/LPRs pay. And this doesn't address other federal funding which the school likely receives to defray costs of research, visiting faculty, curriculum development, etc. I don't think even out-of-state tuition costs avoid the situation where tax dollars are being used to pay for, in part, the education of an illegal alien student.

Illegal alien students do consume educational resources making them unavailable to USCs/LPRs.

The OPs question doesn't make sense though ... the example provided of a NY USC/LPR attending school in Colorado having to pay out-of-state tuition makes perfect sense and is absolutely fair ... they are out-of-state students. They want to pay less for a college education, attend an in-state school. As a tax payer, I expect that some/most of my tax dollars will be used to help my local community, partly by subsidizing the education of qualified local (and legal) students. My federal taxes contribute to this to some degree, but local taxes is where the rubber meets the road. I would expect that out-of-state students attending my state's schools are not subsidized by my state tax dollars.

Better yet, make the cut for scholarships at a private school - for talented students, it is often cheaper to attend a well-funded private school than a public school as they typically have more merit-based scholarships available.

Taxes are not only paid by USCs/LPRs. Illegal immigrants and other types of legal immigrants and non-immigrants are also required to pay taxes. Illegal immigrants can file income tax if they have income, just like anyone else. They can use an SSN if they have one from previous legal work or apply for an ITIN to file taxes. They pay sales tax when they buy stuff. They get payroll tax deducted if they work for a company, etc.

Edited April 5, 2013 by newacct

[erynaught 43]

Why shouldn't they have more of a claim to that state than someone who just comes in from another state?

Because they have no legal right to be in that state, their presence is unlawful.

Parents who raise their minor children in such a manner should be stripped of their parental rights - its a form of abuse. People need to be responsible for their actions and abide by the laws of where they wish to reside.

Granted, all people working are required to pay income taxes and most everyone pays sales tax, use tax, etc. I've never seen any statistics, but it's likely that more working illegal immigrants pay income taxes than do not. Bravo to them, perhaps this should come into play when looking at their character and potential as legal immigrants. But there must be consequences and not rewards for flaunting the laws of our country.

[Caryh 5,206]

Because they have no legal right to be in that state, their presence is unlawful.

Parents who raise their minor children in such a manner should be stripped of their parental rights - its a form of abuse. People need to be responsible for their actions and abide by the laws of where they wish to reside.

Granted, all people working are required to pay income taxes and most everyone pays sales tax, use tax, etc. I've never seen any statistics, but it's likely that more working illegal immigrants pay income taxes than do not. Bravo to them, perhaps this should come into play when looking at their character and potential as legal immigrants. But there must be consequences and not rewards for flaunting the laws of our country.

We have so many illegal aliens because we have a restrictive immigration system that doesn't allow enough people in. They come because there are jobs to fill, and they're willing to fill those jobs that Americans are not willing to do. This can be caused by the work being hard and/or undesirable work, or the employer will not pay a wage an American is willing to work for. When the economy went sour and unemployment went up, many Americans rethought what they they were willing to do and some of these jobs being filled by illegals began drying up. Some illegals began to go home on their own and their total numbers in this country decreased. The USA operates on a free market economy, we pride ourselves on it, and we've created a free market of cheap labor using illegal immigrants. And at the same time we're demonizing those that come in to fill the positions which are country has knowingly created.

There was a time American citizens were the migrant farm workers who's children never got a decent education so they were stuck repeating the cycle of being cheap labor moving across the country doing back breaking farm work. We had people who thought this was so terrible, and they worked hard to educate these children so they could get out of this cycle. And guess what, they did it, American citizens no longer needed to do this work. But the work didn't go away and in came the illegals to follow the same paths American citizens once did.

We used to have open borders, people from around the world came to the USA to work and possibly have a better future. Most came from Europe and were white, we used them in our lowest paid, dirtiest jobs and paid them the lowest wages. Their children got educated and moved up in the world and new immigrants came and took their place. Except at one point the new immigrants were no longer so white, European and sharing of our religious values so we put on immigration controls and laws. But the market for the cheap, dirty, hardworking, low paying labor didn't go away, so more illegal immigrants came in to fill the void.

So these damn illegals are all over our country now. Why should their children get educations? Lets force them to starve. Lets force them to hide and scare them away with ever increasing draconian laws! Lets ignore the fact we, our country, has created a market for their labor and depend on them for that labor, and put all the blame on the boogeyman illegal immigrant. A market that is so large that even if we knew exactly where every single illegal was today, we don't have the resources to even remove but a small fraction of them. And in the mean time more will flood in to take their places because that market place of dirty jobs no American wants to do still exists.

[Darnell 8,478]

It's the school's admission policy that governs who can attend, and at what level fees are paid.

Sure, some of this stuff is governed by state law -

so, for an illegal alien, where is the wiggle room ?

IMO, an illegal alien should NOT be allowed to set foot on campus, whatsoever, regardless of ability to pay or using forged documents. Also IMO, should be an ICE officer at the admissions office, identifying illegal aliens who apply for admission - and setting the roundup schedule through normal liason stuff.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Darnell

[JohnR! 5,495]

Hi! I am writing an essay about how some states (including Colorado, where I live) have approved a bill to offer lower tuition (in-state tuition) to illegal immigrants. This means that if you are a citizen or LPR from (let's say) New York and want to study in Colorado, you will have to pay out-of-state tuition, which is about 3 times more as in-state. Do you think is fair? What are your thoughts about it?. I need some opinions for my assignment! Thanks.

My 2-cent worth:

1 - If these individuals reside in CO they are subject to in-state tuition as any other resident. If they were to seek admission at a school in NY they would pay out of state tuition in that state.

2 - College is not an inexpensive proposition so these individuals are putting money into the local economy.

3 - Are their numbers relevant? Are they displacing anyone?

Good luck with your studies!

[JohnR! 5,495]

IMO, an illegal alien should NOT be allowed to set foot on campus, whatsoever, regardless of ability to pay or using forged documents. Also IMO, should be an ICE officer at the admissions office, identifying illegal aliens who apply for admission - and setting the roundup schedule through normal liason stuff.

Although I understand your point of view, such ubiquitous presence of a police-state is better suited to communist countries.

[Darnell 8,478]

adding....

Since there was such a load on the state services prior, for prior-level schools and services, why to continue the financial drain at all?

Legal residents should benefit from their residency, illegal aliens with unlawful presence should NOT have any residency counted, whatsoever.

Although I understand your point of view, such ubiquitous presence of a police-state is better suited to communist countries.

luckily for the two of us, this isn't a debate topic.

[JohnR! 5,495]

adding....

Since there was such a load on the state services prior, for prior-level schools and services, why to continue the financial drain at all?

Legal residents should benefit from their residency, illegal aliens with unlawful presence should NOT have any residency counted, whatsoever.

On the other hand, when these individuals pay for their college tuition they put money back into the local economy.

Since states have no power to enforce immigration it would be a waste of time and money - not to mention the unconstitutionality of it all - to try and do immigration work.

[erynaught 43]

On the other hand, when these individuals pay for their college tuition they put money back into the local economy.

Drug dealing puts money into the local economy too - both from the deal itself and the necessity to hire law enforcement to deal with the crime. Good for the economy, so lets encourage the drug dealers.

Since states have no power to enforce immigration it would be a waste of time and money - not to mention the unconstitutionality of it all - to try and do immigration work.

True. However, States can (and should) set the criteria for who is elligible for in-state and out-of state tuition. Schools can also set criteria for who is elligble to enroll, including how they define 'residency'.

Edited April 5, 2013 by erynaught

[JohnR! 5,495]

Drug dealing puts money into the local economy too - both from the deal itself and the necessity to hire law enforcement to deal with the crime. Good for the economy, so lets encourage the drug dealers.

I would sooner encourage education over drug dealing, but that is only my personal stance.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Gegel

[erynaught 43]

We have so many illegal aliens because we have a restrictive immigration system that doesn't allow enough people in. They come because there are jobs to fill, and they're willing to fill those jobs that Americans are not willing to do.

US immigration is unnecessarily complex, but not too restrictive. I would argue it is not restrictive enough. Not everyone comes here for a job either ... don't need to go any further than this forum to understand that.

If you don't like the laws, work to change the laws.

I am curious though, does the term "illegal alien" cover both those who came into the US undocumented as well as those who are now unlawfully present because they overstayed their visa?

So these damn illegals are all over our country now. Why should their children get educations? Lets force them to starve. Lets force them to hide and scare them away with ever increasing draconian laws! Lets ignore the fact we, our country, has created a market for their labor and depend on them for that labor, and put all the blame on the boogeyman illegal immigrant. A market that is so large that even if we knew exactly where every single illegal was today, we don't have the resources to even remove but a small fraction of them. And in the mean time more will flood in to take their places because that market place of dirty jobs no American wants to do still exists.

No one is forcing anyone to starve. No one is forcing anyone to remain where they don't belong. I am also not advocating a round-up. Sure, there is a need for migrant workers in this country and as long as employers are willing to exploit people by paying sub-par wages and unsafe working conditions, then there will always be illegal migrant workers in this country too. This does not mean they should be rewarded with public benefits.

People should be allowed to immigrate on their ability to make a positive contribution to our society. I have an issue with people who are willing to disregard the law to achieve their end goal.

[erynaught 43]

I would sooner encourage education over drug dealing, but that is only my personal stance.

How about an educated drug dealer? Double Stuff for the economy and maybe elevate drug dealing to the same level of respectality as unlawful presence.