Danno went to Chick-Fil-A

[JohnSmith2007 353]

So, choice is not involved in human behavior? I find that hard to believe. I would hope that your arrogant response toward those you disagree with could be avoided long enough to actually learn something about your own species.

Some behavior is genetic. Genetics plays as large a role in human behavior as environment. I will disagree with you till dooms day that homosexuality is a choice. It is most definitely not. They are born that way.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

As for the Kinsey Scale you linked, I had never heard of it until now and can't really comment either way on it without researching it further.

Good time to explore the issue on your own.

You said that sexual orientation varies depending on how much ones environment will tolerate. If that is truly the case, then how do you explain thefact that homesuality exists in non tolerable environments as well?

You can't have it both ways, unless you assume homosexuality is a spontaneous mutation of purely heterosexual lineage, not a compulsive genetic behavior that is immune to outside stimulus or environmental conditions as you suggest.

[mox 298]

So, choice is not involved in human behavior? I find that hard to believe. I would hope that your arrogant response toward those you disagree with could be avoided long enough to actually learn something about your own species.

I'm not a human behaviorist, and I doubt anyone else here is either. So I can't answer your question ("is choice involved in human behavior?") with any kind of authority. My educated guess, however, is that the answer to your question is more than just a simple yes or no.

But what I do know is that there are several (perhaps dozens) of studies that point very strongly to the fact that homosexuality is not a choice. It's a very natural thing, as its prevalence in many other animals shows.

But I would add that even if homosexuality were a choice, so what? What changes? If it were a choice, it still doesn't make it wrong.

Edited August 2, 2012 by mox

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Some behavior is genetic. Genetics plays as large a role in human behavior as environment. I will disagree with you till dooms day that homosexuality is a choice. It is most definitely not. They are born that way.

I live in a very diverse community, and have many friends and clients that I deal with on an almost daily basis. Lifestyle choice has very much to do with it, and we discuss it frequently, without being judgmental.

[Teddy B 17,251]

Good time to explore the issue on your own.

You can't have it both ways, unless you assume homosexuality is a spontaneous mutation of purely heterosexual lineage, not a compulsive genetic behavior that is immune to outside stimulus or environmental conditions as you suggest.

You can slice and dice it anyway you want, fact is there is nothing to prove that homosexuality is a choice. I used to be in the same group you are in, thinking it was a choice, but as I grew older I thought better of it. I also came to the conclusion that what difference does it make either way? If it is a choice, so what, people have a right to make lifestyle choices. I really don't care what anyone dooes on a social level, as long as they are not harming anyone else. Who are you or I to tell them they can't?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I'm not a human behaviorist, and I doubt anyone else here is either. So I can't answer your question ("is choice involved in human behavior?") with any kind of authority. My educated guess, however, is that the answer to your question is more than just a simple yes or no.

But what I do know is that there are several (perhaps dozens) of studies that point very strongly to the fact that homosexuality is not a choice. It's a very natural thing, as its prevalence in many other animals shows.

But I would add that even if homosexuality were a choice, so what? What changes? If it were a choice, it still doesn't make it wrong.

That is the difference between tolerance and acceptance. I have to tolerate you because it is not your fault you were born that way. I can accept you because I choose to respect your choice. If you accept people for what they are, you don't have to find a reason to tolerate them.

[JohnSmith2007 353]

I'm not a human behaviorist, and I doubt anyone else here is either. So I can't answer your question ("is choice involved in human behavior?") with any kind of authority. My educated guess, however, is that the answer to your question is more than just a simple yes or no.

But what I do know is that there are several (perhaps dozens) of studies that point very strongly to the fact that homosexuality is not a choice. It's a very natural thing, as its prevalence in many other animals shows.

But I would add that even if homosexuality were a choice, so what? What changes? If it were a choice, it still doesn't make it wrong.

I remember several studies that looked into the reasons some people are gay. The one that sticks out reference stress and environmental causes during gestation. One study, and please don't ask me to find it, looked at the jump in homosexual males after WWII in England. It came to the conclusion that hormone imbalances of the mother, brought on by the stress of the blitz was a contributing factor. I firmly believe that some if not most of homosexuals are caused by something along those lines. All I know is that the one gay person I knew from a young age always showed signs of homosexuality.

[elmcitymaven 9,711]

Do people choose to like S&M?

Yes, if what my friends tell me is true. Some of them profess to have been "born this way," but more learned to enjoy it and seek it out. Some have left it, finding their attraction to the lifestyle was linked to their attraction to one person only, and say they never want to go back to it despite having enjoyed it at one point.

[Danno 1,228]

Actually you did, earlier in this thread. Are you purposely attempting to argue both sides or have you "changed"?

People "evolve" as our Dear leader taught us... but no one wakes up one day and chooses to molest kids for example.

[Danno 1,228]

Some behavior is genetic. Genetics plays as large a role in human behavior as environment. I will disagree with you till dooms day that homosexuality is a choice. It is most definitely not. They are born that way.

Generalize much about groups?

[Teddy B 17,251]

People "evolve" as our Dear leader taught us... but no one wakes up one day and chooses to molest kids for example.

I agree, the same way I don't believe that being homosexual is a choice.

There are some exceptions where people do choose to be homosexual for a period of time in their lives, but that is usually linked to drug abuse, mental abuse and/or sexual abuse.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Teddy B

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

...but no one wakes up one day and chooses to molest kids for example.

Sexual predators are usually quite methodical on how they pursue their prey, so I would beg to differ. Spontaneous behavior on their part is usually unsuccessful, and tends to result in their apprehension.

[JohnSmith2007 353]

Generalize much about groups?

No more than you are. In this case I believe I am correct.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

There are some exceptions where people do choose to be homosexual for a period of time in their lives, but that is usually linked to drug abuse, mental abuse and/or sexual abuse.

So, you think homosexuality is a result of abusive behavior? Way to marginalize a demographic group!

[mox 298]

I firmly believe that...

Careful. That's where people start to get themselves into trouble.

I've not ever read about hormone imbalances causing homosexuality, but who knows. It could just be that post-war children felt less inhibited about coming out as gay because so many of them didn't have a father figure around to suppress it. (that is a completely wildass guess on my part.) But sure, it's not out of the realm of possibility that a gene is manipulated due to some chemical exposure. But I seriously doubt that's going to be the reason in the vast majority of cases.

And again...whatever the reason, nature or nurture (it's nature), in the end it doesn't matter. Even if a person has convinced themselves that homosexuality is a choice, they should treat them as they would anyone else. Gay tolerance and gay marriage are civil rights issues, no matter what the science is behind it.