Married for love, barred for life??

[Nigel&Meggie 40]

As sad and tragic as this story is, should it be true, please by all means I sincerely hope that she can change status. But, it seems really fishy. I just don't see how, even when it's religious, you can not expect to have sex with your fiance when you're about to get married, living under his roof, and sleeping in his bed. If it was really religious, she probably broke that rule when she left her home and pretty much moved in with him. Unless, she stayed at a family members home be it cousin, aunt, uncle, etc? Now if her fiance is a man who see's the same views as her sure, but here she should have known full well of the customs of the person she's engaged to. What I see is a women who will do anything to get to the USA, even lie to her fiance that she does genuinely love him. He spends time, money, and effort to get her here and realizes he's been duped. That is all speculation of course, but because we are not given the whole story, at best, all you should expect from us is criticism. Don't feel bad though, because I'm sure many of us would love this to be a tragic story with a happy ending. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm sure we all would have much preferred this to be a story of true love but probably between the petitioner and the beneficiary. The system here has been too abused and only hurt those of us who are genuine so I'm sure you can see why we can't all be compassionate and supportive.

This is the most hateful thing I have ever read on VJ. There are so many things wrong with this post. First of all, especially here, we should at least know enough to know that there are a lot of different cultures and beliefs in the world that we do not understand and should respect. Secondly, between any two people, sex should ALWAYS be consensual, no matter what either of them EXPECTS based on time and money invested or anything else. And lastly, Anyone posting here should expect at best to be taken at their word and given helpful advice. There is no point to this forum if we can only expect at best to be treated suspiciously and with criticism. Of course we can and should be compassionate and supportive. Didn't you ever face suspicion and need a place where you could find support? Shame on you Isamu.

OP, I am so sorry that your thread has gone this way. I do agree with other posters here that the best thing to do is get a good immigration lawyer, and while I can't suggest one, I know others have. Try searching old threads and I think you can find some good referrals. I think too many people have not read this thread very thoroughly, which can be annoying, and way too many people got up on the wrong side of the bed and just have a bad attitude today. Most of the time, people on VJ ARE compassionate and supportive, even in unique cases. I wish I could offer better advice. Please know that I wish you the best.

[bigdog 376]

I think this is very complicated, she and they both need an outstanding attorney, especially if their are problems.

[Caryh 5,206]

This is the most hateful thing I have ever read on VJ. There are so many things wrong with this post. First of all, especially here, we should at least know enough to know that there are a lot of different cultures and beliefs in the world that we do not understand and should respect. Secondly, between any two people, sex should ALWAYS be consensual, no matter what either of them EXPECTS based on time and money invested or anything else. And lastly, Anyone posting here should expect at best to be taken at their word and given helpful advice. There is no point to this forum if we can only expect at best to be treated suspiciously and with criticism. Of course we can and should be compassionate and supportive. Didn't you ever face suspicion and need a place where you could find support? Shame on you Isamu.

OP, I am so sorry that your thread has gone this way. I do agree with other posters here that the best thing to do is get a good immigration lawyer, and while I can't suggest one, I know others have. Try searching old threads and I think you can find some good referrals. I think too many people have not read this thread very thoroughly, which can be annoying, and way too many people got up on the wrong side of the bed and just have a bad attitude today. Most of the time, people on VJ ARE compassionate and supportive, even in unique cases. I wish I could offer better advice. Please know that I wish you the best.

He's not the only one thinking its fishy. There are a lot of holes in that story and unanswered questions. A person can hardly give advice on this case with so many questions, and even without those questions, its certainly too complicated for DIY. Could she have been raped? Yes its possible, but it also begs the question if they were truly in love and getting married it's hard to imagine a circumstance where sex wouldn't be consensual. If they were not in love, and the marriage was for immigration purposes or exploitation purposes in either direction, then rape is pretty easy to imagine occurring. That said, I hope if she is in a real relationship now, that she finds a way to stay. If not and she's just been using Americans to get what she wants and lying about everything, I hope she gets sent back. There are just too many questions and things that don't add up in my mind to have an opinion either way actually. There's only one type of advice I can see here, get a darn good immigration attorney.

[Iyawo Ijebu 157]

I agree and true jay kay no one deserves to be raped even if they are married.If she was raped why she didn't go to the police? idk seems a bit fishy

Because according to Bob, or is it Brad, she has limited to no English skills, she did not turn to the Police but to her church but whom I believe also has a duty to report a crime, as violent as this alleged crime was, to the police.

name='4bd' timestamp='1335061282' post='5320283']

No, Angelina did not marry the man that filed the I-129F ("Bob").

Angelina married Brad.

Pinoylover, there are still some who believe that you don't consummate the relationship until after being married, believe it or not. A bit surprising and old-fashioned I guess, but they are still around. So here's the thing...why would you want to use somebody on a K-1 visa to come to America, knowing full well (from the interview and questioning process in Beijing) that by not following through with the marriage it would jeopardize, no INVALIDATE, your legal status here in America? It would have been "smarter" to get married, get the green card, and then divorce/leave/separate, etc.

Angelina followed Bob to America, completely trusting him, with limited to no English language skills. If you were in her situation and forcibly raped, TWICE, who would you turn to? Better yet, who could you trust? I imagine that even for American women, born in the States, they would have a tough time finding someone to talk to/confide in or even report that it happened.

[Peter_Pan 661]

As sad and tragic as this story is, should it be true, please by all means I sincerely hope that she can change status. But, it seems really fishy. I just don't see how, even when it's religious, you can not expect to have sex with your fiance when you're about to get married, living under his roof, and sleeping in his bed. If it was really religious, she probably broke that rule when she left her home and pretty much moved in with him. Unless, she stayed at a family members home be it cousin, aunt, uncle, etc? Now if her fiance is a man who see's the same views as her sure, but here she should have known full well of the customs of the person she's engaged to.

That's bullshit, I lived with a guy and slept in his bed and didn't have sex because I didn't want to.

My own parents were married legally for months and sleeping under the same roof and in the same bed and didn't consume the marriage because mom wanted to wait until after the religious ceremony.

[Kehinde 45]

That's bullshit, I lived with a guy and slept in his bed and didn't have sex because I didn't want to.

My own parents were married legally for months and sleeping under the same roof and in the same bed and didn't consume the marriage because mom wanted to wait until after the religious ceremony.

Yea but were you married to the guy,? or engaged to marry him? Think about that it just don't add up. Even a lawyer will have a tough time with it.

[Peter_Pan 661]

Marital rape, also known as spousal rape, is non-consensual sex in which the perpetrator is the victim's spouse. As such, it is a form of partner rape, of domestic violence, and of sexual abuse. Once widely condoned or ignored by law, spousal rape is now repudiated by international conventions and increasingly criminalized. Still, in many countries, spousal rape either remains legal, or is illegal but widely tolerated and accepted as a husband's prerogative.

In 2006, it was estimated that marital rape could be prosecuted in at least 104 countries (in four of these countries, marital rape could be prosecuted only when the spouses were judicially separated),[1] and since 2006 several other countries have outlawed spousal rape. In many countries it is not clear if marital rape may or may not be prosecuted under ordinary rape laws. Several countries in Eastern Europe and Scandinavia made spousal rape illegal before 1970, but other countries in Western Europe and the English-speaking Western World outlawed it much later, mostly in the 1980s and 1990s. Most developing countries outlawed it in the 1990s and 2000s.In 1982 Diana E. H. Russell, a radical feminist writer and activist, published a landmark study on martial rape. Her study surveyed in the summer of 1978 a total of 930 women from San Francisco, California (50% non-response rate, Asian women were specifically excluded as non-reliable respondents) of whom 644 had husbands to whom they were married, or were divorced from them (ex-husbands), or whom they self-identified as a husband although not legally married. 6 of these women (1%) responded that they had been raped by their husbands. The survey interviewers, however, classified 74 (12%) of the women as having been raped. Of the 286 non-married women in the sample, 228 (80%) were classified by the interviewers as having been raped. Russell found that when repeated instances of rape by husbands and ex-husbands are included, these account for 38% of all rape instances, making it one of the most prevalent types of rape.[58]

David Finkelhor and Kersti Yllo published a study in 1985 on martial rape that drew on a scientifically-selected area probability sample from the metropolitan Boston area of 323 women who were married or previously married who had a child living with them between the ages of six and fourteen. The study found that of the women who were married the instance of sexual relations through physical force or the threat of physical force was 3%. [59]

A 1992 survey by the National Victim Center in Arlington, Virginia states that 10% of all sexual assault cases reported by women involved a husband or ex-husband.

In 1994, Patricia Easteal, then Senior Criminologist at the Australian Institute of Criminology, published the results of survey on sexual assault in many settings. The respondents had been victims of numerous forms of sexual assault. Of these, 10.4% had been raped by husbands or de facto spouses, with a further 2.3% raped by estranged husbands/de factos.

A 1997 study led by Kathleen C. Basile found that 13% of US married women had experienced rape (defined as unwanted sex obtained through the use or threat of force) by their current husband.[60]

In the UK, statistics disseminated by the Rape Crisis Federation yield the information that the most common rapists are husbands, ex-husbands, or partners.[61]

Yea but were you married to the guy,? or engaged to marry him? Think about that it just don't add up. Even a lawyer will have a tough time with it.

We were dating.

[Pinoylover 6]

some of you here keep saying that some of us are saying it's ok to make someone have sex! I'm not saying it is ok to make your fiancee or wife have sex with you (rape) what we are saying is she claims she was raped when she got here she was with Bob total 9 days why didn't she leave after the first rape? why didn't she go to the police? Who did she go to after the 9th day there? i could ask questions all day long about this. So many loop holes so many red flags in what was stated in the start of this post. I would like to believe that it happen and Bob gets what he deserves in the end and Angiela gets to stay with Brad and live happily ever after in the states. But till i have more proof i'm going with what i said in the first place.everbody has there own thoughts about this.

[Operator 1,925]

Sure you can but not by your fiance. I am sure they have had sex before she came and I am sure they sleep together and i am sure she has told him that she loved him cos that is one of the first things they tell you when they are trying to get here to marry someone else. You must admit its fishy.

I'm afraid I can't agree with you. As is already stated in the post this woman is of strong religious belief along with that if she has strong Chinese cultural beliefs it's very possible she would not want to have intercourse prior to marriage. If she was forced to have intercourse then it's rape (yes even if it was her husband).

I understand why people doubt the story because we all see the results of visa fraud on this website everyday but it's not up to us to decide the merits of this womans case.

The woman and her husband need a lawyer.

[Iyawo Ijebu 157]

6 of these women (1%) responded that they had been raped by their husbands. The survey interviewers, however, classified 74 (12%) of the women as having been raped. Of the 286 non-married women in the sample, 228 (80%) were classified by the interviewers as having been raped.

Why did they even bother this already trumatized, allegedly, Ladies when they were going to use their own data to form their own opinion anyways? And also why no Men?

[4bd 7]

some of you here keep saying that some of us are saying it's ok to make someone have sex! I'm not saying it is ok to make your fiancee or wife have sex with you (rape) what we are saying is she claims she was raped when she got here she was with Bob total 9 days why didn't she leave after the first rape? why didn't she go to the police? Who did she go to after the 9th day there? i could ask questions all day long about this. So many loop holes so many red flags in what was stated in the start of this post. I would like to believe that it happen and Bob gets what he deserves in the end and Angiela gets to stay with Brad and live happily ever after in the states. But till i have more proof i'm going with what i said in the first place.everbody has there own thoughts about this.

Angelina's rape did not occur on the first day or second, it was after a week of arriving to the States. You can imagine the shame, embarrassment, hurt and confusion she must have felt, especially after putting her trust in a man who was supposed to love and protect her.

What's more evident by reading the comments here on vj, are the cultural and social mores surrounding sex, love and marriage. Some members believe that Angelina and Bob had sex before because after all, that's OBVIOUSLY what couples do when they are in a pre-marital relationship. And there are others who have the belief that sex happens once a relationship is consummated (i.e., marriage). Wherever your views/beliefs may lie on this issue, I think one thing we can all agree on is the importance of understanding and respect for the different beliefs that individuals have on this issue. To inject your personal beliefs and make biased statements doesn't help to address the issue.

Now I've got a question for all of you vj forum members who successfully petitioned for a K-1 visa and are now happily married (presumably): were the consequences of not getting married under a K-1 visa explained to you and your foreign spouse during the process? How important were these ramifications stressed (or not stressed) during the entire process?

[Iyawo Ijebu 157]

I'm afraid I can't agree with you. As is already stated in the post this woman is of strong religious belief along with that if she has strong Chinese cultural beliefs it's very possible she would not want to have intercourse prior to marriage. If she was forced to have intercourse then it's rape (yes even if it was her husband).

I understand why people doubt the story because we all see the results of visa fraud on this website everyday but it's not up to us to decide the merits of this womans case.

The woman and her husband need a lawyer.

That's the beauty of this site. I haven't read the TOS, perhaps I should give it a go, but I'm certain agreeing with each other will not be in there.

We're all from various diverse ethnic, cultural societies so for sure dissagreemetns is the order of the day but in a civil, professional manner.

[pushbrk 12,111]

Bob/Brad, once you posted on a public forum, Sir, that is exactly what you are asking us to do. We are humans after all, even if we are unclean pre marital sex weirdos.

This is a public forum with Terms of Service that forbid making such judgmental statements and injection of personal beliefs.

[elkhunter 3]

Because according to Bob, or is it Brad, she has limited to no English skills, she did not turn to the Police but to her church but whom I believe also has a duty to report a crime, as violent as this alleged crime was, to the police.

This post was submitted before: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/229368-she-came-k1-with-another-manbut-it-wasnt-happily-ever-afteruntil-me/

And she did call the police :

Well I met a girl. And I fell in love. And I want to marry her.

But she told me her story and now I'm not sure if we can make this happen.

She came here approximately 3 years ago, originally on a K1 visa planning to marry "Bob." Bob became abusive and   

police were called to the house on 2 different occasions. Long story short, she left him and moved to the other side of the country.

Fast forward 2 years, I met her and we began a wonderful and loving relationship. 1 year and many Kleenex's later, we are planning on getting married but because she didn't marry Bob within 90 days of her K1 (and her overstaying her visa for over 3 years) is it possible to marry her?

I guess my question is, if I marry her (I am a natural born US citizen), what ramifications will it have for her and for me? Will she be able to begin her process for becoming a US citizen (naturalized) after we are married?

My greatest fears are 1) our marriage will not be legal/valid in court and 2) she will be deported back to her country (China). My understanding is that once a Chinese citizen is deported back for illegal status in another country (i.e., USA), she will never be granted a Visa from China again (or from the USA for that matter).

I did a number of forum searches regarding this but couldn't find anything specific, hence the new topic.

a thousand blessings.... 

This post has been edited by 4bd: 19 November 2009 - 01:04 PM

[LIFE'SJOURNEY 970]

These are the kind of post I hate, because they are always one sided, now if you had only posted the immigration part of the question, then the general public would only have the need to respond to that question.

As been stated by many on this board,

1. She can not adjust status based on being married to you, b/c she can on another K1.

2. For the rest you need a qualified lawyer.

Everything else posted will be opinions, I suggest you either close the post or let it roll with evryone giving their opinions about all that have been posted.