Stereotypes in America, true or not

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

I took no offense to your views on this subject.. I did take offense to this:

"OnMyWayID" made up information both about the obesity statistics and even misstated where the OP was from, both of which are easy to check. I was correcting that information.

Originally I was going to respond to the person wanting to fly back home because of her fear of the medical system.. I remembered reading a comparison of the medical system based on a point system and when you remove the cost factor the US compares well and since she was going to most likely spend 3000+ for plane tickets (assuming her and her husband make the journey) it did not make sense..

Anyway while I was looking that up I remembered an article I read a few years back about the Australians taking the mantle in the obesity wars.. I looked it up and there was the article from 2008. It reported the percentage of obese people only.. specifically it said this:

"The latest comprehensive obesity study has shown that 26 per cent of adult Australians - almost four million - are now obese, one million more than the last calculation in 1999.

The findings give Australia top spot as the world's most overweight nation, ahead of the notoriously super-sized Americans, who have a 25 per cent obesity rate."

Great.. So then I tried to find stats from 2009, 2010, 2011.. The only metrics I could find combined both obese and the overweight-but-not-yet obese (showing 60-70%). I also found a few articles about Germany, Canada, Egypt, and Kuwait (among others) that were seeing major shifts upward while I was looking and I included those stats... I went back to find matching metrics before 2008 that included overwieght-but-not-obese but they only included obese.. So the metrics *I* found changed after 2008.. I said as such in my post...

What I wrote was spot on with what I found.. You called me a liar and said I made it up. I take offense to that.

Edited January 10, 2012 by OnMyWayID

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

There were a lot more height/weight-proportionate women overseas, si man.

Memo to the men of VJ: the obesity epidemic in the US effects men equally and beer guts and moobs are so not attractive, oui man.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

OnMyWayID wrote: You had that prejudice coming in and saw what you wanted to see when really it is no different than the place you left in that respect.. I saw that in several of the comments on other items not just yours

I think this gets to the heart of what stereotypes are. Stereotyped comments are based on perspectives formed from preconceived expectation - either negative or positive, either valid or otherwise. This can also be called 'a prejudice', as the expected view point has a preconceived expectation - a prejudice towards a certain expectation - about the culture involved. I think, though, the use of the word prejudice here implies that there is an intended negativity, that the comments were meant to be insulting, rather than expressing someone's personal observations based upon their own cultural background and experiences. I do not see any intention to insult in the comments under question and suspect that this response has more to do with the reader than with the poster. Sometimes this is difficult for those on the receiving end of the stereotype to accept- that maybe the stereotype does have some truth to it.

The thing is, when one person is expressing their observations based upon their personal experiences and operating from their own different cultural background, you don't need to see it as an attack on you personally or even, in this case, on the US. I found it interesting that some felt that they needed to jump to the defense of the US against certain comments by attacking other countries rather than saying why the stereotype is or isn't true. It is somewhat ironic, actually, that in a thread exploring stereotypes we had a nice illustration of another American stereotype ' blind patriotism'. That is one of the stereotypes I had about Americans - a lot of it based upon Canadian-American relationships over the years. Americans were never able to hear anything 'wrong' about the US even if it was in their own best interests to know it. I still don't understand this type of blind patriotism. If my country is wrong on something, I want to know about it, see it, discuss it, and hopefully find a way to fix it. I don't want to be viewed as 'unpatriotic' for raising the question that this 'flaw' or problem exists. That, to me, sounds like the ultimate unpatriotic thing to do - to pretend that the problem doesn't exist and to threaten others if they suggest it does.

To explore stereotypes in the other direction, someone mentioned joining a Canada forum and insulting Canadians - that's occurred here on VJ and the interesting result was that a lot of the Canadians agreed that there was some truth in what the attacker had to say, discussed the pros and cons about whether they comments were justified or not, and finally the American involved became so disgusted he launched into a TOS violating tirade that got him suspended. In the meantime, I got apologies from some of the Canadians involved in the discussion, hoping that their comments had not been inappropriate.

Now, this is one of the stereotypes Americans have about Canadians, that we are generally overly polite, and it has a germ of truth in it. Are all Canadians polite at all times - of course not! Are most of us polite at most times? Yes. This is part of our acculturation, and when we come to the US we do find Americans rude, not because Americans are necessarily being rude, but because of the differences of our cultural backgrounds. For example, the standard American response of 'umm humm" instead of a thank you sounds rude to my ears but this is based upon my 'foreign' expectations. I realized soon enough that there was no intention of being rude and they did not see themselves as being rude, but were just responding based upon their acculturation - but this is how the stereotype of 'rude Americans' is formed.

Stereotypes are based upon 'relative comparisons' to other cultural perspectives. Instead of complaining that the other person's experiences or perspective is wrong and attacking them and their home country for their comments, this thread is a good place to explore first why the stereotype exists, and if it exists for more than one culture, and what can be done to correct the stereotypes. It might also be a useful exercise for those who find themselves reacting strongly to examine why this is a hot button for you. I have found that we tend to be most reactive when something strikes too close to home and we don't want to see or accept that there may be some truth in the observation. This often shows up as the 'best defense is a good offense' response, trying to deflect the discussion into another area. It is a tool politicians use all the time.

So, please people, lower the weaponry. We are allowed to disagree with each other but it doesn't make sense to attack someone for making comments based upon their perspective because it is not a perspective that you share. It doesn't necessarily make their comment wrong - although it may - nor does it make their comment right. It is their perspective, their experience, that is what is being discussed. While stereotypes often do have a germ of truth at their core, they are generally very inaccurate in providing any sort of realistic view of the culture involved and that is why stereotypes are often at the heart of racist, sexist or otherwise inappropriate comments. It is good to explore them and expose them to get them out into the light of day so they can be revealed for what they are - a simplistic one size fits all preconceived expectation, which will never be accurate for everyone.

btw, one way to tell if a comment has struck too close to the bone is to monitor your own response: If it provokes a strong reaction in you, you probably recognize some truth to the comment and don't want to look at it any closer for fear of what you might find; if there is no emotional reaction, or you find it amusing and can laugh at it, it isn't one of your personal emotional 'hot buttons' and your response is likely to be more objective.

[Susita 175]

My sister-in-law in Peru told me that I have nice nails because American women don't clean anything or do any housework. My brother-in-law & I had her believing that I have a robot that cleans my house, of course I don't clean anything.

Apparently we just let our babies cry in a separate room too, and only give them cold milk.

The best stereotype though, was the one she got from watching "Everybody Loves Raymond." Apparently all Americans have cereal boxes above their refrigerator and it looks tacky. I told her that it was true, but it is definetely not tacky I have to keep the Cap'n Crunch out of my kids' reach!!!

[Alex & Rachel 78]

I find my nails are cleanest after a day of household chores! Must be all that chemically goodness.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

I think we've seen non-USCs also get defensive in this thread - it's not nice to be reduced to a generalization or national statistic.

[Susita 175]

I think we've seen non-USCs also get defensive in this thread - it's not nice to be reduced to a generalization or national statistic.

agreed

[TBoneTX 43,404]

Memo to the men of VJ: the obesity epidemic in the US effects men equally and beer guts and moobs are so not attractive, oui man.

Yo, R-Bone! Perhaps the statement should have said "There were a lot more height/weight-proportionate women overseas who were available & willing to marry and who were of childbearing age and weren't psychologically deranged, si man," si man.

[TBoneTX 43,404]

we've seen non-USCs also get defensive in this thread

The best defense is a good offense, si man, if one doesn't take offense to good defense, no man.

reduced to a generalization

Actually, wouldn't one be increased to a generalization? One starts with privatization, then progresses to corporalization, sergeantization, lieutenantization, captainization, majorization, and colonelization (isn't this what England did to the eventual U.S. before our independence?), see man. Edited January 10, 2012 by TBoneTX

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

Yo, R-Bone! Perhaps the statement should have said "There were a lot more height/weight-proportionate women overseas who were available & willing to marry and who were of childbearing age and weren't psychologically deranged, si man," si man.

*Applies virtual wedgie* Hai!, man

Edited January 10, 2012 by Trompe le Monde

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

As for stereotype, I had a Magnavox turntable attached to an RCA component. What was your type of stereo, huh man?

Bliss! I will be shopping for some stereo components soon, not soon enough!

[TBoneTX 43,404]

*Applies virtual wedgie* Hai!, man

Speaking of which, have you (and has everyone) contributed to the most crucial poll in the Polls forum?

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/249659-wedgies-si-man/

Bliss! I will be shopping for some stereo components soon, not soon enough!

Yo, HT-Bone (welcome back, si man): I have not heard of a "Bliss" stereo type; who manufactures it, huh man?

[Susita 175]

Yo, R-Bone! Perhaps the statement should have said "There were a lot more height/weight-proportionate women overseas who were available & willing to marry and who were of childbearing age and weren't psychologically deranged, si man," si man.

T-Bone, lay off the gringas compadre!

[missmissy 38]

My Danish husband and I live in Mississippi - he LOVE'S it! People here are fat AND friendly! Lars has lived a lot of places and we've lived in Sweden and Russia before we ended back in Mississippi. We have the distinction of being the fattest state, the poorest state and the least educated but the folks here are amazingly friendly and open and have accepted him, accepted our marriage and he feels very connected and grounded here.

I've lived in Sweden and Russia with Lars and I understand all of the feelings you guys are having. I had them when I lived abroad. It just takes time. I do feel strongly about one thing though - most American's are friendly and welcoming. Most of my experiences while we lived abroad were positive but I never felt really welcomed nor was I ever able to make any close friends and it wasn't because I didn't try.

[scotinmass 588]

My Danish husband and I live in Mississippi - he LOVE'S it! People here are fat AND friendly! Lars has lived a lot of places and we've lived in Sweden and Russia before we ended back in Mississippi. We have the distinction of being the fattest state, the poorest state and the least educated but the folks here are amazingly friendly and open and have accepted him, accepted our marriage and he feels very connected and grounded here.

I've lived in Sweden and Russia with Lars and I understand all of the feelings you guys are having. I had them when I lived abroad. It just takes time. I do feel strongly about one thing though - most American's are friendly and welcoming. Most of my experiences while we lived abroad were positive but I never felt really welcomed nor was I ever able to make any close friends and it wasn't because I didn't try.

Agreed! I have not once come across any bad feeling towards me. People are very accepting and welcoming and generally very polite and kind. That goes totally against the stereotypes!