This (illegal) American life

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Hello... 2 ways... ITIN and false social security numbers. Sure, there are some that steal other's identity, which I am firmly against, but the majority of illegals aren't using someone elses SS#. That's a myth you guys like to bring up to further bash illegals. Most of them have a number that does not belong to anyone else.

There are plenty of lenders that do loans for illegals all day long. I see hundreds of credit reports a week. ITIN's can be used as well to qualify for mortgages. The credit bureaus even score folks using ITIN's as opposed to SS#'s. It becomes tricky when someone is using both an ITIN and a SS#. But ultimately it's a simple phone call or letter to the credit bureaus to combine the file.

The majority of illegals are using someone else's ss#. Spin it any way you like it, there aren't millions of illegals with mortgages and loans. Go out and experience the illegal community in your area. I could write books about what goes on it. Most are very open about it when they trust you.

Sorry, I don't buy the loan bs you have posted.

[Ready to do it 101]

Everyone is entitled to their own personal opinion, but here's the thing... why do you care? You do recognize that the burden on all of us would be much much greater, all our home values would drop, interest rates would increase, banks would flounder and need more bailouts which we will all end up paying. You are entitled to your opinion, but is there a reason you are so against illegals? If you think that it is because your taxes are higher, etc or if you are blaming them for the recession then your argument is flawed because your proposition ensures the US goes belly up.

I personally think that if the criminal kids want citizenship then to go back to their former country and do it the legal way. Since they were here illegal before and it is a permanent ban usually maybe we can compromise and be lenient and if the parents agree to a permanent ban then the kids can not be fined but be allowed to petition for legal entry like we all have to do. Of course they need to get in line like every other person trying to do it the legal way.

Also every school and college should check for legal residence and if no real papers then no entry to any school. If any try to get a job then they have to show they are legal like I have to do. No license to drive. No services. Personally I think landlords should also be charged with condoning an illegal enterprise if they rent to criminals. (Illegals are criminals) No anchor babies ever again. If any business hires an illegal and gets caught they should have their illegal incomes seized like we do for drug dealers. Any and all management from bottom to top and including shareholders should be charged with conspiracy. And to be sure lets start hitting every business from small to large and shut them down. Other businesses will get the idea and get rid of their illegals pronto. With no prospect for work or even housing then they will leave on their own.

To even think to give in to the illegals is stupidity. They came here expecting to become legal one day and are crying crocodile tears now to try to get us to do what they want us to do. Last time Reagan gave clemency and told us we would fix the problem and we went along with it. All it did is make the problem worse by opening the flood gates to even more to take advantage of any future clemency. Well too bad.

The last I read was that the last wave of illegals that got clemency under Reagan started sponsoring others to immigrate here. This is called chain migration and the last wave was sponsoring 4-5 each on average more to come. If we legalize this many then within 10 years the chain migration would be 50-60 million more. And the problem would still be there as we have the laws on the books to stop this invasion now but don't enforce them.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Everyone is entitled to their own personal opinion, but here's the thing... why do you care? You do recognize that the burden on all of us would be much much greater, all our home values would drop, interest rates would increase, banks would flounder and need more bailouts which we will all end up paying. You are entitled to your opinion, but is there a reason you are so against illegals? If you think that it is because your taxes are higher, etc or if you are blaming them for the recession then your argument is flawed because your proposition ensures the US goes belly up.

Total bullsh!t. Home values dropping? Please. You talk absolute nonsense.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

The majority of illegals are using someone else's ss#. Spin it any way you like it, there aren't millions of illegals with mortgages and loans. Go out and experience the illegal community in your area. I could write books about what goes on it. Most are very open about it when they trust you.

Sorry, I don't buy the loan bs you have posted.

[Ready to do it 101]

You don't have to buy anything, because I am not selling anything. Just simply posting facts. If you don't believe me why not call a few banks, Equifax, Experian, or TransUnion. Heck, don't believe me... do your own research. Yes, there are millions of illegals with mortgages and loans.

The majority of illegals are using someone else's ss#. Spin it any way you like it, there aren't millions of illegals with mortgages and loans. Go out and experience the illegal community in your area. I could write books about what goes on it. Most are very open about it when they trust you.

Sorry, I don't buy the loan bs you have posted.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

You don't have to buy anything, because I am not selling anything. Just simply posting facts. If you don't believe me why not call a few banks, Equifax, Experian, or TransUnion. Heck, don't believe me... do your own research. Yes, there are millions of illegals with mortgages and loans.

LMAO! More like pulling facts out of your sphincter. What happened to the hundreds of credit reports you see each week? BS.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

LMAO! More like pulling facts out of your sphincter. What happened to the hundreds of credit reports you see each week? BS.

Right on spooks!

This one goes out to you!

[luckytxn 2,263]

Everyone is entitled to their own personal opinion, but here's the thing... why do you care? You do recognize that the burden on all of us would be much much greater, all our home values would drop, interest rates would increase, banks would flounder and need more bailouts which we will all end up paying. You are entitled to your opinion, but is there a reason you are so against illegals? If you think that it is because your taxes are higher, etc or if you are blaming them for the recession then your argument is flawed because your proposition ensures the US goes belly up.

And how do you know for certain that the U.S. would go belly up if we enforce our laws and rid us of illegals? You don't and it is a fallacy to think we would. In fact we would probably be better off. There would be jobs for Americans and at a better pay then otherwise. We could then start looking at immigrants to come here from other countries legally. Right now we have to limit legal immigration as we have so many illegals.

With a higher rate of legal workers the burden on our services would be lessened. Crime would be lessened. The tax base would be broadened. Companies that have followed the law and hired only legal workers would be able to now compete fair. There are too many pluses to name them all but just think of the new industry that will spring up to help the illegals return home.

The best part is that now the citizens can return home and let their own government handle their incompetence that drew them to this country in the first place. We are subsidizing Mexico corrupt and incompetence by allowing all these illegals here and let them send much needed dollars home. Well from now on they will have to face the music and do something about the reasons that force them to flee their homes and families.

[scandal 951]

This article is pretty old, 2005, and the mortgage market today is vastly different since the 2008 bust. But the points about ITINs in bold below are still generally valid.

Banking on illegal immigrants

Banks are seeing an untapped resource in providing home loans to undocumented U.S. residents

August 8, 2005: 3:39 PM EDT

By Shaheen Pasha, CNN/Money staff writer

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - The banking industry is opening its doors to a controversial new market: illegal immigrants.

Despite heated political debate in Washington over illegal immigration in the United States, an increasing number of banks are seeing an untapped resource for growing their own revenue stream and contend that providing undocumented residents with mortgages will help revitalize local communities.

It's a win-win situation, they say.

But skeptics worry about the message these home loans send to illegal immigrants: break our laws and we'll reward you with a home.

"It's institutionalizing illegality," said Marti Dinerstein, president of Immigration Matters, a New York-based think tank. "Now there's no distinction being made between the people that follow all the rules and those who break our laws by entering the country or overstaying their visas."

Dinerstein also worried that lack of knowledge on the part of illegal immigrants could pave the way for abuse in the form of predatory lending.

But advocates of the practice say the benefits outweigh any potential downside.

According to the Center for Immigration Studies, one million illegal immigrants cross the U.S. borders every year. About 500,000 illegal immigrants lose that status every year either by getting legitimate green cards or returning to their native countries. That leaves a 500,000 annual net increase of illegal immigrants – a market that has unmet banking needs.

"This is a huge untapped market with people that live and work in this country and are capable of buying homes to realize the American dream," said Chan Peterson, executive vice president and head of community banking at Banco Popular, one of the earliest banks to enter this field.

He added that there's a common misperception that illegal immigrants will be more likely to default on their loans than a documented resident. But the company has found that there is no higher rate of default in this loan portfolio than any other market the company serves.

"There's a pride that comes with people moving from renting to owning and we've found that these borrowers are driven to hang on to their homes," Peterson said.

Bill Schumer, vice president of product development at Fifth Third Mortgage Co., a unit of Fifth Third Bancorp. (Research), said the company entered the marketplace due to the belief that providing these low-to-moderate income loans will help revitalize communities in the United States, as borrowers buy more run-down properties and rebuild.

He added that by introducing this segment of the population to home ownership education, they are also building a foundation to cross-sell their other products.

"We've been at this program for the last 8 or 9 months and 68 percent of these borrowers have established three or more banking services with us," he said.

While Schumer wasn't willing to disclose how many of mortgages the company provides, he said the product has been well received in the marketplace and is already 4 percent above the level the bank had targeted for the year. And it's growing.

That's not surprising, said Alenka Grealish, manager of the banking group at Celent, an independent research and consulting firm.

Grealish said while the mortgage banking business in the U.S. continues to be red hot, veterans know that it's a highly cyclical industry that moves with interest rate trends. She said that forward-looking banks are already considering how to grow their business when the pipeline of traditional mortgages begins to dry up.

"Illegal immigrants are here to stay and banks are recognizing that," she said. "If you do a niche market well and know how to price it, banks can have some attractive margins."

She added that while criticism is rampant, banks are careful to follow guidelines that the government already has in place.

Case in point: the government's issuance of individual taxpayer identification numbers, or ITINs.

ITINs are a nine-digit tax processing number issued by the Internal Revenue Service to individuals who are required to have a U.S. taxpayer identification number but who don't have, and aren't eligible to obtain, a social security number. Since the IRS doesn't require legal residency to obtain an ITIN, many illegal immigrants use this form of identification to pay U.S. taxes and buy homes.

"Illegal immigrants are a huge gray area and it becomes even more gray when you start issuing ITINs," Grealish said. "There's complicity already within the government in which they're saying that they're kind of fine with these people here as long as they pay their taxes."

The IRS for its part says that ITINs aren't valid for identification purposes outside of the tax system. But there are no explicit rules banning the use of ITINs in obtaining mortgages.

Banco Popular's Peterson added that it would be discriminatory to deny a loan based on an ITIN.

For now, community banks are leading the charge when it comes to providing home loans for illegal immigrants. Banking experts say that community banks often have the bilingual capabilities and are more in tune with local community needs and markets.

And larger banks are holding out for secondary markets such as Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac to agree to buy illegal immigrant mortgages from the banks – thus lowering their risk.

Bank of America (Research), which accepts ITINs to open interest-bearing deposit accounts, currently isn't offering a mortgage product to this market but the banking giant is looking into it, said spokeswoman Julie Davis.

"Banks are counting on the fact that we do a lousy job with interior enforcement," said Celent's Grealish. "Once you're in the country and you haven't done anything wrong, the chances of being deported are very slim. Banks are banking on that."

[Ready to do it 101]

Your post makes good sense, but at the end of the day regardless of how we feel with those who have broken the rules as a nation we are much better off with finding a solution then having more than half the population simply complain about it and nothing be done about it.

I was intrigued by your post about the voting predictions. You mentioned that the middle would be pretty much red and you further mentioned that no way will CA, NY, or MA be red. Have you considered Obama's promise of Comprehensive Immigration Reform? While this new passing of not deporting non-criminal illegals and allowing illegals the ability to get work permits is a step in the right direction, do you not see a huge potential backlash on Obama in 2012 for not getting a Comprehension Immigration Reform passed? You do recognize that to the majority of hispanics his promise of Comprehensive Immigration Reform is amnsesty... nothing and nothing less. While he didn't come out and say he would get them Amnesty, I do think that is what hispanics are holding him to and anything less is a failed promise. Could you not see California turn "red" due to the backlash from hispanics?

What bothers me about the current illegal immigration situation is the disrespect it causes for the law. Our society only works when everyone believes that it's basically just and equal and we're all the same before the law and no one is above it. When you have millions of people openly flaunting the law, it's very upsetting to those of us trying to live by the rules. I DO blame people who entered this country illegally or who overstayed for their actions, and I DO think their should be some consequence to that lawbreaking. I DON'T blame the government for "letting them in". The law is the law, regardless of whether it's technically possible to enforce it in every case, or not. "I can get away with it" is not an excuse for stealing your neighbor's TV, or for crossing the Arizona border without a visa.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

And how do you know for certain that the U.S. would go belly up if we enforce our laws and rid us of illegals? You don't and it is a fallacy to think we would. In fact we would probably be better off. There would be jobs for Americans and at a better pay then otherwise. We could then start looking at immigrants to come here from other countries legally. Right now we have to limit legal immigration as we have so many illegals.

With a higher rate of legal workers the burden on our services would be lessened. Crime would be lessened. The tax base would be broadened. Companies that have followed the law and hired only legal workers would be able to now compete fair. There are too many pluses to name them all but just think of the new industry that will spring up to help the illegals return home.

The best part is that now the citizens can return home and let their own government handle their incompetence that drew them to this country in the first place. We are subsidizing Mexico corrupt and incompetence by allowing all these illegals here and let them send much needed dollars home. Well from now on they will have to face the music and do something about the reasons that force them to flee their homes and families.

Well said txn.

[Kang 22]

Right now we have to limit legal immigration as we have so many illegals.

Do you realize that majority of the legal immigrants in the US are foreign spouses of US citizens? I doubt you want to prolong the visa or have caps on immediate family of a US citizen.

[Ready to do it 101]

Banco Popular is huge in the market with those that only have ITINs. Like I said, the difficulties occur when one has an ITIN and a SS#. I've actually seen situations when an illegal has an ITIN and a SS# with loanable scores pulling credit using either. One bank requires them to be merged together and after informing the bureaus to merge the reports together I've seen scores drop after the merger. Go figure??

This article is pretty old, 2005, and the mortgage market today is vastly different since the 2008 bust. But the points about ITINs in bold below are still generally valid.

[Kang 22]

Your post makes good sense, but at the end of the day regardless of how we feel with those who have broken the rules as a nation we are much better off with finding a solution then having more than half the population simply complain about it and nothing be done about it.

I was intrigued by your post about the voting predictions. You mentioned that the middle would be pretty much red and you further mentioned that no way will CA, NY, or MA be red. Have you considered Obama's promise of Comprehensive Immigration Reform? While this new passing of not deporting non-criminal illegals and allowing illegals the ability to get work permits is a step in the right direction, do you not see a huge potential backlash on Obama in 2012 for not getting a Comprehension Immigration Reform passed? You do recognize that to the majority of hispanics his promise of Comprehensive Immigration Reform is amnsesty... nothing and nothing less. While he didn't come out and say he would get them Amnesty, I do think that is what hispanics are holding him to and anything less is a failed promise. Could you not see California turn "red" due to the backlash from hispanics?

Dead on.

His "immigration reform" is not reform but amnesty with incentives. And I suspect, he just want votes. You don't see anything about relaxing rules for children born abroad or spouses or immediate family of US citizens. Say that his immigration reform passes, a child over 21 of a US citizen will STILL have to wait TEN years to get a visa. Now, how is that "reform"? How is that "reuniting families"?

Edited October 14, 2011 by Kang

[luckytxn 2,263]

Do you realize that majority of the legal immigrants in the US are foreign spouses of US citizens? I doubt you want to prolong the visa or have caps on immediate family of a US citizen.

Never even said that or suggested that. Also the majority of legal immigrants are not the spouses of citizens. If we rid ourselves of the illegal immigrants than it would be easier to sponsor legal immigrants. Need to maybe reread what I wrote.