Red flags - some examples please

[S and R 8]

Hi everyone,

What are the obvious or suspect red flags, and how does one prepare a response to address them?

A list would be a good start.

[nane1104 146]

Someone on here made the suggestion to discuss the option to life in the alien spouses country instead of the US and see what the reaction is. A person who is out to get a greencard won't be to happy about that idea...

Red flags for me would be:

my SO is unavailable a lot of times I call

doesn't engage much in conversations

seems not interested in how I am doing

usually I am the one who stays in touch while apart

the list probably goes on and on...

[elya4848 3]

Someone on here made the suggestion to discuss the option to life in the alien spouses country instead of the US and see what the reaction is. A person who is out to get a greencard won't be to happy about that idea...

Red flags for me would be:

my SO is unavailable a lot of times I call

doesn't engage much in conversations

seems not interested in how I am doing

usually I am the one who stays in touch while apart

the list probably goes on and on...

I think you missed the point of the question!

[Barbara J 115]

Hi everyone,

What are the obvious or suspect red flags, and how does one prepare a response to address them?

A list would be a good start.

If you are worried about red flags then you must have issues about gettting a visa. Depends on what visa you are talking about too.

You need to know the person well have met in the last 2 years if it is K1 visa. You have to prove that you are in a bonafide relationship.

Australia is not usuallly a problem as we are not known as a high fraud country but if yu are hiding anyhting trust me they will suss you out. A criminal record is not good either depending on the crime .

Your quetion is fairly obscure so more detail might help us help you

[Melody and Kemal 1]

A large age difference is definitely a red flag. A couple who only has about a 3 year age difference will most likely have an easier way to go as opposed to a couple with a 15-20 year age difference.

[Darnell 8,478]

this is a list for K-1 visa applicants with interviews in Guangzhou, China:

GUZ IV red flags - http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/234971-red-flag-list-for-visa-denial/page__hl__appointment

Not the same thing, I know (K-1 vs IR-1) but some of that stuff is the same.

Have a look, when you have time?

[UrbanOptimist 0]

nane1104, on 29 March 2011 - 06:37 AM, said:

Someone on here made the suggestion to discuss the option to life in the alien spouses country instead of the US and see what the reaction is. A person who is out to get a greencard won't be to happy about that idea...

Red flags for me would be:

my SO is unavailable a lot of times I call

doesn't engage much in conversations

seems not interested in how I am doing

usually I am the one who stays in touch while apart

the list probably goes on and on...

I think you missed the point of the question!

The term "red flags" of course can apply to either a Consular Officer or a newlywed petitioner. A "red flag," for a Consular Officer (i.e., proof on an ongoing relationship, etc...) can be different from a "red flag" for a fiancee or a newlywed. In my opinion, BOTH "red flags" are worthy of mention even though the Original Post was probably referring to "red flags" as seen from the Consular Officer's eyes.

What I am most curious about is how many or what percentage of NON-bona fide marriages (scam marriage for green card purposes from the get-go) the officers have found were mutual from the onset? Sometimes, I think that in a Consular Officer's own mind, THEY REALLY BELIEVE that they see things that a naive fiancee or newlywed does not see. However, by an officer being overly cautious (thus protecting our country from the unscrupulous ilk, devoid of character) they are, in essence, not giving the average man or woman (who has at least nominal common sense) credit for having their own extra scrutinizing judgment in marrying their long distance mate.

My alluding to the Consular Officers doing their job in protecting the unsuspecting, innocent types from being victimized by calculating, criminal-minded "bad people" of course is NOT referring to the couples who are BOTH in on the scam from the onset as I would venture to guess that this probably also happens with some frequency as well.

For this reason, I think that the previous poster (who misunderstood the context of the O.P.) mentioning things like below is worthy of brief mention:

my SO is unavailable a lot of times I call

doesn't engage much in conversations

seems not interested in how I am doing

usually I am the one who stays in touch while apart

[Yes, the list probably does go on and on...]

In my opinion, these "red flag allusions" are indeed worthy of inclusion in this discussion as it serves as proof that "most of us" (who are married or engaged to a foreigner) are brighter than we are are given credit for.

I am not embarrassed to avow that in my long life, I have had "would be romantic prospects" (had correspondence with online and in some cases, met them in person) from faraway countries (incl., Russia, Philippines, Thailand, China, etc...) as here in Arizona (a meat and potatoes haven) the average person looks down on vegan males with intolerance and scorn.

[No exaggeration here, a rapist, pedophile, thief, thug, etc... will get accommodated in 100% in Arizona restaurants while a vegan man has only 4% of local eateries who might welcome and accommodate him... sad yet totally true.]

Indeed, I am truly adept of spotting red flags; some are laughable. Esp., after a week of emails, one might profess love and ask for $1,272.13 (they think because of the exact dollar amount they are being clever? lol) for an air ticket or whatever. I am truly shocked that there are guys who fall these blatant scams from the unscrupulous ilk as I quoted above. In other words, I understand that Consular Officers, in most cases, are simply doing their job. Absolutely, there is a sucker born and a victim getting taken advantage every minute (Google "Nigerian scam" for one, no offense to anyone here from Nigeria, just citing a commonly Googled example) so yes, I admit that many "potential scam marriages" were cut off at the pass at the Consulate. Great.

But sadly, just like with anything else, the "bad folks" (scammers) make it exceedingly difficult for REAL SOULMATES who are in love and fighting hard to be together at long last.

As I said on another post, "in criminal law, a man is innocent until proven guilty, but in immigration law, the burden of proof is on the petitioner."

It truly hurts me (I feel the pain of other couple's plight) to ponder the countless parents and other family members who never got to meet (they died waiting?) their first and only son or daughter in-law (or brother or sister in-law) because of endless delays caused by "the system" that is here to protect our country from the unscrupulous ilk who has a crooked agenda and know how to use the system (dollars and lawyers) to accomplish their fraudulent means. Meanwhile, the good and noble and soulful folks who were not born with a "silver spoon" and who's every act abounds with sincere and good intentions are denied several times and end up being entwined in a seemingly endless fight to be with their true soul mate. Such is life.

Good luck to everyone in love and fighting to manifest their great and noble dreams.

[Darnell 8,478]

a bit on 'how to address'

if you have red flags that might trip up a VO/CO, it's best to write up a brief outline of same in an evolution of relationship letter (brief brief brief, but reference other letters of attestation) and then include, on each red flag item, a letter of attestation covering that item (one letter of attestation for each red flag item that you think you have).

Usually, is best to include this stuff in the initial I-130 submittal, but can also squeeze it in with the DS-230 submittal at NVC - what you want is this stuff to be IN the casefile when a VO opens it and reviews it, PRIOR to interview day. The VO will read all prior to interview day, and decide prior to interview day exactly WHICH type of interview to give yer spouse (based on the contents of the casefile).

IMO, to have ONLY a packet of stuff covering the red flags, to be given on interview day, is a waste of time. The VO already has an opinion about the casefile and yer spouse, prior to the interview.

Edited March 29, 2011 by Darnell

[UrbanOptimist 0]

A large age difference is definitely a red flag. A couple who only has about a 3 year age difference will most likely have an easier way to go as opposed to a couple with a 15-20 year age difference.

A large age difference is highly subjective. Again, sometimes things might not always be the way they appear.

You say 15-20 years is large. I had always thought that over 28 years (age differential) is starting to look bad.

In cases like Woody Allen and the late Tony Randall (he was 50 years old when his future wife was born) admittedly, the age differences look quite vast.

But as anyone who has ever been to their 25 Year Class Reunion, there are classmates that look 15-20 years older (or younger) and THEY ARE THE EXACT SAME AGE as we are.

I know guys who got bald and grey in their 30s and I know others in their 50s who could pass for 39. Arguably, lifestyle, diet and genetics are offsetting elements that sometimes warrant factoring in to the age differential equation.

So, on this point, I must ask: Is the ACTUAL AGE (what is on the birth certificate) more important to Consular Officers? Or, THE WAY THAT A COUPLE APPEARS TOGETHER?

In my opinion, these are apples and oranges.

For many years, I always thought that 12-20 years (younger) was ideal for me. But then, at a pub, a guy told me his formula which is kind of funny.

HALF A MAN'S AGE PLUS 7.

Think about it.

For a 22 year old guy, half his age is 11, plus 7 = 18!

For a 50 year old guy, half his age is 25, plus 7 = 32!

Of course, I say this in partial jest with borderline humor and tongue-in-cheek subtext.

I am just pointing out that like in anything else, PERSPECTIVE is paramount in looking at other's ages.

At age 49, I met some gorgeous and genteel 22 year old ladies, while I do not care what "others think," in MY HEART AND SOUL, even though I am young in spirit (dance every song and still have not had a grey hair) something wasn't quite 111% right... (deep in my organic core) at least for the long haul (plan on dying at 92 in 2050... whatever the mind harbors, the body manifests) but my wife and I have a mere 15 year age difference (small and insignificant by my accounts) but in your opinion (of course no one is right or wrong as love and romance obviously varies for everyone on here, hence is subjective by nature) we have a large age difference, but no one really has opined this as the fact that we are true soul mates is evident even by most of the lugubrious, glass-half-empty types.

Edited March 29, 2011 by UrbanOptimist

[Darnell 8,478]

age differences are specific to consulate and country, as well.

[S and R 8]

Hi everyone,

What are the obvious or suspect red flags, and how does one prepare a response to address them?

A list would be a good start.

Thanks everyone for the quick responses.

My question is because the answers to many questions here have included ".....because you have a red flag". I thought the flags were specific events or scenarios. So, it was just a general FYI question.

[seaborn 1]

My girl just turned 27 on Feb 11th and I just turned 44 Mar 11th

Is that going to a Red Flag when she goes for her K1 interview in Ghana?

People don't believe me when I tell them I'm 44, they I say I look like I'm in

my mid 30's. when I married my first wife I was 29 and she was 42, and that was

a painful 11 years

[misswhy 0]

A large age difference is highly subjective. Again, sometimes things might not always be the way they appear.

You say 15-20 years is large. I had always thought that over 28 years (age differential) is starting to look bad.

In cases like Woody Allen and the late Tony Randall (he was 50 years old when his future wife was born) admittedly, the age differences look quite vast.

But as anyone who has ever been to their 25 Year Class Reunion, there are classmates that look 15-20 years older (or younger) and THEY ARE THE EXACT SAME AGE as we are.

I know guys who got bald and grey in their 30s and I know others in their 50s who could pass for 39. Arguably, lifestyle, diet and genetics are offsetting elements that sometimes warrant factoring in to the age differential equation.

So, on this point, I must ask: Is the ACTUAL AGE (what is on the birth certificate) more important to Consular Officers? Or, THE WAY THAT A COUPLE APPEARS TOGETHER?

In my opinion, these are apples and oranges.

For many years, I always thought that 12-20 years (younger) was ideal for me. But then, at a pub, a guy told me his formula which is kind of funny.

HALF A MAN'S AGE PLUS 7.

Think about it.

For a 22 year old guy, half his age is 11, plus 7 = 18!

For a 50 year old guy, half his age is 25, plus 7 = 32!

Of course, I say this in partial jest with borderline humor and tongue-in-cheek subtext.

I am just pointing out that like in anything else, PERSPECTIVE is paramount in looking at other's ages.

At age 49, I met some gorgeous and genteel 22 year old ladies, while I do not care what "others think," in MY HEART AND SOUL, even though I am young in spirit (dance every song and still have not had a grey hair) something wasn't quite 111% right... (deep in my organic core) at least for the long haul (plan on dying at 92 in 2050... whatever the mind harbors, the body manifests) but my wife and I have a mere 15 year age difference (small and insignificant by my accounts) but in your opinion (of course no one is right or wrong as love and romance obviously varies for everyone on here, hence is subjective by nature) we have a large age difference, but no one really has opined this as the fact that we are true soul mates is evident even by most of the lugubrious, glass-half-empty types.

Hate to say it, but it seems that the scales of equality are never balanced when the situation is reversed, when the guy is younger than the woman, even if she looks close in age to him. If a 70 year old guy, who looks very obviously 70, marries a woman much younger than he is, he is usually presumed to be successful and wealthy.. let a woman try it and there is almost always a rush to judgment of something negative.

In our case, we are 13-14 years apart, me being the older one.. and all I've heard from people is how cute we look together. I understand completely when you mention people from high school reunions - some look not much different than they did in high school, some look like they could be my mom, and some actually look better now... so I guess it all depends.

I will say I have heard of some stories where the couple was immediately judged because the wife was not only older than the husband, but she really looked the part - so of course from a physical perspective, anyone is going to ask what he sees in her and presume that it's not a real marriage. So I don't believe it's just a numerical value that is looked at, I think that appearances have a lot to do with it too. Of course I would presume most people to think twice if the couple is overly opposite in appearance.

[TBoneTX 43,536]

in a Consular Officer's own mind, THEY REALLY BELIEVE that they see things that a naive fiancee or newlywed does not see. However, by an officer being overly cautious, they are, in essence, not giving the average man or woman (who has at least nominal common sense) credit for having their own extra scrutinizing judgment in marrying their long distance mate.

This is at the center of the bull's-eye of accuracy. It should be thumbtacked to the forehead of every CO, and placed in the CO's plain view at every interview window. Si, man.

[FawkThisSite 13]

Someone on here made the suggestion to discuss the option to life in the alien spouses country instead of the US and see what the reaction is. A person who is out to get a greencard won't be to happy about that idea...

Red flags for me would be:

my SO is unavailable a lot of times I call

doesn't engage much in conversations

seems not interested in how I am doing

usually I am the one who stays in touch while apart

the list probably goes on and on...

lol, I thought the same thing! Funny you mention the "Living in the SO's country" I said that (In the very beginning)... She was excited, she didnt care either way, she just wants to be with me no matter where we are. I really liked it, and I know she loves me, just thought I would share that.