Sob story that was avoidable

[CanAmCharlotte 0]

I'm almost embarrassed to write this but my desire for no one to go through what I have endured in the past year overrides any concerns about looking stupid. The bottom line to this story is that if you are unsure of when to apply for naturalization, get an Infopass appointment, get a lawyer's opinion, or call the un-helpful line not once but a number of times to get a consensus. Be 100% sure or risk losing $675 like I did.

Here's my story.....after having my conditions removed, I called the un-helpful line, gave my dates and asked when I could apply for naturalization. The agent told me the date and I went ahead. In case you are curious, here is my timeline:

Married--Sept. 28, 2006

CR-1 visa--Oct. 15, 2006

Conditions removed--May 5, 2009

N-400 rec'd at SC--July 26, 2009

Naturalization interview--Oct. 5, 2009

When I finally went for the interview, the IO told me I wasn't eligible until Septemeber 28, 2009, the third anniversary of my wedding. I very nicely asked to speak with her manager who actually sided with me (she said the regulations are in opposition with the statutes). Unfortunately, Legal Counsel for Homeland Security agreed with the IO because statutes always override regulations. To make matters even more confusing, a Special Agent from my regional office called me out of the blue one day and told me who to complain to in Washington (he told me it was 'off the record'). He had also married a foreigner and had the exact same situation. How my case ever crossed his desk remains a mystery. I have followed his advice and the Field Operations Directorate in Washington has acknowledged my case and is looking into it. The final wild thing in all of this is that the Special Agent who advised me said the IO who interviewed me was "let go". Not sure what to make of this.

This could drag on for years. What I really want out of this is twofold: I want my initial $675 returned (yeah good luck, right?); and I want better training of the agents who answer questions at the Helpline and to be held accountable for faulty advice. (Hell, I want immigration reform while I'm at it!) I don't want to wait years for this to be resolved so reluctantly I applied again and my naturalization interview is next month.

Again, be sure of your dates before you apply. In my haste to be done with this Draconian process, I have paid a very dear price.

J

[milimelo 4,501]

I'm almost embarrassed to write this but my desire for no one to go through what I have endured in the past year overrides any concerns about looking stupid. The bottom line to this story is that if you are unsure of when to apply for naturalization, get an Infopass appointment, get a lawyer's opinion, or call the un-helpful line not once but a number of times to get a consensus. Be 100% sure or risk losing $675 like I did.

Here's my story.....after having my conditions removed, I called the un-helpful line, gave my dates and asked when I could apply for naturalization. The agent told me the date and I went ahead. In case you are curious, here is my timeline:

Married--Sept. 28, 2006

CR-1 visa--Oct. 15, 2006

Conditions removed--May 5, 2009

N-400 rec'd at SC--July 26, 2009

Naturalization interview--Oct. 5, 2009

When I finally went for the interview, the IO told me I wasn't eligible until Septemeber 28, 2009, the third anniversary of my wedding. I very nicely asked to speak with her manager who actually sided with me (she said the regulations are in opposition with the statutes). Unfortunately, Legal Counsel for Homeland Security agreed with the IO because statutes always override regulations. To make matters even more confusing, a Special Agent from my regional office called me out of the blue one day and told me who to complain to in Washington (he told me it was 'off the record'). He had also married a foreigner and had the exact same situation. How my case ever crossed his desk remains a mystery. I have followed his advice and the Field Operations Directorate in Washington has acknowledged my case and is looking into it. The final wild thing in all of this is that the Special Agent who advised me said the IO who interviewed me was "let go". Not sure what to make of this.

This could drag on for years. What I really want out of this is twofold: I want my initial $675 returned (yeah good luck, right?); and I want better training of the agents who answer questions at the Helpline and to be held accountable for faulty advice. (Hell, I want immigration reform while I'm at it!) I don't want to wait years for this to be resolved so reluctantly I applied again and my naturalization interview is next month.

Again, be sure of your dates before you apply. In my haste to be done with this Draconian process, I have paid a very dear price.

J

Have to ask - did you read the manual M-476 before sending in the application? Clearly states what conditions need to be met when filing as a spouse of a USC.

[newlyweds2010 208]

wait, I don't get it: you had your interview on October 5 2009 and you weren't eligible until September 28 2009. SO on October 5 you were eligible...

Is it because you FILED before September 28?

[payxibka 10,045]

Here's my story.....after having my conditions removed, I called the un-helpful line, gave my dates and asked when I could apply for naturalization. The agent told me the date and I went ahead. In case you are curious, here is my timeline:

Married--Sept. 28, 2006

CR-1 visa--Oct. 15, 2006

Conditions removed--May 5, 2009

N-400 rec'd at SC--July 26, 2009

Naturalization interview--Oct. 5, 2009

As I read your timeline, you are missing a very important date. What was the date you became a resident? If you entered on 10-15-06, then your were not yet eligible until the later of the three year anniversary of your marriage date or your three year anniversary of your resident since date.

Edited July 18, 2010 by payxibka

[Jolibee76 1]

Your timeline is exactly the same as mine.. When was your 1st GC issued? if it was 07 then its 3 years off that...which hence means this year you would have to apply.. mine was april 27th and my interview for citizenship is also next month. Good luck!!

[CanAmCharlotte 0]

As I read your timeline, you are missing a very important date. What was the date you became a resident? If you entered on 10-15-06, then your were not yet eligible until the later of the three year anniversary of your marriage date or your three year anniversary of your resident since date.

Yup, I entered on Oct. 15, 2006 two weeks after I got married. I'm not arguing with the USCIS that I screwed up Big Time. In hindsight, I can say I was wrong. What I'm also saying is that the Helpline gave me faulty advice and some higher ranking officers have said after the fact that it was appropriate for me to apply when I did regardless of what the CSR said. Legal Counsel for Homeland Security told me that the statutes are in opposition to the regulations and that they need reform. The Special Agent who was in my same situation got satisfaction when he went up the chain of command. I would have just dropped it if he hadn't called me unsolicited. I mean if he got his money back, hell, I feel I should at least try.

Again, bottom line, be 100% sure before you apply.

Edited July 18, 2010 by CanAmCharlotte

[antda 13]

Hi CanAmCharlotte,

Sorry to hear about your situation...

Don't worry about being embarassed to write this here, as there is nothing to be embarassed about..

From what I've read of your post and of your timeline, it looks to me that the fault here lies with the USCIS..

You did the right thing by asking in advance as to if this was ok (which they said yes to) to apply when you did, and you didn't do anything wrong by applying for citizenship 90 days minus 3 years before the 'residence since date' on your green card, as you can legally do that (which is the earliest you can apply for citizenship)....

So the problem here is with the USCIS...As they scheduled an interview date BEFORE your 3yr residence since anniversary, and because of that early interview date, your case could not be decided upon, and thus they had to reject such

In knowing that, they should have scheduled another interview AFTER the 3yr date, so that you could be approved later...

It is not your fault that they 'worked too quickly' (now that's funny) for their own good.....

If I were you, I would file another complaint with the USCIS...

As well, I would file a complaint with your local congressman and/or senator to see if they are of any help there....

You shouldn't have to pay again either, for a mistake they made.....So file a complaint about that too..

Regardless, hope this helps and good luck in your situation and good luck in getting US Citizenship soon too.

Ant

P.S. Lol..We all want real immigration reform! Hope one day that becomes a reality...Sigh...

I'm almost embarrassed to write this but my desire for no one to go through what I have endured in the past year overrides any concerns about looking stupid. The bottom line to this story is that if you are unsure of when to apply for naturalization, get an Infopass appointment, get a lawyer's opinion, or call the un-helpful line not once but a number of times to get a consensus. Be 100% sure or risk losing $675 like I did.

Here's my story.....after having my conditions removed, I called the un-helpful line, gave my dates and asked when I could apply for naturalization. The agent told me the date and I went ahead. In case you are curious, here is my timeline:

Married--Sept. 28, 2006

CR-1 visa--Oct. 15, 2006

Conditions removed--May 5, 2009

N-400 rec'd at SC--July 26, 2009

Naturalization interview--Oct. 5, 2009

When I finally went for the interview, the IO told me I wasn't eligible until Septemeber 28, 2009, the third anniversary of my wedding. I very nicely asked to speak with her manager who actually sided with me (she said the regulations are in opposition with the statutes). Unfortunately, Legal Counsel for Homeland Security agreed with the IO because statutes always override regulations. To make matters even more confusing, a Special Agent from my regional office called me out of the blue one day and told me who to complain to in Washington (he told me it was 'off the record'). He had also married a foreigner and had the exact same situation. How my case ever crossed his desk remains a mystery. I have followed his advice and the Field Operations Directorate in Washington has acknowledged my case and is looking into it. The final wild thing in all of this is that the Special Agent who advised me said the IO who interviewed me was "let go". Not sure what to make of this.

This could drag on for years. What I really want out of this is twofold: I want my initial $675 returned (yeah good luck, right?); and I want better training of the agents who answer questions at the Helpline and to be held accountable for faulty advice. (Hell, I want immigration reform while I'm at it!) I don't want to wait years for this to be resolved so reluctantly I applied again and my naturalization interview is next month.

Again, be sure of your dates before you apply. In my haste to be done with this Draconian process, I have paid a very dear price.

J

Edited July 18, 2010 by Ant+D+BabyA

[payxibka 10,045]

Yup, I entered on Oct. 15, 2006 two weeks after I got married. I'm not arguing with the USCIS that I screwed up Big Time. In hindsight, I can say I was wrong. What I'm also saying is that the Helpline gave me faulty advice and some higher ranking officers have said after the fact that it was appropriate for me to apply when I did regardless of what the CSR said. Legal Counsel for Homeland Security told me that the statutes are in opposition to the regulations and that they need reform. The Special Agent who was in my same situation got satisfaction when he went up the chain of command. I would have just dropped it if he hadn't called me unsolicited. I mean if he got his money back, hell, I feel I should at least try.

Again, bottom line, be 100% sure before you apply.

Help line is not referred to here as the MISinformation line for nothing... and the sad fact is that any information received from the information line that you relied on cannot be used as the basis of an appeal....

I guess I don't understand where the statutes are in opposition to the regulation.... It is well understood (on this site at least) that the eligibility date for naturalization based on marriage to a USC is the latest of the third anniversary of three dates (marriage, residency, USC spouse citizenship date).

[NickD 203]

What does Homeland Security have to do with the USCIS, do they even know they exist? Thought the major function of HLS was to make sure the CIA was answering phone calls from the FBI, make it impossible to travel between the USA and Canada, and to triple our police force so everyone has a better chance of receiving a traffic ticket.

USCIS has a zero tolerance when it comes to dates, have to be married for three complete years before you send in your application, but can be 90 short of your third anniversary green card date. And 90 days means 90 days, one day early and your application will be rejected. They don't say if those 90 days includes the day or your 3rd anniversary, so if you count it, better add a day and even an extra one to be sure its not early. But better be early for your appointments, 10 seconds late, can be rejected, even though you may have to sit in the waiting room 3 1/2 hours before being called in, speaking from experience on this point.

Certainly clear about when a kid turns 18 as to whether they can tailgate the parent, but not when they turn 18, is it before the day of the application can be sent in, the day of the interview, or the day of the oath ceremony they have to below the age of 18? I called on this one, just wait another couple of years and pay the extra 675 bucks fee, that is the safest way. And we have to be safe.

If you read the small print on the forms, you application can be rejected, fee kept if any errors or omissions on the form, that even include not adding N/A to those blanks that are not even close to applying to you. If you are a sponsoring USC with errors or white lies, can be fined $250,000.00 and spend five years in prison, USCIS is really not there to protect USC from fraud, but to hang them if fraud is caught. Kind of makes a guy paranoid. So you read the N-400 instructions and the M-476 with a fine tooth comb. Some of the questions twist your brain, so you either contact an attorney, or come here for recommendations.

[payxibka 10,045]

What does Homeland Security have to do with the USCIS, do they even know they exist?

United States Citizenship and Immigration Service is a part of the Department of Homeland Security... So yes, they certainly know they exist.

Agencies within DHS also include the TSA, CBP & ICE as well

http://www.dhs.gov/xabout/structure/

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

Sorry,

but you were just stating the obvious. Lessons to be learned:

1) Read the instructions, especially when it comes to something so eminently important as citizenship

2) Don't trust a government drone, neither at the SSA, nor at the DMV

2) After 20, 30, 40, or in my case over 50 years on planet Earth, don't wait in front of the post office the night before you assume you are eligible to file. Take it easy and give yourself some breathing room, as in a few weeks or even a couple of months. Unlike with ROC, there is no deadline to file.

[Krikit 1,164]

Sorry to hear of your situation, Charlotte. Hope your actions see some results. Glad you posted because it's always good to have firsthand examples of where things can go wrong. Good luck.

[sasaqlain 24]

Sorry to hear about your situation. I am not sure, if you can see even a penny back from USCIS once its in their kitty, but my prayers are with you. Be glad your ordeal will soon come to an end and think of it as an investment that went bad. Good Luck!

[NickD 203]

United States Citizenship and Immigration Service is a part of the Department of Homeland Security... So yes, they certainly know they exist.

Agencies within DHS also include the TSA, CBP & ICE as well

http://www.dhs.gov/xabout/structure/

Was being facetious about the the DHS, but literally fell off my chair when problems occurred between the CIA and the FBI with a solution of creating yet another agency. At one time in this country, agencies only had an advisory position to congress. In the last 40 years, over 1,500 new agencies have been created with law making power your congressman is not even aware of. The CBP for one has literally torn up the US Constitution and burned the remaining pieces, but hey, this is for your safety. If you have worked in automotive engineering, can go nuts in trying to please all the agencies involved.

But apparently the OP going to the DHS didn't do any good which is why I posted, does the DHS even know the USCIS exists?

Couldn't find a published copy of the Guide to Naturalization, so had to download it and print it out. Read every page and was nice of them to combine every possible scenario into one book. Very little of those 68 pages applied to us, so using Adobe Arcobat, copied the text that applied to us and pasted it to Word, end up with three sheets that applied to us, and checked those off before sending in the application. Did the same for the N-400 instructions that contain important details the M-476 did not, and copied key information from http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=480ccac09aa5d010VgnVCM10000048f3d6a1RCRD&vgnextchannel=db029c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD that applied to us.

I found this at the end of the N-400 to be amusing:

"An agency may not conduct or sponsor an information collection and a person is not required to respond to a collection of information unless it displays a currently valid OMB control number. The public reporting burden for this collection of information is estimated at 6 hour and 8 minutes per response, including the time for reviewing instructions, completing, and submitting the form."

[jasminelily 1]

I'm almost embarrassed to write this but my desire for no one to go through what I have endured in the past year overrides any concerns about looking stupid. The bottom line to this story is that if you are unsure of when to apply for naturalization, get an Infopass appointment, get a lawyer's opinion, or call the un-helpful line not once but a number of times to get a consensus. Be 100% sure or risk losing $675 like I did.

Here's my story.....after having my conditions removed, I called the un-helpful line, gave my dates and asked when I could apply for naturalization. The agent told me the date and I went ahead. In case you are curious, here is my timeline:

Married--Sept. 28, 2006

CR-1 visa--Oct. 15, 2006

Conditions removed--May 5, 2009

N-400 rec'd at SC--July 26, 2009

Naturalization interview--Oct. 5, 2009

When I finally went for the interview, the IO told me I wasn't eligible until Septemeber 28, 2009, the third anniversary of my wedding. I very nicely asked to speak with her manager who actually sided with me (she said the regulations are in opposition with the statutes). Unfortunately, Legal Counsel for Homeland Security agreed with the IO because statutes always override regulations. To make matters even more confusing, a Special Agent from my regional office called me out of the blue one day and told me who to complain to in Washington (he told me it was 'off the record'). He had also married a foreigner and had the exact same situation. How my case ever crossed his desk remains a mystery. I have followed his advice and the Field Operations Directorate in Washington has acknowledged my case and is looking into it. The final wild thing in all of this is that the Special Agent who advised me said the IO who interviewed me was "let go". Not sure what to make of this.

This could drag on for years. What I really want out of this is twofold: I want my initial $675 returned (yeah good luck, right?); and I want better training of the agents who answer questions at the Helpline and to be held accountable for faulty advice. (Hell, I want immigration reform while I'm at it!) I don't want to wait years for this to be resolved so reluctantly I applied again and my naturalization interview is next month.

Again, be sure of your dates before you apply. In my haste to be done with this Draconian process, I have paid a very dear price.

J

I'm very sorry to hear about your situation! And please don't feel embarrassed, lots of immigrants make different kind of mistakes everyday! So what the IO saying was "based on the status, you won't be eligible until Oct. 15, 2009"? If your interview date was Oct. 5, 2009, could they just arrange a second interview like 10 days later? That's just really harsh! A bit of luck wasn't siding with you either, if they could have somehow delay your interview or if you realized this and re-arrange your interview for whatever reason to 10 days later, then you could have been approved. I hope your application this time will go smooth!