How to legally immigrate to America.

[^_^ 5,021]

"Actually being able to move freely is a human rights." =/= "immigrating to the US is ... a human right."

Freedom of movement is a human right. Immigrating to US is a privilage. US is well within its rights to say no to anyone for valid reason. Please don't project your inherent lunacy and idiocy on me. I'm way much of a humanist to be a hick like you.

If freedom of movement is a human right, then wouldn't freedom of movement into the United States also be a human right?

I agree, however, when it comes to immigration issues and policies, attitudes expressed on this immigration site about who should or shouldn't be here are often contradictory.

Yes.

[sachinky 464]

The US just like every other country on this planet restricts, regulates and controls immigration and has every right to do so. It is not different from any other country in this respect.

The UN Human Charter--and yes, I've read it--allows you the freedom of movement. But the way I was taught in PolSki classes in college (good times!) is that it allows you freedom of movement within your own country (state) of which you are a citizen. So tomorrow if I get tired of living in Calcutta, I can just pack my bags and move to Delhi. However, I can't pack my bags and move to Paris next week just 'cause I like French wine and have a thing for French hotties.

You do have the right to escape persecution (religious and otherwise) and many folks apply for asylum under refugee status and the U.S. does allow for that provision. Also, as someone pointed out, you do have the opportunity to 'seek' entry, doesn't automatically mean you are allowed to enter and/or entitled to it.

While there are plenty who seemingly live in a world where everyone holds hands and sings 'Kumbaya,' in reality, the U.S. can't open it's door to every unskilled, average-educated, poor but hard-working person who would give their right arm to live in the U.S. just because they want to and think they are somehow entitled to it.

Subsection 2 of Article 13 states that you have the right to leave a country. You do. That would mean that the Indian government can't stop me from leaving India (unless, I've committed a crime, etc). However, that doesn't automatically mean that the U.S. 'has to' give me right of entry. And tomorrow, should I want to return to India, after my many misadventures, the Indian government HAS TO let me in. Big distinction.

Let's all take a look at Article 13 and 14 of the UN Charter of Human Rights, yes?

Article 13.

•(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.

•(2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.

Article 14.

•(1) Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.

•(2) This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

Edited July 7, 2010 by sachinky

[^_^ 5,021]

More importantly, who gives a rats behind what that commie institution called the UN thinks about anything?

[Ban Hammer 12,839]

No **, Sherlock. Noone ever said that. But it's everyone's rights to seek residence in another country. Everyone should be able to leave their country if they desire. It's all part of human rights charter, which I'm sure you never ever read in your life. I recommand you read it every night before going to sleep over whatever fictional book you read.

so if someone can't emigrate, they should contact the un?

[IndigoSkies 168]

so if someone can't emigrate, they should contact the UN?

They should. But nothing will be done until a lot of people from that specific geographic area complain. UN also doesn't have a military force to enforce its resolutions. It's only means of enforcement is WTO. Then veto countries ruin it. To be honest, UN could use some reform. But again veto countries veto reform because they don't want to let go of their powers. Victims of human rights should also contact ICJ.

More importantly, who gives a rats behind what that commie institution called the UN thinks about anything?

You don't but countries who signed the charter should give a damn about it. Honestly though, they don't. That's why UN can't do ####### about #######.

More importantly, who gives a rats behind what that commie institution called the UN thinks about anything?

You don't but countries who signed the charter should give a damn about it. Honestly though, they don't. That's why UN can't do ####### about #######.

Everyone went off topic. You still didn't answer how a normal person from anywhere in the world can immigrate to America. America didn't say "No Immigration" If such was the case, I wouldn't be asking this. I'm only asking in light of our Republinca cronies insisting that there's a legal way to move to America. There seem to be none or one that make sense. Hence is why so many people come to America illegally.

Edited July 7, 2010 by IndigoSkies

[^_^ 5,021]

... countries who signed the charter should give a damn about it.

No, they shouldn't.

[Moonandstar 6]

Everyone went off topic. You still didn't answer how a normal person from anywhere in the world can immigrate to America. America didn't say "No Immigration" If such was the case, I wouldn't be asking this. I'm only asking in light of our Republinca cronies insisting that there's a legal way to move to America. There seem to be none or one that make sense. Hence is why so many people come to America illegally.

Off topic? Thats because the only real 'answer' to this trick question IS off topic:

There is'nt, and anyone who says there is dosent know what their talking about.

America never said "no immigration", but i also dont recall it having said, "immigration for all who wants it" ever since the Alien registration act was passed in 1940- a good 70 years ago.

Also, the inscription on the statue of liberty is up for debate, but i hardly believe that when the alien registration act was passed, the government made it a priority to amend all government property to coincide with the new law.

Perhaps in some peoples mind's they should....

Edited July 7, 2010 by Moonandstar

[sachinky 464]

An average-Joe, normal person from anywhere in this world who really has no reason (apart from the noble sentiment 'I want to better my life') to come to America CANNOT move to the US. There IS no way. I don't see where 'America' claimed it as such. There ARE plenty of legal avenues to come to the US, with visa categories ranging from A-Z but no, you're right, there is no 'just because I want to' visa. Are you advocating there should be a 'I am hard-working and want to earn more $ than I would at my unskilled job in a Third World country' visa?

This isn't a free-for-all. And just because this isn't a 'free for all' doesn't mean it should automatically translate to 'NO IMMIGRATION. AT ALL.' You're talking about two extremes.

Edited July 7, 2010 by sachinky

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

"Actually being able to move freely is a human rights." =/= "immigrating to the US is not a human right."

Freedom of movement is a human right. Immigrating to US is a privilage. US is well within its rights to say no to anyone for valid reason. Please don't project your inherent lunacy and idiocy on me. I'm way much of a humanist to be a hick like you.

Actually they do not need a "valid reason" or ANY reason.

There are many ways to immigrate. The visa lottery is one. Sponsored work visas are another. You can also receive a green card for investing $1 million or more in a US business (as little as $500,000 in some states) We know a man from Russia that invested $500,000 in a ski resort here and now has mansions in Vermont and Florida and immigrated with his wife and two daughters.

While LEAVING your country may be a right, or should be, entering another is NOT. The human rights document you mention is NOT the law. You do not have to like it.

[Mononoke28 134]

There isn't a right or wrong answer to such a big and important question. It's a situation that will never go away as human beings are conditioned to look for better pastures wherever they please. That's just how we've been rolling since we came into existence.

You can't deport all 12 million undocumented immigrants, it's a very romantic thought of "cleaning up" the country but not realistic by any means. So most people will talk about it and say they have to leave or else until they're blue in the face, it won't happen. Deal with it. It's just like drugs, they're here to stay.

Diana

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

So let me understand...

A biased person poses a question and if the collective minds of the VJ off-topic forum cannot give an answer staisfactory to YOU, the US policy should be null and void?

The US has a pretty solid policy of immigration and here is a little tidbit that will brighten your day...Family visas have priority and actually are taken OUT of the visas issued on an overall basis. YOUR visa (or your spouse's) actually prevented another person from "moving freely". While there is no limit, per se, on family visas, they ARE included in the total of legal immigrations allowed each year. If everyone goes the family visa route, for example, the lottery visas will be reduced or eliminated.

YOU, for example could turn in your green card and return to your country...you are FREE to move...and make room for someone else. Apre vous...

Illegal immigration is caused by an economic incentive, NOT by laws. Illegals are not here illegally because there is "no other way" they are here because they can make money. More money than in their home country. They are here because the penalty for abusing and exploiting them for profit is less than the profit for abusing and exploiting them. Coming here illegally is faster than coming here legally which means longer time making more money. Illegals can come here without speaking the language and get jobs for half minimum wage. They cannot come legally and get jobs because who will pay them FULL PRICE if they don't speak the language? I mean, you cannot sell a Hyundai for a Mercedes price and claim that now the Hyundai is a luxury car.

Racists are perfectly fine with this. They do not care that races of people are held, basically in bondage in service to fat, profiteering capitalists. They will defend their "right to move freely" but not their right to have safe working conditions or decent wages. Very strange. Racists believe minimum wage, work safety rules (OHSA), fringe benefits and even paid vacation are NOT for "brown people" THEY can work for longer hours, low wages, no benefits...for OUR benefit. And you want MORE of them to be exploited?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

There isn't a right or wrong answer to such a big and important question. It's a situation that will never go away as human beings are conditioned to look for better pastures wherever they please. That's just how we've been rolling since we came into existence.

You can't deport all 12 million undocumented immigrants, it's a very romantic thought of "cleaning up" the country but not realistic by any means. So most people will talk about it and say they have to leave or else until they're blue in the face, it won't happen. Deal with it. It's just like drugs, they're here to stay.

Diana

You do not HAVE to deport anyone.

Apply a $500,000 PER DAY/PER ILLEGAL tax on anyone hiring illegals and seize their proerty to pay the tax. You hire an illegal to cut your lawn...you lose your house! You hire illegals to work in a chicken plucking factory...you lose the factory and the company goes bankrupt and is forced to seel all assets to pay the tax. NO ONE will hire an illegal.

The illegals will "self deport"

Why on earth would anyone be against severly punishing employers that hire illegals to exploit them and line their pockets?

[rika60607 215]

This sounds like Dr. Who scenario in the making

You do not HAVE to deport anyone.

Apply a $500,000 PER DAY/PER ILLEGAL tax on anyone hiring illegals and seize their proerty to pay the tax. You hire an illegal to cut your lawn...you lose your house! You hire illegals to work in a chicken plucking factory...you lose the factory and the company goes bankrupt and is forced to seel all assets to pay the tax. NO ONE will hire an illegal.

The illegals will "self deport"

Why on earth would anyone be against severly punishing employers that hire illegals to exploit them and line their pockets?

[mawilson 2,133]

Apply a $500,000 PER DAY/PER ILLEGAL tax on anyone hiring illegals and seize their proerty to pay the tax. You hire an illegal to cut your lawn...you lose your house! You hire illegals to work in a chicken plucking factory...you lose the factory and the company goes bankrupt and is forced to seel all assets to pay the tax. NO ONE will hire an illegal.

And what if you hire an illegal who stole someone's identity and appears to have all the right papers?

Are you going to hire a private investigator and run a full background check on every kid who cuts your lawn?

Still think you should lose your house?

[Darnell 8,478]

Is this person (in question) from Bangladesh ?

I notice a long term migration pattern from Bangladesh to Tanzania to Australia, over these past 40 years.

Perhaps this person should mimic that pattern ? Australia is the do-all, be-all, end-all place to be this century, for immigrants who are willing to work.

IMO, get to Tanzania, get set up for work there, work like demon, go to Australia for university, then settle down in Australia for bigger work.

But hei - I only suggesting that this person DO what's been done before, as it's (apparently) still working.