Attitudes of Posters

[bakofoil 27]

Thanks!

I do get your point - about 'cutting your teeth' on such things. I suppose my frustration is partially due to having been around here for such a long time.

But at the same time, I was also a noob at one point -- and I took the time and trouble to use the materials that were painstakingly created for just that purpose (guides, flowcharts, 'know your options', FAQs, etc). Not only did I think I should - just so I would understand exactly what the process entailed - but also because they were obviously placed there to lead me in the right direction.

I suppose my 'failing' is I expect/want others to do the same thing I did, esp. as it only took me maybe a few hours of reading before I understood what was what and which option made the most sense for us at the time. Isn't it always better to come from a semi educated place and THEN ask questions? Maybe I'm too self reliant for my own good though.

*edited for clarity*

You're welcome!

Actually, I did too. I was so scared, at first, of being lambasted for asking a stupid question that I did take the time and trouble to read the guides. I joined a bit later than you, probably a short time before you took a break from the BS. I don't think it's a failing at all to want people to use the board in its entirety and to its potential. The guides, FAQs, timelines and such are such a valuable source of information and new users should definitely be guided there. I totally agree with all your points about reading and then asking questions.

My annoyance is not with those who are experienced and generally constructive about pointing people in the right direction. My pet peeve is with those personalities who take on an expert, negative and impatient tone with anyone below them in the immigration food chain and also get defensive with those who may well be qualified to correct them on the quality of their information.

As a point of interest, whenever I've had a complicated question to ask it has usually been better served on some of the other immigration boards, which tend to be less judgemental and where many of the good people from VJ took a break from the BS.

[TracyTN 237]

My annoyance is not with those who are experienced and generally constructive about pointing people in the right direction. My pet peeve is with those personalities who take on an expert, negative and impatient tone with anyone below them in the immigration food chain and also get defensive with those who may well be qualified to correct them on the quality of their information.

As a point of interest, whenever I've had a complicated question to ask it has usually been better served on some of the other immigration boards, which tend to be less judgemental and where many of the good people from VJ took a break from the BS.

Yeah - it's harder for some to apply the 'if you can't say anything nice' rule than others. Though all of us have our bad days I suppose!

I mod one of those other boards you mention - it was a welcome relief (still is)!

[Kathryn41 3,205]

I find it somewhat ironic that I am having to issue a warning against name-calling, insults and personal attacks in a thread devoted to discussing the negative attitudes of some posters on VJ. Never-the-less, I am doing so. Insults and personal attacks accomplish nothing as well as being violations of the Terms of Service for Visa Journey. Please be courteous with your responses.

[besaangel 18]

interesting response, given the below directed at nagi.

Do you and Nag have anything better to do than to go around trying to insult me with your posts. There is always too sides but of course you quote mine and not Nag's... Unfortunately for you this is JUST A FORUM so I'll say what I will and you comment on them- since it makes u feel better

Edited March 24, 2010 by besaangel

[Mags 112]

And, regardless of accuracy rating (which has nothing to do with toxicity), pushbrk is here and RJ is not.

By her own choice.

[TBoneTX 48,077]

By her own choice.

Some have such choices thrust upon them. At any rate (in my opinion; yours differs), excellent riddance, and perhaps the moderators and even Admiral Ewok may agree. Edited March 25, 2010 by TBoneTX

[NArocks 13]

I find it somewhat ironic that I am having to issue a warning against name-calling, insults and personal attacks in a thread devoted to discussing the negative attitudes of some posters on VJ. Never-the-less, I am doing so. Insults and personal attacks accomplish nothing as well as being violations of the Terms of Service for Visa Journey. Please be courteous with your responses.

[Rob and Jill 82]

The internet is a room with no windows. If you could sit around and do anything you wanted to anyone without someone seeing it or your being held responsible for it, what would you do? The real life equivalent is a message board.

I had a problem without someone I felt was extremely rude when I first started here. I used the search function. I read a lot of stuff before I ever asked a question, and the first response to the first question I ever asked was basically "I moved your post for posting it wrong go read the guides."

Some of the people are very rude on these boards and a lot of it is completely unnecessary. If they don't want to answer the same questions over and over again, there is a simple solution: Don't answer them. However, using repetitive answering as an excuse for being a grouch is really a lame excuse. Your answer could be typed into a Word file and opened before you ever logged on. Copy, Paste, and go about your day, or ignore it if you don't want to answer it, but being rude for the sake of being rude is absurd.

Perhaps a lot of these little trival annoyances could be resolved by the admin sending something out in the email confirmation that says "Thank you for joining here is a link to our guide sections. Please read it to ease your learning process".

Everyone here just needs to remember that the internet is full of real people, and just as there are a ton of great people in the world, there are just as many jackasses who have nothing better to do with their time than harass you.

[Fandango 1,440]

This post must be the one you're referring to. I don't think payxibka was being rude, just being straight-up with you. And I'm also not trying to be rude here, but the question you asked (when can my K1 recipient start working) is, if not the number one question on Visa Journey, then certainly in the top 5. You said you searched and read, but obviously not very much. A simple search, reading the guides, or just trolling the forums would have answered this question within minutes. Given the question, it's my opinion that you were treated exceptionally kindly.

I also want to point out that you weren't treated as rudely as you think. I agree that we need to remember there are real people behind the keyboards here, but there are two sides to that coin. Everyone here has a limited amount of personal bandwidth, so people looking for answers need to be a little more proactive before wasting everyone's time by asking a question that's been asked and answered a zillion times before. If your question was handled a little tersely, well...there's a reason. But also recognize that asking dumb questions and getting slapped around a little bit is just part of the process. Don't take it personal. Live and learn, and before you have your first heart you'll be slapping others around just like a pro. It's why we're here. To slap.

Gah, the new Veej, dunno how to multiquote!

I agree with mox completely here...no way was that 'extremely rude'...and I think this is the perfect example of a bit of (what I see as) oversensitivity which trivializes the concept of rudeness here on the boards. Of course, different people, different perspectives....brings to mind the phrase 'how long is a piece of string?'

To add to my earlier post as it's not seen as being overly harsh...it's not like I haven't seen certain instances of overt rudeness here, but most times, when this topic comes up, I see it more as rampant in cases such as these....one person thinks it's 'incredibly rude' while others think it's 'incredibly kind'. So when you have vast differences of opinions, how can Ewok or the mods make some sort of universal decision on 'rudeness' when we can't even agree what that means?

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

This post must be the one you're referring to. I don't think payxibka was being rude, just being straight-up with you. And I'm also not trying to be rude here, but the question you asked (when can my K1 recipient start working) is, if not the number one question on Visa Journey, then certainly in the top 5. You said you searched and read, but obviously not very much. A simple search, reading the guides, or just trolling the forums would have answered this question within minutes. Given the question, it's my opinion that you were treated exceptionally kindly.

I also want to point out that you weren't treated as rudely as you think. I agree that we need to remember there are real people behind the keyboards here, but there are two sides to that coin. Everyone here has a limited amount of personal bandwidth, so people looking for answers need to be a little more proactive before wasting everyone's time by asking a question that's been asked and answered a zillion times before. If your question was handled a little tersely, well...there's a reason. But also recognize that asking dumb questions and getting slapped around a little bit is just part of the process. Don't take it personal. Live and learn, and before you have your first heart you'll be slapping others around just like a pro. It's why we're here. To slap.

Pay wasn't being rude. He was being abrupt. Different people will have a different tolerance for abruptness.

As far as handling members who ask rhetorical questions, and those members who think they shouldn't, I like the last post in the thread mox found. Of course part of that is because I really like the lady who wrote it. She has a lot of class.

"But now the answer you are requesting is not a complete answer. The reason 'it has been discussed ad nauseum' is *because* it's a complex question that can't accurately be answered with "EAD".

However, if you're happy with just that, it's fine.

I guess I would say to you, the answer depends on what *result* you want. You've now said that getting (him) here fastest is most important, so that's the result you're after.

The frustrating thing about this process is that there is more than one way to accomplish most things, and if you want to DIY, you have to accept that, do the painful research and arrive at the right conclusions for YOUR family. It's not like many things that are just black/white, on/off etc.

The Guides are usually a good combination of the official names for things, and the common names, so that you can put them together.

FWIW, I find I learn new things best when I actually write out what I'm trying to retain. I think they told me I'm a 'kinesthetic learner'. "

*edited for clarity*

Edited March 25, 2010 by JohnnyQuest

[meauxna 15]

As far as handling members who ask rhetorical questions, and those members who think they shouldn't, I like the last post in the thread mox found. Of course part of that is because I really like the lady who wrote it. She has a lot of class.

Wow, weird. I drop by for one of my every-couple-o'month drivebys and find this post: Thank you.

Thank you for the kind words, and the gut check. I like to read threads like these to stay in touch with what people think, and how I 'sound' when read. I don't always live up to the great reputation you've thrown down for me (but I appreciate the reminder!).

The internet and the way people use message boards has changed radically in the years I've been doing it. Rapidly in the years since I started with immigration topics. People simply aren't willing to put the research required into DIY. They think it's like asking how to wire up your surround sound, and some 'expert' can just post 5 lines of instruction. The good news is, that works out for the majority of people.

It's a bummer for the ones who have more complexity to their cases.

I don't know the answer, but I know the tone around here *in general* continues to put me off enough to stay away most of the time. I don't have the same problem with the many other message boards I use.

Just sayin'.

PS: I notice that Rob and Jill, in that linked thread never did come back to show any understanding or appreciation of what I was saying there. Seems inconsistent with your post here today. Real people tried to have a real conversation with you.

[LaL 418]

^^ Edited March 25, 2010 by LaL

[Fandango 1,440]

I Mo! How have you been???

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

meauxna!!!

(We should start a "We Love meauxna!" thread to keep this one on topic. )

[bakofoil 27]

Yes, if everyone had as much class as meauxna and appreciated that different people have different ways of going about obtaining and understanding the information they need, well this might be another immigration board altogether.

I also think Payxibka was simply organising. Moving posts almost always helps raise the profile of a particular question and places it in an area where those with expertise or a particular interest in that topic might find it more easily.