divorcing US citizen

[Bobby+Umit 161]

Thought that too, but it doesn't read that way to me in the I-864 instructions. Also saw this on a quick web search (more and more case law where aliens are being awarded support based on the I-864 contract):

http://www.ricefamilylaw.com/articles/inte...gration-law.htm

If the beneficiary never takes "means tested benefits" - the government will not help this person sue the sponsor for support unless it falls under that umbrella..

The beneficiary will have to sue the sponsor in family court (divorce court perhaps - as we both mentioned) and hope the judge awards them support via the 864. (for any support, means tested or not)

[VanessaTony 3,567]

The way I read that says the "agency" providing benefits may sue you (sponsor), not the beneficiary.

So Jim is correct IMO.

(Jim is also correct - there are a few cases where the benificiary managed to get money off the sponsor, using the 864, in divorce court)

I'm sorry I don't mean to be rude but are you serious??? How do you read this sentence as "the agency"?

"If you do not provide sufficient support to the person who becomes a permanent resident based on the Form I-864 that you signed, that person may sue you for this support."

The next paragraph (thus distinguishing between the previous statement and this one) discusses the agencies etc.

There is absolutely no way to confuse this matter. It is simply that YES, the person that you said you would support can sue you for this support. It isn't a case of "the way I read it" unless your grasp of the english language is limited. I'm not trying to be rude but the simple fact is, it's there, in black and white, CLEARLY written and easy to understand. The only point of contention being the term "may" because ultimately it's up to the courts and I would think that if I earn $50,000 a year but you earn $30000 (and i'm suing you 'cause you're not giving me money) then it's less likely that a judgement will be made against the person earning less who signed that form... of course assuming no children or other matters involved.

Source: my sister is a lawyer and I work in law. Litigation specifically.

Edited January 4, 2010 by Vanessa&Tony

[Bobby+Umit 161]

I'm sorry I don't mean to be rude but are you serious??? How do you read this sentence as "the agency"?

"If you do not provide sufficient support to the person who becomes a permanent resident based on the Form I-864 that you signed, that person may sue you for this support."

The next paragraph (thus distinguishing between the previous statement and this one) discusses the agencies etc.

There is absolutely no way to confuse this matter. It is simply that YES, the person that you said you would support can sue you for this support. It isn't a case of "the way I read it" unless your grasp of the english language is limited. I'm not trying to be rude but the simple fact is, it's there, in black and white, CLEARLY written and easy to understand. The only point of contention being the term "may" because ultimately it's up to the courts and I would think that if I earn $50,000 a year but you earn $30000 (and i'm suing you 'cause you're not giving me money) then it's less likely that a judgement will be made against the person earning less who signed that form... of course assuming no children or other matters involved.

Source: my sister is a lawyer and I work in law. Litigation specifically.

*Sigh*

Re-read my posts. I am talking about the "government" not the beneficiary.

Yes - that person can sue you for support. (In divorce court/family court) (even talked about that above) and they may be even lucky to get the judge to use the 864 - there are even a few cases where that happened. There are a lot of cases where it wasn't even considered (864 is a contract between the US government and the sponsor - something along that line)

However, as I posted, the 864 is primarily used by the government (agency) to determine if the beneficiary will become a dependent of said agencies. (using "means tested benefits")

Nowhere does it say you have to provide X amount of your salary to make up any "difference" of the benificiary.

The government does not help you in that case. They are only concerned about the means tested benefits your beneficiary may of used. (Nothing more).

You are connecting two different things (individual suing and the government suing) - My post was discussing the government (agencies) side of it.

Which is what I believe Jim was going for in his post, and which I agree with.

(BTW - if you think you are "rude", then you probably are.)

Edited January 4, 2010 by Bobby_Umit

[Genji 0]

1) This one is most important. I would recommend that you IMMEDIATELY contact the local welfare office and request emergency assistance to keep your baby cared for citing that your husband was the sole provider and has "abandoned" the family. Using the term abandoned or abandonment is very important when you make the filing. It will send off all kinds of red flags and the government is likely to go after him in a hot minute. You will be able to get by for now and the the government will go after him big-time to get their money back.

2) You mentioned he thinks he would be off the child support hook if you go back home. You may be able to use that to your advantage (if not now, then when social services comes knocking on his door). Perhaps you can convince him to give you a signed AND NOTARIZED letter stating that you have his permission to take the child back to your home country to live. If so, you can take baby back to stay with your family and keep that letter somewhere very safe.

3) For legal assistance you have a few options. a) His employer likely has an Employee Assistance Program. As his spouse you have access to this free service without needing his approval. Just call the main number for his company and ask whether they have an EAP and what is the contact info. Free legal consultations are almost always included in EAP benefits. (I used to work for EAPs) B) Your town likely has some type of Legal Aid Society that helps people who can't afford to hire attorneys. Or c) Many attorneys will offer free initial consultations and some attorneys will agree to cork with payment contingent on successful outcome (they get a %). Some also take on some pro-bono (no charge) clients.

I would also like to apologize to you as both a US citizen and as a male, that one of my fellow citizens is enough of a ####### enough to abandon you and your baby when he is your sole support. Yes marriages fail, but that doesn't wash away obligations we agree to of our own free will.

Hope some of this helps you.

[leith@Ievgeniia 8]

try catholic charities. they can assist with food, and legal help. and that is firs that is needed!!

then bring him to cleaners!! sounds like he would let you go back to your country and sign away any rights he has. to get off hook for any finical oblications!!

Catholic Charities!!! and with green card find some type of job so you can make some money to eat and start to feel like a person again. he has taken away your self respect and not even feeling like person!!

be strong and start thinking clearly.

[brownbuttlover 0]

Hi,

I got married to a US citizen early 2008 after receiving a K1visa.

We have a baby born -preemie- 5months ago.

My husband has left the household 2 months ago stating he was going to a hotel.

He told me over the phone that he was filing for divorce citing inrreconciliable differences. I am alone in our flat in the US with my little baby boy & feeling acutely distraught. I have no family in the US. I do not work as my husband was providing for us. I cannot drive & feel extremely alone & isolated & helpless just caring for baby.

What can I do to go back home with baby? I am getting worn out here alone with baby. He wrote me an email to drive us to the airport the day after he left. I know he wants joint legal custody and not pay spousal support for me when I go back. He has been so inhuman I do not have any breastmilk for my baby and the harsh weather conditions where we live are starting to affect baby and me.

Can you please help? Who can help us? I just want to go home with my baby.

Thanks

ema where u living at?have u tried working things out with ur hubby?there was love there at one time im sure,try to work it out.u might not be permitted to move far from him with the child,he could get custody of the child to if he can show better support.good luck

[ravenbow 0]

Cheshire v Cheshire (FL) and Stump v Stump (IN) are two commonly cited cased from about 4 or so years ago.... It would be nice to see if there are more recent cases upholding this or maybe the courts have finally seen the errors of these decisions...

you need to contact social services in the county you live in..It should be in the yellow pages, or search for it online..tell them your situation and they will make sure that you are in touch with the proper authorities and get you the help you need, and they will most likely find the ahole that left you..

[christeen 966]

ema where u living at?have u tried working things out with ur hubby?there was love there at one time im sure,try to work it out.u might not be permitted to move far from him with the child,he could get custody of the child to if he can show better support.good luck

Are You Serious??? What frickin planet do you live on?? The "fartin rainbows planet" He said he is filing for divorce and leaving her with the new baby!!! How can SHE try to reconsile??? Regardless of what happens between the two of them, how do you abandon a baby like that and leave your baby without support and how does she forget that?? It would always be an issue...

to the OP... others have given you great suggestions on where to start... Best with everything... You sound like a strong person and mother so you do what you need to do for your baby... Good luck...

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Are You Serious??? What frickin planet do you live on?? The "fartin rainbows planet" He said he is filing for divorce and leaving her with the new baby!!! How can SHE try to reconsile??? Regardless of what happens between the two of them, how do you abandon a baby like that and leave your baby without support and how does she forget that?? It would always be an issue...

to the OP... others have given you great suggestions on where to start... Best with everything... You sound like a strong person and mother so you do what you need to do for your baby... Good luck...

OMG I had to reply. That "fartin rainbows planet" thing is HILARIOUS but I agree with your sentiment... rofl... rainbows...

[elmcitymaven 9,711]

*Sigh*

Re-read my posts. I am talking about the "government" not the beneficiary.

Yes - that person can sue you for support. (In divorce court/family court) (even talked about that above) and they may be even lucky to get the judge to use the 864 - there are even a few cases where that happened. There are a lot of cases where it wasn't even considered (864 is a contract between the US government and the sponsor - something along that line)

However, as I posted, the 864 is primarily used by the government (agency) to determine if the beneficiary will become a dependent of said agencies. (using "means tested benefits")

Nowhere does it say you have to provide X amount of your salary to make up any "difference" of the benificiary.

The government does not help you in that case. They are only concerned about the means tested benefits your beneficiary may of used. (Nothing more).

You are connecting two different things (individual suing and the government suing) - My post was discussing the government (agencies) side of it.

Exactly. The I-864 is a contract between two parties -- the US government and the sponsor. The beneficiary is not a party to this contract, so any damages that flow from violation of the contract do not accrue to (or indeed from) the beneficiary. As Bobby says, it is more than possible for the beneficiary to sue the sponsor through another method for support, but since the beneficiary has no rights to sue the sponsor for support under the contract of the I-864, it cannot be used as the basis of the claim for damages. Courts might use an I-864 as part of evidentiary proof that the sponsor had intended to provide support to the beneficiary, but it cannot be used as the basis of a claim by the beneficiary.

[Ema 0]

Hi,

I got married to a US citizen early 2008 after receiving a K1visa.

We have a baby born -preemie- 5months ago.

My husband has left the household 2 months ago stating he was going to a hotel.

He told me over the phone that he was filing for divorce citing inrreconciliable differences. I am alone in our flat in the US with my little baby boy & feeling acutely distraught. I have no family in the US. I do not work as my husband was providing for us. I cannot drive & feel extremely alone & isolated & helpless just caring for baby.

What can I do to go back home with baby? I am getting worn out here alone with baby. He wrote me an email to drive us to the airport the day after he left. I know he wants joint legal custody and not pay spousal support for me when I go back. He has been so inhuman I do not have any breastmilk for my baby and the harsh weather conditions where we live are starting to affect baby and me.

Can you please help? Who can help us? I just want to go home with my baby.

Thanks

Hi everyone,

I got a lot of support coming our way: THANK YOU!!!

We are in Minnesota. I am going to a mediation tomorrow to meet exspouse and his attorney and try to find an agreement.

If a anyone knows anything about mediations please help: tell me what you know about it and if anyone has advice please I'm listening.

One precise question: do I have to sign there at the end of the session or is it possible for me to ask a little time (a day) to review the agreement?

I also wonder if it's okay for me to ask for an interpreter because even if I am fluent in English there arte legal terms that I do not get immediately.

Thank you all

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

I'm sorry I don't mean to be rude but are you serious??? How do you read this sentence as "the agency"?

"If you do not provide sufficient support to the person who becomes a permanent resident based on the Form I-864 that you signed, that person may sue you for this support."

The next paragraph (thus distinguishing between the previous statement and this one) discusses the agencies etc.

There is absolutely no way to confuse this matter. It is simply that YES, the person that you said you would support can sue you for this support. It isn't a case of "the way I read it" unless your grasp of the english language is limited. I'm not trying to be rude but the simple fact is, it's there, in black and white, CLEARLY written and easy to understand. The only point of contention being the term "may" because ultimately it's up to the courts and I would think that if I earn $50,000 a year but you earn $30000 (and i'm suing you 'cause you're not giving me money) then it's less likely that a judgement will be made against the person earning less who signed that form... of course assuming no children or other matters involved.

Source: my sister is a lawyer and I work in law. Litigation specifically.

If you and your sister work in law, then you should have an eye for detail. I said that the affidavit of support cannot be enforced by the beneficiary. The beneficiary cannot call USCIS and say "My husband isn't supporting me. Please order him to do so!". USCIS cannot do this. They do not have that authority. The law AND the I-864 make this pretty clear - the remedy can only be granted by a court.

I was also pretty clear in my post that some beneficiary's have been successful in using the I-864 as a basis to get a support order. In some cases, the I-864 was used as the basis to establish eligibility for the support order. In other cases, it was only used to determine the amount of support. There have also been cases where a beneficiary attempted to use the I-864 either to establish eligibility or the amount of support, and they failed because the terms of the I-864 were contrary to prevailing state laws. There have been other cases where the courts refused to even consider the I-864 in determining support because the beneficiary was not a signatory to the contract, and the courts determined they had no right to sue on that basis.

The I-864 is a contract - it is not an order of support. A sponsor is not obligated to give the beneficiary anything unless and until a court issues an order forcing him/her to do so.

[justashooter 430]

Hi everyone,

I got a lot of support coming our way: THANK YOU!!!

We are in Minnesota. I am going to a mediation tomorrow to meet exspouse and his attorney and try to find an agreement.

If a anyone knows anything about mediations please help: tell me what you know about it and if anyone has advice please I'm listening.

One precise question: do I have to sign there at the end of the session or is it possible for me to ask a little time (a day) to review the agreement?

I also wonder if it's okay for me to ask for an interpreter because even if I am fluent in English there arte legal terms that I do not get immediately.

Thank you all

mediation is a first step in a divorce process. do not sign anythign presented to you in mediation unless it is exactly what you want and you know exactly what it means. you are in the driver's seat, as much as your husband is. you just have to keep your hands on the wheel and can steer this deal in any direction you want. this is just the beginnign of the process. do not throw down your cards now.

you should attend the mediation and get a copy of what they are presenting in this first round of negotiations. you should refuse to sign it after it is in your hand. you should inform that you will need competent legal representation, and that it is your husband's responsibility to pay for that as you are not working and cannot due to the special needs of the child. he will refuse, but you must insist. you cannot be party to a contract as important as this without legal representation. you may be able to find a local lawyer that will file a divorce action for you on contingency, and will biull your husband as part of teh settlement. this will only work if your husband has significant physical assets and a high salary.

in parallel you should obtain from your county court a preliminary custody order placing the child in your "primary physical custody" with a "joint custody" structure, permitting visitation to the father on a regular basis. you may be able to arrange this by going to the county courthouse, explaining your situation, and asking for free legal representation. if not, make it the first thing you do as soon as you harrass your husband into agreeing to pay for a lawyer, which he will have to do anyway, one way or another.

in most states obtaining primary physical custody will result in an automatic invocation of court mandated child support. child support for a woman with 1 child is typically 25% of the father's after tax income. the child support people will also be able to hook you up with temporary benefits like food, heating costs, utility costs, etc. your local catholic charities are also set up to inform you about your options.

in your situation you are probably better off in france with family and friends. this is prolly your ultimate goal, but don't let knowledge of this be used to reduce your position. you can get physical custody and move to france and still receive a court ordered child support from this bozo.

god bless you and your child.

may the devil take your husband.

[justashooter 430]

i should clarify that your legal representation must be seperate from his. his lawyer cannot represent both of you in this matter.

[Ema 0]

i should clarify that your legal representation must be seperate from his. his lawyer cannot represent both of you in this matter.

I keep receiveing messages from you all and thank you so much for making me feel less isolated

The news of the day are that exspouse lost his job today. This may change the deal for the mediation tomorrow but I don't know yet. On the phone he said he intended to be very reasonable tomorrow at the mediation. Hopefully he will...