"No common language" -- advice?

[TBoneTX 43,058]

*** Thread moved from K-1 Process forum to the Vietnam regional forum -- OP is past the I-129F stage, and more country-specific insights should be available in the Vietnam forum than in the Embassy/Consulate forum. ***

[JRF 117]

Well, I'll answer anyway. Maybe you can spot something that they are suspicious of.

She is from Saigon. I actually met her before I met her uncle. However, he was (part of) the conduit to introduce us.

I have a friend/co-worker, who has a friend, who married her cousin (a niece of the uncle on the other side). They noticed I was single and very traditional and quiet, into Asian culture (I am rudimentary-conversational in Japanese, though it is getting rusty) and got to talking. Out came the iPhone and the photos of her friend that they thought I'd be a good match with. They first wanted to introduce me to her friend (who is from a smaller town) but after one email exchange, we did not click. I thought everything was done and a few weeks later they emailed me a photo of Uyen & asked if I was interested in talking to her, because she doesn't seem to be finding the right guy in Vietnam. The subject came up at dinner at the uncle's house and they said "well, we know this great guy..." Maybe I can do what they did... I took a chance, thinking it would again lead nowhere.

We emailed at first, and then I tried an audio-only Skype call which was disastrous and almost made me give up. What kept me interested was when she said she would go to an English class if I would give it another try. I've had several people try to set me up before, and never had the other person show effort towards making something work. At this point, it was just pen-pals, but we started from the get-go laying out the idea that we were both looking for a spouse. We both would like children, and the clock is ticking so to speak.

So I was intrigued by her show of effort and decided to give it a go. From that point on, we used video & text with audio and it was much better. I saw her English improve and we found that we had a lot of the same interests. I told my Mom that I was going to fly over and meet her & that if we had a physical connection, I was already sure I would ask her to marry me. We did, I followed through, and went to her parents' house to ask permission--via Google Translate and Uyen--and I think a phone call with the uncle back in the states (who still had not met me, but had heard good things about me) & I was welcomed into the family.

I went back about 2.5 months later for a traditional engagement. We flew to Da Nang together and met her mother's side of the family. I've met some of her friends who now live in London when I was there last. They are already making plans to come visit us in the U.S. next summer if we get everything worked out.

Certainly, I got a lot of the question "how do you guys talk"? I usually say "slowly, in simple words, and with the help of modern technology and patience." And soon after, the person asking the question usually downloads the Google Translate app & goes "oh, wow!"

In my initial I-129F petition, I gave a lengthy explanation as to how we came to know each other (though I did not mention the other woman they first wanted to introduce me to) and how we learned to communicate despite the language barrier. (this was on the supplement question)

I'm pretty convinced that I'm the only person on planet earth who has bothered to read that letter.

That's a great story! You two sound like a wonderful couple. My guess is COs are human, and you got a picky CO on a grumpy day. I still think it's odd they didn't conduct the interview with a translator.

Anyways, provide the information they request, attend the interview if you can, and in the event they deny it again think through your next steps (get married and file for IR-1?).

Best of luck to you and your fiance!

[Mike-eeh and Odie 192]

I don't think her limited English abilities will hamper her in the U.S. any more than it does the millions of other folks here who have limited command of the English language. Certainly, a better command of the language will be helpful, but that can also be acquired much more quickly by experiencing the language first-hand everyday. As it is, she gets to talk to me an hour or so each day, and the rest of her day is Vietnamese. She has taken English classes, but they do not seem to focus on oral comprehension at all...

To a CO, surviving the language barrier in the USA in only part of the equasion; it's also about whether or not he believes you effectively communicate as a couple with little or no misunderstandings. Communication is a big part of a bonafide relationship, and without a grasp of the English language, a CO can only believe that you haven't discussed your future or the K-1 process effectively.

...I have found that the language barrier has been more of a reducer of potential arguments as opposed to inciting disagreements. We both make the assumption that there was a miscommunication...just did not understand what exactly I was trying to say...

And this is exactly why the CO gave your fiancee a blue slip. If she cannot understand exactly what you are trying to say, or more importantly, what the CO was trying to ask, how can the CO believe you are in a genuine relationship?

...In one year, we have only had one conversation that could be characterized in any way as a quarrel...She took a statement I made very personally when I didn't mean it in such a way...It's one of the things I absolutely adore about her: her ability to let little things go and not blow up into something big...

I'll let you in on a little secret from personal experience with my wife. She is not letting things go. She is remaining silent because she is afraid to say something that may be miscommunicated any further. My wife has a perfect command of the English language (read, write, speak on a collegate level), yet she believes she does not communicate in English effectively. So when we argue, she either remains silent or simply passes it off and moves on.

I expressed to her that it is not good to just remain silent, but she confided in me that "She remains silent or passive because she does not want to say something that I may misinterpret." Since that day, I began learning Tagalog so we can discuss our quarrels more effectively, because it is unhealthy to not have effective communication in a relationship.

I do often wonder how much of what I say is really "getting through" as opposed to just getting a nod...

Again, if you yourself are skeptical, imagine what the CO thought?

...All I can say is that we both understand it will take time...

It will take time, and I believe the CO thought that you two need a bit more time effectively communicating.

...I am taking a more active role now to discourage use of Google Translate and to not type so much of what I say--so that she has to practice listening more.

She doesn't have a problem listening, she has a problem comprehending. When you speak to her, she has to think in Vietnamese and spit it out in English. Without a full grasp of English, she is only capable of translating half the sentence, as in the case with her interview.

My advice is to start taking some Vietnamese classes if you truly care about her and your relationship. You'll be glad you did, not only for her, but for when you meet her family too!

[ktered 4]

We have yet to have our interview but we have a very similar situation to what you both mention here. I spoke 0 Spanish when we met and he spoke 0 English. Over 6 years we have both learned a lot but a lot of times (I've probably learned more Spanish than he has English) I have to ask him to help me understand when someone in his family says something in Spanish. I use Google translate sometimes when we talk on the phone if I don't understand a word or phrase. Or I tell him I don't understand. I really think it has made our communication better. We have to make certain the other person understands what we are saying. We have ask each other "DO you understand?" to clarify. It is not always easy (especially over the phone) but we are both committed and we figure it out. IRIScv I'm glad to know it worked out for you eventually - I worry about him learning English when he gets here.

Jedigrover -I'm so sorry this happened to your fiance. I hope that you can get it straightened out.

when I met my husband I knew basically 0 english and he didnt know spanish. he gave me his email to keep in touch and we would chat using google translator.
I learned to write and read in english surprisingly fast! But I would come visit and I didnt know how to pronounce the words I knew how to write..... we figured out ways to communicate with each other and we really understand each other! but people would think it was weird... so after a while my english got better because we started spending more time together, web cam etc... but there was an issue and this is what happens to your fiancee she is used to talk to you she understands what you say, but if a different person is talking the pronunciation, variety of accents is hard to get. it would happen to me we would be with friends and people would talk to me and I had to ask to my boyfriend what are they saying?? and he would say the exact same in english too and I would get it first attemp!!! it was very frustating for me. but the only way of overcoming this is when she comes to america and spend time around people.

I really hope you can fix it explaining its not a barrier for you two. Best wishes for you two!

I had to comment because I see everybody in this forum has very good english and it took.. oh god tears to learn it, and it reminded me of myself when you mention the CO talking to her and her not catching the words!!!!

I don't think her limited English abilities will hamper her in the U.S. any more than it does the millions of other folks here who have limited command of the English language. Certainly, a better command of the language will be helpful, but that can also be acquired much more quickly by experiencing the language first-hand everyday. As it is, she gets to talk to me an hour or so each day, and the rest of her day is Vietnamese. She has taken English classes, but they do not seem to focus on oral comprehension at all.

As regards our relationship, we are both very patient with each other. I have found that the language barrier has been more of a reducer of potential arguments as opposed to inciting disagreements. We both make the assumption that there was a miscommunication and cut the other some slack: he/she probably just did not understand what exactly I was trying to say. This allows us to come at the issue with level heads and from another angle. In one year, we have only had one conversation that could be characterized in any way as a quarrel. It involved a lack of understanding regarding how tired I was when I visited and my body clock was off by 12 hours. She took a statement I made very personally when I didn't mean it in such a way. We put it behind us and went on. It's one of the things I absolutely adore about her: her ability to let little things go and not blow up into something big.

I do often wonder how much of what I say is really "getting through" as opposed to just getting a nod. I spoke with the husband of her cousin, who confirmed that he has experienced some of that even after marriage and after his wife has been here for a while.

All I can say is that we both understand it will take time. I'm quite certain in our ability to communicate important things.

I am taking a more active role now to discourage use of Google Translate and to not type so much of what I say--so that she has to practice listening more.

[Operator 1,925]

HCMC consulate is like no other from what I understand.

Suggest you seek advice from:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/user/22697-anh-map/

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/user/64523-jimvaphuong/

Neither of these guys have been on here in a few months but may respond to PM.

Good luck

Edited October 30, 2014 by Operator

[jedigrover 4]

...I have found that the language barrier has been more of a reducer of potential arguments as opposed to inciting disagreements. We both make the assumption that there was a miscommunication...just did not understand what exactly I was trying to say...

And this is exactly why the CO gave your fiancee a blue slip. If she cannot understand exactly what you are trying to say, or more importantly, what the CO was trying to ask, how can the CO believe you are in a genuine relationship?

...In one year, we have only had one conversation that could be characterized in any way as a quarrel...She took a statement I made very personally when I didn't mean it in such a way...It's one of the things I absolutely adore about her: her ability to let little things go and not blow up into something big...

I'll let you in on a little secret from personal experience with my wife. She is not letting things go. She is remaining silent because she is afraid to say something that may be miscommunicated any further. My wife has a perfect command of the English language (read, write, speak on a collegate level), yet she believes she does not communicate in English effectively. So when we argue, she either remains silent or simply passes it off and moves on.

I expressed to her that it is not good to just remain silent, but she confided in me that "She remains silent or passive because she does not want to say something that I may misinterpret." Since that day, I began learning Tagalog so we can discuss our quarrels more effectively, because it is unhealthy to not have effective communication in a relationship.

I do often wonder how much of what I say is really "getting through" as opposed to just getting a nod...

Again, if you yourself are skeptical, imagine what the CO thought?

I should clarify that I get the "nod" usually when I am over there and I comment on something we see on the street, at a temple, at a market, whatever. I figure that she really didn't understand much of what I said (though she certainly can tell if I like or dislike something). If it is something trivial like that, I just take the nod and go on. If it is in our regular conversations and is something of substance we are discussing, then I never let her just "nod" it away. I will follow up with "do you understand?" Nor do I take a simple "yes" as confirmation that she understood. I follow up by asking what she thinks about that. Of course, if she answered "no" then I know she did not understand. If she volunteers "I understand," before I even ask, then I will often take that at face value--she wanted to let me know that she got it & I don't need to go probing for more.

I will also clarify that I violated all the standard "relationship advice" and jumped into the major stuff (religion, child-rearing) from the 2nd week of meeting her. The point being, if there was a problem on some of the bigger things then we would be better off spending our time looking for someone else more suitable. I know that may not sit too well with the modern crowd, but it allowed us to hit the ground running in a very serious manner.

I am not skeptical about our mutual understanding of what we each want out of the relationship, our goals in life, what we believe, how we feel about each other.

I do often have to explain shades of meaning to make sure she is clear about what I meant. I'm not surprised about that. It takes time, and one never truly stops learning even their native tongue.

I realize that she does not forget. But we have agreed to settle big things when they happen, and to choose our battles with the smaller stuff. Some things just aren't worth fighting over. Yes, I realize that some things will "pile up" and come out. These things are inevitable, but with understanding, a couple can manage it well enough to keep it from becoming a major problem. I know: I watched my parents do it for 50 years of marriage.

About understanding EXACTLY what I am trying to say...people that are fluent in the same language get twisted up into misunderstandings around subtlety of meaning or expression all the time. It is more important that she understand the main point--we can explore the details. And so, yes, I can see why the CO would be concerned. But I also believe that some consideration to the fact that we WORK with each other to ensure understanding should be given some weight. Without my explanation, I'm sure the CO has nothing to go on.

The problem Uyen is having is listening comprehension. (You say comprehension, I say listening...it is really "listening comprehension") It is generally the most difficult thing to master in learning a second language. I know from experience with Japanese. I studied for years and still had to "think" my way through a lot of stuff. While Uyen is trying to figure out what question word was used (who, what, when, where, why, how, can, may), she misses the topic; or vice-versa. This is a big reason she is much better with the written word--it is plain to see from the spelling what the question is and what the topic is.

I have begun learning some Vietnamese. The tonal nature is very challenging, but I would like to communicate with her family as they all seem like such lovely people (and I would love to know what it is they are saying about me!)

[Al422 221]

While I find the CO was a little unfair to you and your lady, if you can corral what you wrote here into the letter he is asking for, I think you can do a good job of addressing his concerns.

I understand where you are coming from, as my second language, Spanish, is hard for me when I have to listen to it. The rapid patter and the large number of vowels make it hard for me to determine where one word stops and the next word starts. But give me a letter written in Spanish and I am fine with it.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Al422

[Mike-eeh and Odie 192]

I should clarify that I get the "nod" ...<snip>

Thanks for clarifying. You two then seem to be communicating as best as you can.

It can be nerve-wracking just facing the reality that a total stranger (CO) has your entire future in his/her hands. What really upsets me a lot is seeing genuine couple who love each other, like the people on this site, having to jump through fire hoops to be united the legal way, when there are so many in the USA who are here illegally and have no obstacles to overcome to adjust status.

I wish you luck!

[jedigrover 4]

Thanks for clarifying. You two then seem to be communicating as best as you can.

It can be nerve-wracking just facing the reality that a total stranger (CO) has your entire future in his/her hands. What really upsets me a lot is seeing genuine couple who love each other, like the people on this site, having to jump through fire hoops to be united the legal way, when there are so many in the USA who are here illegally and have no obstacles to overcome to adjust status.

I wish you luck!

Indeed. I agree completely. I would add that if normal couples were put through the relationship test / wringer like immigration, maybe the divorce rate wouldn't be so high.

One thing that is irritating is that it is completely possible for me to meet someone in America who doesn't speak English, start an online relationship, meet them in real-life--in short, do everything I have been doing in this situation--and because it doesn't involve immigration, just go down and file for a marriage license and get hitched, no questions asked. Or fly to Vegas for the weekend. While I understand the concerns about immigration fraud, I'm not sure that seeing whether someone can answer 7-10 easily memorized facts is really helping ferret out such things. The later AOS / Green Card interviews, as I understand it, are much more comprehensive and realistic for determining whether a relationship is genuine.

I have put together a letter and backing evidence that I am sending by DHL for her to file at the consulate--after having her attorney look over it. I had it all notarized. I thought at the last minute to include a note that if another interview is required, I want to be present.

Thanks for the words of advice. I really appreciate it!

[Gosia & Tito 199]

My fiance had her interview yesterday. She said they asked her if she spoke English and she said "a little." The CO then asked her about 7 questions, but she could not understand the CO. She would understand the first few words and miss the end of the sentence. The CO would not let the translator in the room participate, and did not review any of our evidence, which included a year's worth of Skype chat logs and some email correspondence.

She was given a blue slip with the instructions:

"Please submit an original signed letter of explanation as to how Petitioner and Beneficiary communicate without a common language. Please provide any supporting documents and an English translation of the explanation and any documents submitted."

We talk via Skype for about an hour almost every day. I got in the habit of typing most of what I was talking about to clarify points, and she got in the habit of depending on the written text and using Google Translate to clear up details.

I have found her written English is reasonably decent, but her ability to understand the spoken word--particularly from anyone other than me--is poor. We have learned to work it out by using technology and learning mannerisms over time.

I have visited her 3 times, and we get on fine. Each time, we have relied on Google Translate less. However, I don't really know how much of what I say she is missing. She seems to pick up on "actionable" things when we are together. She has even been able to translate what her friends said to me on-the-fly on occasion. Her pronunciation, while not perfect, is much better than her uncle's--and he's been living here for many years.

So I have composed a letter explaining the fact that technology has allowed us to overcome some significant challenges, and we communicate often and both feel that we understand the other quite well. I have included Skype chat logs, emails, written correspondence, as well as a lot of backing data to show that I have gone to see her multiple times and that we have traveled around together. I had this notarized today, and will be shipping it over.

Before I send it off, does anyone have any words of advice? Should I--or shouldn't I--try calling to consulate tonight to see if I can better understand their concerns and how best to clear them up?

We practiced questions before the interview, but I think she got flustered and was just overwhelmed.

We had something similar, though nowhere near to the extent of what you posted.

First some context: wife is from Poland and speaks Polish and fluent Russian, Czech and Dutch; and a passable German; at the time of interview her English was good enough to understand it spoken as long as it was not too fast and with a neutral accent. I'm originally South American and speak Spanish, French, Italian, Portuguese, Swedish and a less than average German, and very fluent in English; I had been picking Polish already

One question at interview was: How do you communicate? That was a valid question

The answer: we have our own language that is a mix of Polish, Spanish, English and German.

The result : Approved.

Even today, even when her English is quite good, we still communicate mixing languages, sometimes is just better as there is no better way to express some things. Your answer seems to indicate that you too have your own "language".

That said, you need to also take into consideration that your future spouse might be ok now while she still can "go back" to speaking her language but once she moves here, it will be English most if not all the time (and depending where you live, with a regional accent), and serious problems might surface. Talking in Skype with google on teh side is not the same level of interaction as to when you'll be side to side and not in her country

Good luck

Edited October 30, 2014 by Gosia & Tito

[jedigrover 4]

Update:

I sent everything by DHL Express & it arrived Monday morning. She filed it and they had her wait while they reviewed it. They prepared a pink paper for her, which they kept along with her passport. They told her 10 days - 2 weeks, they will send the visa by DHL. No extra interview required.

I'm a little in a state of disbelief, but this is great news!

I'm trying not to get too excited until I actually see the visa.

She learned the outcome while I was asleep and did not message me. This morning when I got on Skype with her, she was smiling and told me the news.

It feels like a great weight has been lifted!

[icv21 110]

Hey I LOVE this update this is awesome news, congrats you two!!

[Ian H. 207]

Congratulations! I'm very glad everything worked out.

[frontgear 194]

They told her 10 days - 2 weeks, they will send the visa by DHL.

Congrats!

Btw, visa will be delivered via EMS, not DHL.

[Dave & Mong 29]

This was a question for "me" also from the CO. I have the luck of saying my neighbor is her cousin and I am invited to his house for gatherings and they all spoke Vietnamese, so I picked up a little and she took some English lessons. I sent this info back to her to take to the embassy. Now we are married here and filing AOS! Good luck! Wish you both the best.