USCIS Policy Memorandum "U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services Will Grant ‘Adjustment of Status’ Only in Extraordinary Circumstances"

[JeanneAdil 7,526]

2 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Sure.. but, let me ask this..

 

Does it matter if the couple gets married and one of them goes back home, files papers, waits some years and then comes back with successful green card?

 

Does slow-walking them really change the ultimate outcome?

 

I mean after coming on the K1, my husband certainly had the option to go back home if he wanted, we could have applied abroad and waited even longer for his already stupidly long green card to arrive? Would this have helped us in any way or made anyone feel more comfortable somehow?

 

I will assume there is just as much fraud on all different types of visas as there are VWP-adjusters? But there are also legitimate couples too and I feel great empathy for them.

 

2 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Sure.. but, let me ask this..

 

Does it matter if the couple gets married and one of them goes back home, files papers, waits some years and then comes back with successful green card?

 

Does slow-walking them really change the ultimate outcome?

 

I mean after coming on the K1, my husband certainly had the option to go back home if he wanted, we could have applied abroad and waited even longer for his already stupidly long green card to arrive? Would this have helped us in any way or made anyone feel more comfortable somehow?

 

I will assume there is just as much fraud on all different types of visas as there are VWP-adjusters? But there are also legitimate couples too and I feel great empathy for them.

it may if USCIS says that by doing this , they have overstayed the  B2 visa 

it clearly leaves a USCIS officer a lot of leaway to make decisions that would delay a case for an overstay by year(s)

 

and when USCIS realizes it is loosing a huge part of the budget (AOS fees), does anyone think this memo will be relaxed ?   I can see that happening too .  Like a new memo saying "exact things that qualify"  for AOS on B2 or crew or student 

 

[OldUser 11,288]

5 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

A key word.  The memo states that a temporary visit should not be the first step in obtaining a green card. 

There is nothing more permanent than temporary

 

 

[Crazy Cat 46,638]

Just now, OldUser said:

There is nothing more permanent than temporary

 

 

Certainly seems that way sometimes.....LOL.

[S2N 711]

I think the biggest question is what do they mean by temporary worker? Are we talking actual temporary worker visas that are meant primarily for seasonal farm work and hospitality?
 

Or are we talking people like my friends working as researchers at universities and biotech firms on non-immigrant visas? If we’re talking people who essentially live in the US for 5 years and get married after 2, it would create economic and social chaos for them to be forced to return to their home countries. 

[Crazy Cat 46,638]

35 minutes ago, S2N said:

non-immigrant visas

I think the memo closes the door for AOS from  truly non-immigrant entries into the US (such as Student Visas, VWP, B2)....except for extraordinary situations.  Not clear what "extraordinary" means right now. 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Crazy Cat

[TBoneTX 49,810]

We've all seen the illogic in the continuous "change of mind at baggage claim" of B2-holders/VWP entrants about why they've said they're entering and when they claim they're leaving.  If this closes that loophole, outstanding.  However, everyone's questions above are well-taken.  I think that we ought to hang out on any AILA discussion boards open to us and see what's said there.

 

What USCIS needs to do is, like Crazy Cat says, to state which visa types are affected, and how, and effective when.

 

And no one here has yet commented on the extra burden that this will place on the consulates.  If they're slow now, look out.  And will every consulate have the ability and wherewithal to adjudicate AOS, or just those that currently have decently staffed NIV units?

[S2N 711]

14 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

I think the memo closes the door for AOS from  truly non-immigrant entries into the US (such as Student Visas, VWP, B2)....except for extraordinary situations.  Not clear what "extraordinary" means right now. 

 

That’s my read as well, but even student visas get iffy from an economic and social standpoint once you get to into PhD students (who are a lot of AOS.) It’s pretty normal for someone to come here for 6+ years, be doing research that is functionally work and in many cases has industrial applications, fall in love, get married, have kids, adjust.

 

Thats different from your undergrads or foreign semester abroad students.

 

None of us know the practical impacts, but I do know it will slow down counselor even more now.

[Crazy Cat 46,638]

1 minute ago, S2N said:

That’s my read as well, but even student visas get iffy from an economic and social standpoint once you get to into PhD students (who are a lot of AOS.)

But a stipulation for a student visa is that you must return to home country after education is finished. 

[S2N 711]

3 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

And no one here has yet commented on the extra burden that this will place on the consulates.  If they're slow now, look out.  And will every consulate have the ability and wherewithal to adjudicate AOS, or just those that currently have decently staffed NIV units?

Jinx, we cross-posted this 😛

 

We actually just submitted our NVC population 5 minutes ago because of this. We were waiting another month because Santiago is the fastest consulate in the world at processing right now (6-8 weeks from NVC submission to IR-1/CR-1), but who knows what impacts this will have on NVC and consulates.

[Crazy Cat 46,638]

52 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

And will every consulate have the ability and wherewithal to adjudicate AOS, or just those that currently have decently staffed NIV units?

My reading is that those returning to home country would be required to pursue actual immigrant visas.....but I could be wrong. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Crazy Cat

[S2N 711]

9 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

But a stipulation for a student visa is that you must return to home country after education is finished. 

But the practical implication has always been that it’s in the interest of the United States to find employment for PhD students here afterwards because it is a massive boost for our global competitive advantage; and one of the ways that frequently happened was through marriage. There’s other ways, but marriage AOS did a lot of work that otherwise would have necessitated Congress further clarifying visa categories.

 

Basically if you go of what the memo was saying, the almost universal consensus was that it’s in the national interest to maintain highly skilled workers that build up the national industrial and scientific base. The memo does leave room for that judgement still, but it’s a lot harder.

 

I agree it’d be better for Congress to change the law to make some student visas dual intent, but AOS did solve a practical problem in many cases that if the memo is implemented hardline will need a political solution.

 

4 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

My reading is that those returning to home country would be required to pursue actual immigrant visas....not AOS. 

Agreed. Consulates still aren’t staffed for that workload though. Expect more delays.

Edited 2 hours ago by S2N

[yuna628 10,001]

16 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

We've all seen the illogic in the continuous "change of mind at baggage claim" of B2-holders/VWP entrants about why they've said they're entering and when they claim they're leaving.  If this closes that loophole, outstanding.  However, everyone's questions above are well-taken.  I think that we ought to hang out on any AILA discussion boards open to us and see what's said there.

 

What USCIS needs to do is, like Crazy Cat says, to state which visa types are affected, and how, and effective when.

 

And no one here has yet commented on the extra burden that this will place on the consulates.  If they're slow now, look out.  And will every consulate have the ability and wherewithal to adjudicate AOS, or just those that currently have decently staffed NIV units?

VWP adjustments have always bothered me for a long time. It can feel, after all the hardship we went through... like cheating. It's hard not to feel upset in some way, and that is because our system does not work very well or fairly. I know many of you have experienced great difficulty in the journey of your spouses and it's hard to have empathy for those that you perceive cut in line or have less hardship, or yes certainly create fraud. I have known people that went that route admittedly because the 'legit' way seemed too hard and they didn't care, and that was certainly upsetting that their selfishness and desperation won out. But on the flip side I know the headaches having a more difficult and in some ways rigid system creates, especially in the UK. And the difficulty and prohibitive nature isn't based upon fairness either - it's an intentional feature rooted in something far worse. The reason why we chose the US and K1 was because of the UK system to begin with, and we are forever grateful of the opportunities my husband found here as much as we dearly love his country.

 

But my question still stands - does slow walking an applicant somehow change the eventual outcome or make you feel better that they were slow walked on the basis that your journey was like having a root canal? And is any potential change of eventual outcome somehow more fair if the couple just.. gives up or the US citizen decides to cut ties with their own country out of disillusionment? I'm not asking that question to be snark or unkind either. Slow walking people will not change positive outcomes (as in if they had been allowed to adjust inside the US they still would be successful anyway), will not stop people doing illegal activity, and I still believe will have negative impacts on foreign citizens visiting their gf/bfs/fiancés (one condition of a K1 is actually to visit each other -- we know some foreign applicants will never in a snowballs chance be able to visit the US and I think that K1 marriages are actually more successful after many visits). I am a strong believer in state's rights, and the right of marriage is not something the feds should ever be involved in. No one belongs telling two consenting adults who they have the right to marry and where they can live so long as they are not fraud. In other countries where the right of marriage is not free - immigration headaches are created. Lawyers I've seen discussing this memo today are extremely skeptical and believe it can be challenged in court and they had several legal basis for this. I don't like the memos they often release that are halfheartedly written and not fully explanatory. The government though, especially this one, is interested in selling optics and often do not care the repercussions until it is dragged out in court. Currently I personally do not care if people are allowed to adjust from O1s, students, workers etc if they find someone to love. If no fraud is found these people ultimately pay taxes and contribute to our society, and the bonds of love strengthen ties to this country. The hardships in getting my husband here in this system has no basis of comparison to theirs and all of those types of persons I've spoken to that literally been through the same problems we all have on this journey because of the inadequacies of the system.

 

The changing of one's mind at baggage claim... well, we're all skeptical of those claims.. but man, I think we all know what it's like to be painfully and desperately in love with someone, and how much it kills to say goodbye. We did that for so many painful years. It was anguishing for us. And if people became aware of an option where they didn't have to do that, I suspect it's one reason why people do it. And yes of course some do it for fraud reasons. The problem is though the system is supposed to detect fraud vs legit reasons. So if it isn't doing that, shouldn't we be finding a way to fix that instead of punitive draconian actions? While I might be more tempted to agree that openings for B2 and VWP adjusters should be closed, there are many different other categories this surely will affect where it just doesn't make sense.

 

BTW, I have seen some discussion this afternoon that this will apply retroactively to people already awaiting adjucation.

[RamonGomez 278]

22 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

VWP adjustments have always bothered me for a long time. It can feel, after all the hardship we went through... like cheating. It's hard not to feel upset in some way, and that is because our system does not work very well or fairly. I know many of you have experienced great difficulty in the journey of your spouses and it's hard to have empathy for those that you perceive cut in line or have less hardship, or yes certainly create fraud. I have known people that went that route admittedly because the 'legit' way seemed too hard and they didn't care, and that was certainly upsetting that their selfishness and desperation won out. But on the flip side I know the headaches having a more difficult and in some ways rigid system creates, especially in the UK. And the difficulty and prohibitive nature isn't based upon fairness either - it's an intentional feature rooted in something far worse. The reason why we chose the US and K1 was because of the UK system to begin with, and we are forever grateful of the opportunities my husband found here as much as we dearly love his country.

 

But my question still stands - does slow walking an applicant somehow change the eventual outcome or make you feel better that they were slow walked on the basis that your journey was like having a root canal? And is any potential change of eventual outcome somehow more fair if the couple just.. gives up or the US citizen decides to cut ties with their own country out of disillusionment? I'm not asking that question to be snark or unkind either. Slow walking people will not change positive outcomes (as in if they had been allowed to adjust inside the US they still would be successful anyway), will not stop people doing illegal activity, and I still believe will have negative impacts on foreign citizens visiting their gf/bfs/fiancés (one condition of a K1 is actually to visit each other -- we know some foreign applicants will never in a snowballs chance be able to visit the US and I think that K1 marriages are actually more successful after many visits). I am a strong believer in state's rights, and the right of marriage is not something the feds should ever be involved in. No one belongs telling two consenting adults who they have the right to marry and where they can live so long as they are not fraud. In other countries where the right of marriage is not free - immigration headaches are created. Lawyers I've seen discussing this memo today are extremely skeptical and believe it can be challenged in court and they had several legal basis for this. I don't like the memos they often release that are halfheartedly written and not fully explanatory. The government though, especially this one, is interested in selling optics and often do not care the repercussions until it is dragged out in court. Currently I personally do not care if people are allowed to adjust from O1s, students, workers etc if they find someone to love. If no fraud is found these people ultimately pay taxes and contribute to our society, and the bonds of love strengthen ties to this country. The hardships in getting my husband here in this system has no basis of comparison to theirs and all of those types of persons I've spoken to that literally been through the same problems we all have on this journey because of the inadequacies of the system.

 

The changing of one's mind at baggage claim... well, we're all skeptical of those claims.. but man, I think we all know what it's like to be painfully and desperately in love with someone, and how much it kills to say goodbye. We did that for so many painful years. It was anguishing for us. And if people became aware of an option where they didn't have to do that, I suspect it's one reason why people do it. And yes of course some do it for fraud reasons. The problem is though the system is supposed to detect fraud vs legit reasons. So if it isn't doing that, shouldn't we be finding a way to fix that instead of punitive draconian actions? While I might be more tempted to agree that openings for B2 and VWP adjusters should be closed, there are many different other categories this surely will affect where it just doesn't make sense.

 

BTW, I have seen some discussion this afternoon that this will apply retroactively to people already awaiting adjucation.

 

When my wife adjusted via a B2 a long time ago, we hired a high-powered expensive local attorney, she knew most of the ISOs in the office and knew a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff. She told us that VWP/B2 visa adjustments were rarely scrutinized because the vast overwhelming majority were legit couples. Yes, some people used it as a shortcut. Others married at day 179 when it was time to start packing. Unexpected pregnancy was another one. It was almost impossible to prove "intent" and no USCIS officer was interested in going through the lengthy paperwork denying a legitimate couple when there were actual criminals, imposters, sham marriages, etc.

 

There was even a report over on reddit of someone who wasn't aware that intending to adjust from a B2 was verboten, they straight up told the ISO his wife came to adjust status, they caught some flack over it but their case was still approved on the spot.  

 

According to the attorney, the F1 visa adjustments were actually a much larger source of legitimate fraud.

 

I always hated the whole "intent" issue as it's almost impossible to prove or disprove. They should've either condoned marrying on a VWP/B2 or disallowed it entirely. It's fine that they've now closed this avenue off, but I hope the at least make it easier now to visit.

Edited 1 hour ago by RamonGomez

[spicynujac 109]

I think the law of unintended consequences is going to really come into play on this one.

 

The practical effects will be more people will just quietly overstay.  Which has been perhaps the biggest problem with the US immigration system overall for years.  So many people in gray areas.

 

I mean, who is going to buy a ticket home and find a job / partner / house there and fill out a bunch of paperwork and then wait years and maybe give all that up and come back?  If you want to stay, you will just stay.  Some who aren't highly motivated to remain in the US will probably return to their country.  But the bottom line is more people afoul of US immigration law, which just causes bigger problems than we had before. 

 

Can't say I'm surprised though!

As broken as our immigration system is, encouraging more people to break its rules is not the answer.

 

I know 3 people personally who came on au pair visas and stayed through various means (one enrolled in a US school, one married, etc.).  Will they all have to go home now?  I helped one find an apartment to rent this week--glad I'm not the landlord!

[Crazy Cat 46,638]

3 minutes ago, RamonGomez said:

but I hope the at least make it easier now to visit.

I think that is very possible...and rightfully so, imo.