A request

[almaty 19]

hola hermana mo!

[meauxna 15]

I am trying to get a grasp of the constant bashing of "noobs" We were all new to this process at the beginning. Almost seems the equivalent of anti immigrant sentiment. The attitude of "I was here first and everyone that follows me should be treated like $hit"

Hey there, you're a sensible person who's been around a long time; I'm glad you don't understand it either. From the outside, it looks like a silly game that has taken on a life of its own. Since many of the people involved are usually quite nice and polite, I'm sure they don't realize how mean it looks to people who don't know their online personae. But it's the same old culture problem I've seen before here; one strong group dominates and the whole community has to suffer their behavior because *they're* having fun.

yay she's back! :dance: :dance: :dance:

hola hermana mo!

Hey guys, how's youse? Baby making and garden growing still? I'm still not done house painting; at this rate, may as well make it a new career.

[Ban Hammer 14,586]

yay she's back! :dance: :dance: :dance:

Hey guys, how's youse? Baby making and garden growing still? I'm still not done house painting; at this rate, may as well make it a new career.

check out this thread:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=191446

[Ladylethal 12]

Hmmmm, there is certainly a big/huge difference between being a newbie and coming here posting some ####### that is clearly illegal or offensive and expecting to get affirmation from VJers.

I've always politely responded to newcomers confused about the process, but when certain topics surface and the OP starts going douche-style on other VJers the n00b calling is justified, IMO.

And btw, Meauxna!

Edited June 23, 2009 by Ladylethal

[Marina-Del 10]

I agree with Laura. As was said on the SAT in OT today, there is a difference between a newbie and a n00b. We were all newbies once of course. That being said, I also agree that it can be a bit scary for newcomers if they happen to come across a "n00b bashing" thread.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

So, just to confirm, we have a judge and jury outside of the moderation team, many of whom have been around a relatively short time themselves who determines which "newbs/noobs" posting in the upper forums (not OT) deserve to be ganged up, called a troll, bashed, etc.

Of course there are people who are annoying and some likely trolls, but there is a report button at the side of the post that can be used in a relatively drama-free fashion. I personally think the moderation team does a pretty efficient job at eliminating offensive posts.

I'm with meauxna, I don't get it.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Add me to the "colour me confused" list with Robin and meauxna. Look, I am not a no-fun zone by any stretch of the imagination. However, I do feel that taking OT sensibilities outside of OT is really not on. It can be scary when you're a newcomer to VJ (and I choose that word specifically here) -- hell, TracyTN and meauxna scared the bejeebus out of me when I started, but I quickly learned that they were both just trying to help me when I was getting hysterical. They did NOT make fun of me for stupid questions. I try to return the goodwill by not acting like a jackass in the upper forums.

Sorry if I sound like a grumpy old biddy here, but this behaviour is both childish and exclusive. I have been watching it slowly spread over the past few months, and like one of the legions of high school footsoldiers who watch the cool kids mock the dorks and freaks and do nothing, I have remained mute. Frankly, I'm sick of it. If I were joining VJ now, I don't know if I'd want to stick around for fear of asking something stupid and being made fun of.

If we're old enough to get married, we're old enough to act like adults. Talk about all the ####### sex, romps with farm animals and political chicanery you like in OT but for ####'s sake keep it there.

[TBoneTX 48,159]

Some particular induhviduals have zero class and need to be b1tch-slapped back to OT.

Si, man. Perhaps it's most prudent to handle things by a (comparatively) classy open post, or perhaps by PM, and if something truly crosses the line, "report" it. Don't let them feel the rod in their hindquarters until it's already on the way out.

Beyond newbie-bashing, my enraging peeve is the all-encompassing, sweeping advice that advocates a casual or cavalier attitude toward ANY aspect of this infernal immigration process. As just ONE example, how many times must we read the knee-jerk "You do not need to have a lawyer!" when such respondents cannot possibly know the circumstances, reading/perception/responding abilities, or other factors that are integral to whether a poster truly might (gasp, shudder) NEED a lawyer? More strikingly, how many NEW members of VJ even know all the factors to CONSIDER as they search for answers through the VJ fora and individual threads? Did any of us know even a fraction of "what was significant" when we began, or are some of us sadder and much wiser after learning the hard way? I, for one, probably should have consulted a GOOD lawyer before submitting my original papers, and I have relied on several excellent ones to drag me from subsequent hellholes. Who are others to say "no one needs a lawyer"?

Almost as bad are the posters who "parachute in" to a multipage thread that they obviously haven't bothered to read, and they answer the original post (usually copying the entire thing, rather than clipping pertinent sentences) with answers or opinions that have already been stated multiple times. In such instances, let's ponder whether we have something genuinely of value to add. I'm not perfect at this, but I will force myself to read a multipage thread to see if someone has crafted an excellent answer -- and I usually conclude that theirs is better than mine would have been.

If the above extra peeves are off THIS topic, I apologize, but perhaps they're worthy of discussion, si man. If not, so be it.

Edited June 25, 2009 by TBoneTX

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

This thread is a classic example of someone who is relatively new asking a rather innocuous question (is there a bias against a nationality) that sure, has been asked countless times and is only being asked out of frustration getting the full-on smackdown by our chorus of "newb/noob" bashers:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...t&p=3061526

I checked to see if it had been linked for an attack to be launched and lo and behold someone had:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...t&p=3061564

I wonder who the OP is going to feel the next time she needs to post a legitimate question?

But hey, it's all just fun and games, it's not like we are dealing with people's lives here.

[*julez* 124]

Amen, Robin. It is really sad how VJ has degenerated over the last few months. I know simple, repetetive questions can be annoying, but the best way to not be upset by them is to leave them alone. The thread will run its course much sooner. Piling on only makes the OP feel bad, while the pilers on just look like jerks.

VJ used to be a place that welcomed new members and gave them a place to get help, as well as offering a safe haven to vent amongst those who have gone through/are still going through the visa process and find some understanding. Its sad that some members can't remember how it felt to be still mired in the process.

[Marilyn. 340]

yeah the noob bashing is not good.... but it really isn't anything new..

I remember when I first joined in 2004 I didn't even post for a few months because there was this group of people who scared me.. they seemed to rip apart people who posted the wrong thing...

[Krikit 1,166]

VJ used to be a place that welcomed new members and gave them a place to get help, as well as offering a safe haven to vent amongst those who have gone through/are still going through the visa process and find some understanding. Its sad that some members can't remember how it felt to be still mired in the process.

Did we join the same VJ?

I did not enjoy my initiation when I first came here. I remember every single one of those members' names and, no matter how nice they were afterwards, I still have not forgotten the hurt and the injustice of when people make assumptions/jump to conclusions, or put words in your mouth. I've let it go, but I remember. For a time I resorted to PM's to bypass the hostility. After a while I found some great friends and some harmony in the Canada Forum, so I settled in there.

I have no problem with atypical behaviour in the OT forum, or in threads where it's appropriate. But I do feel some concern when it spills over into the upper forums where people are asking legitimate questions or voicing their thoughts.

[*julez* 124]

I do agree, Krikit, that there have always been members who were rough on new members. But there was also some who took the time to explain things is a way that didn't make you feel like a jackass for asking. The last several months, VJ has become particularly vicious. And the piling on is simply out of control. It really has become a pitchfork and torches mentality. Over time, VJ has lost some great resource members because there is that certain faction who continually engage in this behavior. Sadly, they have been able to recruit more members to this mob, which has made VJ not only unpleasant, but not as useful as it once was.

[scandal 951]

This thread is a classic example of someone who is relatively new asking a rather innocuous question (is there a bias against a nationality) that sure, has been asked countless times and is only being asked out of frustration getting the full-on smackdown by our chorus of "newb/noob" bashers:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...t&p=3061526

I checked to see if it had been linked for an attack to be launched and lo and behold someone had:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...t&p=3061564

I wonder who the OP is going to feel the next time she needs to post a legitimate question?

But hey, it's all just fun and games, it's not like we are dealing with people's lives here.

Hmmm. Ok. This is apparently about me. Someone PM'd me to suggest I look at the discussion in this thread. There seems to be a consensus here amongst many of you that we pwners are playing too rough (We prefer the term 'pwning' to 'bashing'. Has it gotten excessive on some occasions? Probably. Yes. Should it be toned down? Maybe. I submit below the "rules of engagement" that I personally play by, or at least try to play by. Have a look -- see if you don't think this is reasonable. Note that the vast majority of innocent newbies (truly newcomers to VJ, just wanting help, as all of us once did) - are in category 1, and I entirely agree deserve to be treated sympathetically. Most of the rest are Category 2 people, still deserve respect. Category 3 and down... and we have such, I personally believe THEY are the ones who degrade the value of VJ as a resource. Are we a vigilante squad, by deciding to "harass" them? You could say that. But VJ is a peer community. Just as pushbrk or Gary&Ala or Bobby take it on themselves to "expert" on immigration questions -- no one ever appointed them -- who is to say that we pwners shouldn't decide which corner of the peer-helping effort we feel needs tackling? Well -- the mods and Ewok can certainly make that call. But not those of you who are VJ members just like we are.

Myself, personally, I don't post all that much on immigration topics. I am active on Thai regional forums. I used to be very active on the AP@NVC thread, enough to have actually donated my time and effort to create a tracking list for those of us who unfortunately got stuck there (see the link in my sig). Otherwise I generally stick to OT. The "Noobz" thread is as much (if not more) a social hangout as it is a pwning squad. We poke as much fun at ourselves as we do at anyone (I've been 'pwned' mercilessly any number of times).

Here is my classification of noobs, in order from good noob to bad noob.

1. People who have already done some research on their own, have read VJ guides and/or equivalent, and have specific questions. ---- very cool, deserve lots of help.

2. People who post new threads on topics that have already been covered many times before in the forums, where a little bit of searching will give them the answer they need. --- not so cool. Give them a brief response, point them to Guides and/or a relevant message thread that covers their Q.

3. People that start "it's all about me" threads. You know the kinds I mean... inevitably the OP is a wonderful person, but somehow everyone is out to get him/her. Inevitably these threads are not about immigration topics but usually about relationship help or some other online therapy session. They tend to go on forever. Sometimes they can be entertaining to read in a morbid voyeuristic way. But they are n00b threads, for sure! ---- not so cool, but they get a pass from the noob patrol for the first 50 posts or so. After post #50 it's fair game to post one of those "Not this f#cking thread again" pics, or a "Will this thread never end?" pic.

4. People who want validation for their attempts at visa fraud. You know -- "Oh, look at me. I'm in the US on an overstayed visa, but it's really swell here and I think I'll stay. How do I find a chopf##k to marry me and adjust status?". Or --- "We did a K1 but I was still married. Silly me. I don't have to start over right? I can just tell them at the interview that I was never married, right?" ------- Big time LOOZER N00bz deserve all the heartless azzbusting we can lay on sorry azzes!

5. Scamsters and trolls who start threads which invariably get locked for TOS violations. You can see the locks coming from the instant you read the OP. ---- These guys need serious n00b pwning.

6. So called "experts" who are regulars on VJ and respond to innocent OPs with "helpful" advice that is often wrong and can land OP in deep deep doodoo if they followed that advice. An example would be telling someone who entered with immigration intent that it's no big deal to get married and adjust status - an action which can result in deportations and bans if the OP is not careful. ---- this is probably the worst of all, even worse than stupid lame scammers and trolls. Nothing but scorn should be heaped on these azzholes.

[TBoneTX 48,159]

Here is my classification of noobs, in order from good noob to bad noob.

Upon reflection, I consider this to be a comprehensive and well-ordered list, si man.