221g

[babybunny 2]

Um but I really can see why she had big suspicions... Face it, the muslim world is anti-semetic, it's pretty rare if a muslim marries a jew... and the fact that she was born in Israel makes it worse.. but she should still keep her mind open that it is possible.. Maybe she's all bitter because all moroccan men want to leave their women behind?

That is a ding dong thing to say considering YOU did not have your interview YET!!

I think you should be offering support you will need it too when you face your

221g.

let me see what are the odds of YOU getting the 221g fate. even if its not returned petiton but, seeing

a 221g lets see the odds.. here is a list of the T "26 "

Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Djibouti, Egypt, Eritrea, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Malaysia, Morocco, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, Turkey, the United Arab Emirates, and Yemen.

looks to me like uhmm Algeria is on that list. so before you start pooping in your Corn flakes! I think you should start reading up on 221g and admin review process you are NOT out the of the woods yet my dear!

My source:

http://www.wolfsdorf.com/articles/Consular...50524.htm#_ftn5

btw, 221g is a TEMP denial. could be for many reasons. one thing we all face is 221g for security checks. some are on it

like 17 days some on it for 2 years < the longest I have seen on VJ>

those from the "T-7 or T-26 " country should expect addtional security checks.

whoa, ease up there Shon! I think everyone is just trying to bounce around some ideas for what that horrid lady is thinking, not siding with her or defending her....

whats happening in Casa these days is flat out crazy and the fact that they refuse to give anyone answers or reasons is going to lead to some speculation. We dont need to start telling each other that the speculations are ding dong......

I am just being honest!! I dont candy coat NOTHING! if you want candy go to the store and get candy!

[Dixie_Peach 1]

Just a though Moroccogirlny.....there is a list of 9 people we know of from Casablanca that has been sent back to the CIS just from our little group alone. Now if you were to mention this to them, and that we all say that they have violated policy when returning petitions, I am wondering if this might help your case. Lets face it, you were discriminated against because of religion! Now what I am thinking is that maybe if they suspect that you might be pushing towards an investigation of the consulate they might decide against sending back your petition. You know....to shut you up!

Anyone else have a thought on this? Doing this isn't going to help those of us that have already had their petitions sent back, but if it could save just one person some heartache I would be so happy.

WELL Kim asked my fiance if he touched me ......? He had to go into detail..For a k-1 ?? Then she asked him why he cant find a fiance in Morocco? ..The one thing I did read into says that if you have a legal complaint that you want to be taken in consideration it has to be withing the 30 days of the 221g . There is a form to file . Then state the reasons of your belief that it was not a fair interview by law. It is 110$ and a place for the lawyer to sign . Unfortunately I dont have 650$ right now to do this and I only have 1 more day. My interview was March 07...I dont really know , I would suggest if you have the money to contact a good lawyer and have him dispute it if that is what he or she thinks is best within the 30 days. THIS IS SO STRESSFUL >>.>>>grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

why $650 if the form is $110? i'm confused... sorry to be a bother... but do you mind clarifying that statement for me? thank you!

hey I will recommend this if you have not thought of it yourself.

I have pre- Paid legal.

you can sign up for like 36.00 intial

then its 26.00 per month.

I have been a member for 3 years now.

when ever i have an issue I can talk to an attorney as many times as I like

so its an option you can consider. -beats the 75.00 for a 30 min consultation.

shon.. and that is also including questions concerning immigration? could they also help with the 221g stuff?

[iceyspots 0]

Um but I really can see why she had big suspicions... Face it, the muslim world is anti-semetic, it's pretty rare if a muslim marries a jew... and the fact that she was born in Israel makes it worse.. but she should still keep her mind open that it is possible.. Maybe she's all bitter because all moroccan men want to leave their women behind?

This is the U.S. consulate however. Religion should not weigh into the decision period.

Isn't she a moroccan female CO ? I'm not trying to justify her actions, I'm trying to see if she's putting her personal beliefs into it.

Um but I really can see why she had big suspicions... Face it, the muslim world is anti-semetic, it's pretty rare if a muslim marries a jew... and the fact that she was born in Israel makes it worse.. but she should still keep her mind open that it is possible.. Maybe she's all bitter because all moroccan men want to leave their women behind?

That is a ding dong thing to say considering YOU did not have your interview YET!!

I think you should be offering support you will need it too when you face your

221g.

let me see what are the odds of YOU getting the 221g fate. even if its not returned petiton but, seeing

a 221g lets see the odds.. here is a list of the T "26 "

Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Djibouti, Egypt, Eritrea, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Malaysia, Morocco, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, Turkey, the United Arab Emirates, and Yemen.

looks to me like uhmm Algeria is on that list. so before you start pooping in your Corn flakes! I think you should start reading up on 221g and admin review process you are NOT out the of the woods yet my dear!

My source:

http://www.wolfsdorf.com/articles/Consular...50524.htm#_ftn5

btw, 221g is a TEMP denial. could be for many reasons. one thing we all face is 221g for security checks. some are on it

like 17 days some on it for 2 years < the longest I have seen on VJ>

those from the "T-7 or T-26 " country should expect addtional security checks.

If you have paid any attention to my previous posts anywhere about this lady, I am obviously NOT in support of her actions. I simply made a statement as to WHY she would've given the 221(g), NOT justifying her giving it out. My statement is only a speculation as to why. Now, for others, the reason may not be as apparent. I can see why the CO would doubt, I dont believe it's a good reasoning, but that could be HER reason. And it's not nice to "wish" or assume that just because somebody is sponsoring from a list of those countries, that they are going to get a 221(g).

Um but I really can see why she had big suspicions... Face it, the muslim world is anti-semetic, it's pretty rare if a muslim marries a jew... and the fact that she was born in Israel makes it worse.. but she should still keep her mind open that it is possible..

This is actually completely untrue, although a commonly held fallacy (much of it, I must say, tirelessly promoted by Zionist idealogists and their supporters.) Most of the Muslim world is certainly anti-Zionist and anti-Israeli government policies, but this is not the same as being "anti-semitic" (hating Jewish people simply because they are Jewish.) The conflict between the two groups is over the right to real estate in Palestine, not over religious differences, although many would attempt to paint it that way in order to deflect criticism from Israel's repeated violations of international law. Historically, Islamic nations protected the Jewish people and their rights far more than Christian nations (whose political and religious leaders were indeed often notoriously "anti-semitic.")

I have spent a LOT of time in the West Bank. I have never EVER heard any Palestinian person condemn a Jewish person simply on the basis of religion. There are actually a considerable number of marriages between Muslim men and Jewish women. Some of these women convert to Islam, some do not. Since such couples are ostracized in Israel, with the husbands often refused even the right to live there, they often make their homes in the West Bank, where they are accepted without social censure.

-MK

I'm not talking about just palestine... see I'm from Metro detroit and we have about hmm 270,000 muslims living here, Palestinians included, also Lebanese, Yemeni, Pakistani, Iraqi, Bengladeshi, Jordanian, Egyptian, Moroccans and Algerians as well...and I've only met a handfull that didn't express some kind of dislike of Jews or Zionism.. or most of the time, both. If only I had a quarter for every time I've heard one of them say, "You can eat their food, but you can't sleep in their bed." Not that I support those ideas at all, in fact, I tend to shy away from those people who have racist views towards the Jewish faith.

[iceyspots 0]

I'm so sorry how things went. I was talking to Abdel about it last night and he couldn't understand her questioning. He said that Muslim men are free to marry Jewish men and many in Morocco do.

How far do you live from your congressperson's office? If possible you should go there in person, if not call. Tell them exactly what you told us and insist (politely) that they contact the consulate immediately. If one of your congresspeople won't help, try another one. I just looked on the internet and it appears that there are a lot of New York Representatives in the House that have Jewish names. You might be able to use the race issue to get the backing of one of them to fight this.

I'd recommend finding all the senators and representatives from your district, then search on the web to see what committees they sit on. If you can find one on the appropriations committee, you've struck gold. That's who decides how much money the consulates get and that is who will be able to snap their fingers and make them jump over there. If you can find one that is Jewish and on the appropriations committe, I'm betting if they'll contact the consulate immediately you'll get your visa.

One of the guys I work with just got a promotion to a different area, and when we were talking today about it he reminded me: "it's not what you know, it's who you know." I hope you're able to find someone with pull that can end this fight for you quick.

I'll send all the karma your way I can. Good luck!

I couldn't help but giggle about this one...... lol

[morocco4ever 63]

Oh Icy, you have a lot to learn still about this immigration process., but heck, you just started The consulate is the US consulate. The CO's are American, not Moroccan. They do have Moroccan employees, but the CO's themselves are American.

As far as the Jewish, I can only tell you my husbands point of view. He doesn't hate jews, but as Mary said, it is a fight for the land. They don't like the politics, and they don't like how the US backs the Jews on any issues. As far as a person...well as long as they have good hearts then it doesn't stop them from marrying a Jew. I will tell you, if they are strong muslim they are going to want the wife to convert.

Now for the evil demon at the Consulate. She knows that muslim men can marry jewish women. She also knows that it happens more often than she wants to admit. The problem here isn't that she truly believes that a muslim men can't marry a jewish women, the issue is more that she had already decided to send their petition back long before the interview, and this was an excuse she is using to justify it.

The people are trained to look for "flags". And these over zealous CO's have found a way to put a red flag where there is none. Really I don't want to stop them from doing their job. I would really be mortified if a terrorist slipped though the cracks. I just want to see them follow their own procedures.

I have a friend thats just wrote me about her husband friend from Amman. They had their interview and they also questioned the validity of their relationship and issued the 22`g. The difference between Amman and Casablanca is that they told them what the problem is, and are giving them an opportunity to bring in information to prove the validity of their marriage. This consulate is following the documented procedues. Too bad Morocco can't see how they do things.

[iceyspots 0]

Oh Icy, you have a lot to learn still about this immigration process., but heck, you just started The consulate is the US consulate. The CO's are American, not Moroccan. They do have Moroccan employees, but the CO's themselves are American.

As far as the Jewish, I can only tell you my husbands point of view. He doesn't hate jews, but as Mary said, it is a fight for the land. They don't like the politics, and they don't like how the US backs the Jews on any issues. As far as a person...well as long as they have good hearts then it doesn't stop them from marrying a Jew. I will tell you, if they are strong muslim they are going to want the wife to convert.

Now for the evil demon at the Consulate. She knows that muslim men can marry jewish women. She also knows that it happens more often than she wants to admit. The problem here isn't that she truly believes that a muslim men can't marry a jewish women, the issue is more that she had already decided to send their petition back long before the interview, and this was an excuse she is using to justify it.

The people are trained to look for "flags". And these over zealous CO's have found a way to put a red flag where there is none. Really I don't want to stop them from doing their job. I would really be mortified if a terrorist slipped though the cracks. I just want to see them follow their own procedures.

I have a friend thats just wrote me about her husband friend from Amman. They had their interview and they also questioned the validity of their relationship and issued the 22`g. The difference between Amman and Casablanca is that they told them what the problem is, and are giving them an opportunity to bring in information to prove the validity of their marriage. This consulate is following the documented procedues. Too bad Morocco can't see how they do things.

Hmm.. to your first statement.. I did know of a married couple (not from VJ) who were interviewed at Casa by a CO that spoke French and the Moroccan dialect of Arabic. They said she was a real tw*t, but they eventually got the visa. This was some time ago but according to VJ this evil chick has been around for a long time. So I'm guessing she was an american citizen by birth that grew up with a Moroccan family (even arab people from many other countries have extreme difficulties understanding the moroccan accent). The moroccan dialect is an extremely difficult one to learn unless you grew up there or had family who speaks it. So my only conclusion that these are two different wenches...

For your second statement, that is true.. but.. if the Jewish girls family are orthodox, would they accept the fact that she is converting to islam (or any non Jewish religion for that matter) ?

With your 3rd paragraph, yes.. I do believe that as well.. Where they see red flag, they see denial, they are really trigger happy with the 221(g)'s... I wonder if they're even aware they are breaking the law?

I do agree that they are tearing good relationships apart and bringing uneeded stress to many people, Leila included. I'm sure if enough people banded together, a good solid investigation can be taken into place. but that won't solve anything for now... I really feel terrible for Leila and wish there was something we could all do, but some people have overturned decisions from Morocco, so there is still is a ray of hope.

[babybunny 2]

quote]

why $650 if the form is $110? i'm confused... sorry to be a bother... but do you mind clarifying that statement for me? thank you!

hey I will recommend this if you have not thought of it yourself.

I have pre- Paid legal.

you can sign up for like 36.00 intial

then its 26.00 per month.

I have been a member for 3 years now.

when ever i have an issue I can talk to an attorney as many times as I like

so its an option you can consider. -beats the 75.00 for a 30 min consultation.

shon.. and that is also including questions concerning immigration? could they also help with the 221g stuff?

pre paid legal can help with any and all legal matters. I talked to an attorney before my interview to get advise. I used them with help with an international divorce. once a member you will be assigned a law firm in your area. I like it. they will answer unlimited questions. if you decide to hire an attorney you will be given discount!! in my experiance using pre paid legal. I have called to speak to an attorney they call normallly withinn the 1st hour. there is also an emergency line in case of DUI and that. I recommend this those that wanna save some money. plus they also give you a free will kit. also they can review your documents and things for free. < I have not used that part of the sevice >.

Edited April 6, 2006 by shonjaved

[babybunny 2]

That is a ding dong thing to say considering YOU did not have your interview YET!!

I think you should be offering support you will need it too when you face your

221g.

let me see what are the odds of YOU getting the 221g fate. even if its not returned petiton but, seeing

a 221g lets see the odds.. here is a list of the T "26 "

Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Djibouti, Egypt, Eritrea, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Malaysia, Morocco, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, Turkey, the United Arab Emirates, and Yemen.

looks to me like uhmm Algeria is on that list. so before you start pooping in your Corn flakes! I think you should start reading up on 221g and admin review process you are NOT out the of the woods yet my dear!

My source:

http://www.wolfsdorf.com/articles/Consular...50524.htm#_ftn5

btw, 221g is a TEMP denial. could be for many reasons. one thing we all face is 221g for security checks. some are on it

like 17 days some on it for 2 years < the longest I have seen on VJ>

those from the "T-7 or T-26 " country should expect addtional security checks.

If you have paid any attention to my previous posts anywhere about this lady, I am obviously NOT in support of her actions. I simply made a statement as to WHY she would've given the 221(g), NOT justifying her giving it out. My statement is only a speculation as to why. Now, for others, the reason may not be as apparent. I can see why the CO would doubt, I dont believe it's a good reasoning, but that could be HER reason. And it's not nice to "wish" or assume that just because somebody is sponsoring from a list of those countries, that they are going to get a 221(g).

I think you should read up on 221g and read admin review. while you are at it read up on those

with 221g from Algeria. - after that then come and respond to my assumtion as you say. I dont wish 221g on no one. but, its a reality we all have to face. I dont know any one that walked away without a 221g unless you were a female and being sponsered by a male. I know in our embassy all men are 221g. this can last 17 days to 2 years. its laid out in the Admin review thread. just by being born or visiting a "T-7" or " T-26" country will qualify you a vist to 221g waiting room. there are other factors and if you read them you will be better prepared. oh another thing Admin review 221g is based on the Ds-230 responses and the DS 157 responses. anyways its in the link. -makes for good bathroom reading.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I'm not talking about just palestine... see I'm from Metro detroit and we have about hmm 270,000 muslims living here, Palestinians included, also Lebanese, Yemeni, Pakistani, Iraqi, Bengladeshi, Jordanian, Egyptian, Moroccans and Algerians as well...and I've only met a handfull that didn't express some kind of dislike of Jews or Zionism.. or most of the time, both. If only I had a quarter for every time I've heard one of them say, "You can eat their food, but you can't sleep in their bed." Not that I support those ideas at all, in fact, I tend to shy away from those people who have racist views towards the Jewish faith.

Again, dislike of Zionism is not the same as "anti-semitism." "Zionism" is the political ideology that worldwide Jewry constitute a "nation," that the land of Palestine should be a sovereign Jewish homeland, and that the Jewish people have a divine right to that territory, even at the expense of the indigenous population. "Anti-semitism" is hatred of the Jewish people. The two terms are not interchangeable in meaning, although some would like to portray them as so (especially those who would like to paint any legitimate criticism of Israeli government actions as "anti-Jewish hatred.")

It's very important to realize that not all Jews are Zionists, and not all Zionists are Jews.

I cited my experience in Palestine because, as I mentioned, it's where tensions are at their highest. If anyone would have a reason to "hate Jews," one might think it would be Palestinians. But if you look at the reality, you see that most Palestinians are not "anti-semites;" rather they are anti-Zionists.

I'm sorry if you actually know so many anti-Jewish people. That would be very sad.

But your theory that all or most of the 270,000 Muslims in the Detroit area are "anti-semites" (or that their anti-Zionism is somehow equivalent to "anti-semitism") is simply untrue. Certainly you can find some Muslims who are "anti-semites" (there are "anti-Christian" ones, too,) but they are not the majority. Most Musims are specifically anti-Zionist. I have many close Muslim friends, not just from Palestine, but also from other countries -- Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Pakistan, Libya, Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan. We often have lengthy political and religious discussions. NOT ONE of them has expressed "anti-semitism," but rather "anti-Zionism."

Let us ask the ladies on this board.... do your Muslim husbands express "anti-semitism," or "anti-Zionism" (or both, or neither) ?

-MK

[Jenn! 918]

I'm not talking about just palestine... see I'm from Metro detroit and we have about hmm 270,000 muslims living here, Palestinians included, also Lebanese, Yemeni, Pakistani, Iraqi, Bengladeshi, Jordanian, Egyptian, Moroccans and Algerians as well...and I've only met a handfull that didn't express some kind of dislike of Jews or Zionism.. or most of the time, both. If only I had a quarter for every time I've heard one of them say, "You can eat their food, but you can't sleep in their bed." Not that I support those ideas at all, in fact, I tend to shy away from those people who have racist views towards the Jewish faith.

Again, dislike of Zionism is not the same as "anti-semitism." "Zionism" is the political ideology that worldwide Jewry constitute a "nation," that the land of Palestine should be a sovereign Jewish homeland, and that the Jewish people have a divine right to that territory, even at the expense of the indigenous population. "Anti-semitism" is hatred of the Jewish people. The two terms are not interchangeable in meaning, although some would like to portray them as so (especially those who would like to paint any legitimate criticism of Israeli government actions as "anti-Jewish hatred.")

It's very important to realize that not all Jews are Zionists, and not all Zionists are Jews.

I cited my experience in Palestine because, as I mentioned, it's where tensions are at their highest. If anyone would have a reason to "hate Jews," one might think it would be Palestinians. But if you look at the reality, you see that most Palestinians are not "anti-semites;" rather they are anti-Zionists.

I'm sorry if you actually know so many anti-Jewish people. That would be very sad.

But your theory that all or most of the 270,000 Muslims in the Detroit area are "anti-semites" (or that their anti-Zionism is somehow equivalent to "anti-semitism") is simply untrue. Certainly you can find some Muslims who are "anti-semites" (there are "anti-Christian" ones, too,) but they are not the majority. Most Musims are specifically anti-Zionist. I have many close Muslim friends, not just from Palestine, but also from other countries -- Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Pakistan, Libya, Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan. We often have lengthy political and religious discussions. NOT ONE of them has expressed "anti-semitism," but rather "anti-Zionism."

Let us ask the ladies on this board.... do your Muslim husbands express "anti-semitism," or "anti-Zionism" (or both, or neither) ?

-MK

Thank you so much for discussing this distinction. I, for one, was unaware of the difference, and often misspoke, misrepresenting my own meaning. It is important to understand the distinction, so as to avoid spreading false ideas.

It is a shame that not more people understand the difference. A talk radio guy I listen to, for example, always refers to Islam and Arabs in particular as being overwhelmingly anti-semitic. He is spreading this misinformation to all his listeners.

No wonder people have the predjudices that they do...

Edited April 6, 2006 by jenn3539

[UmmSqueakster 54]

Let us ask the ladies on this board.... do your Muslim husbands express "anti-semitism," or "anti-Zionism" (or both, or neither) ?

-MK

My husband is clearly anti-zionist, but not so much anti-semetic. In fact, since he's gotten here, he's bugged me to go to a synagogue (in addition to a catholic church, etc etc etc). He's spent a lot of his free time (and oh does he have free time without a job) surfing the net, "studying" other faiths.

Living in Egypt and Saudia all his life, he never really met any jewish person and had the wounded pride many egyptians have about their losses to Israel. But, he still is interested in knowing Jewish people, and people of other faiths that he didn't have a chance to meet back home.

Now, there are certain segments of the muslim population that are both anti zionist and anti semetic. Hanging around on muslim internet message boards, I can't count the number of times that I've heard people refer to all the problems "the jews" are causing. But, I hope that this isn't the major thread running through muslim thought.

I went to a university with a fantastic jewish studies program that attracted a lot of jewish students. When we were discussing faith, we had a blast. Our faiths share a lot and I always love my fellow radical monotheists. It was only when we got into the area of Israel/Palestine (which the topic inevitably would) that things got iffy. I can't imagine what the muslim world would be like today if Israel had been put in Uganda, or even if the founding of Israel in it's current location had been gone about in a different manner. *sigh*

[MaryandMian 1]

Let us ask the ladies on this board.... do your Muslim husbands express "anti-semitism," or "anti-Zionism" (or both, or neither) ?

Neither.

[kerewin21 2]

I was trying to stay away from this, but I can't. The truth is that many muslims are anti-semitic. Not just anti-zionist. Anti-semitism is embedded in the Koran. Most muslims are educated from an early age with lies about judaism and jews. Anti-zionism is in my opinion a convenient way for many of them to express their anti-semitism. As I have stated before, I am Jewish, and while my husband has not taken a hatred of Jews to heart, he has taken many incorrect teachings about our history and beliefs to heart and assumes they are fact; I catch him in this often. I can see how it would be very easy to hate Jews based on what is in the Koran

I read an interesting book called "Islam and the Jews: The Unfinished Battle" by Mark Gabriel. He grew up in Egypt and lived through the 6-day war. He was highly educated in the Muslim religion and converted to Christianity later in life. He goes through the Koran and shows how many people are taught to take its words to heart, and at face value many of the passages are anti-semitic.

If you look at any religion's sacred texts you will find things that in modern context are simply ridiculous (eg, an eye for an eye, drowning women who commit adultery, etc). So while I won't say Islam is anti-semitic itself, many people interpret its holy book literally and come to conclusions based upon its writings that Jews must be hated. He argues that this creates a context for today's anti-Zionism.

So is Islam innately anti-semitic? No. Are all muslims anti-semitic? No. But many people who follow it subscribe to a very literal interpretation of its holy writings, which means that many people are educated through the Koran to be anti-semitic.

I agree that the Palestinians, Lebanon, and Egypt have very justified anger towards Israel's past and present expansionist policies, but the hatred is deeper and further back. I'm sorry if I've offended anyone, but like Shon, I can't candy coat this and I can't keep silent.

[honeyblonde 0]

My ex, Mustapha, and Abdel are completely opposite on this topic.

Mustapha considered himself to be a good Muslim and although we never discussed religion too much, he was terrified when he realized that the intern at the dentist's office that was going to be working on him was Jewish. I was delighted when he expressed to me his surprise that the dental intern was gentle with him and didn't hurt him on purpose as he had dreaded. In my opinion, it is this kind of day to day interaction that is necessary to erase prejudice and hatred.

Abdel, on the other hand, is a very educated non-practicing Muslim who views the entire situation in the Middle East even more objectively than I do. I was raised in the home of an extreme right-wing Baptist minister, so I grew up with the line "the Jews are Gods chosen people." and memorized so much of the Bible before I left home that I still remember a good bit of it word for word, even though I don't want to. I personally don't ever see an end to the fighting over there because it is a blood fued between two brothers, now two races, and neither side's government will ever give in. Abdel has no prejudices against Jews at all that I can tell. He loves all cultures and has a desire to learn more about each one although he already seems to be quite well educated about just about any country's history that we discuss.

I think my political science professor that is retired from the World Bank put it best: I wonder how supportive the US would have been of giving Israel back their country if they had been from somewhere in this country, like maybe Florida. Would we have been so eager to give them any of our real estate? This statement is especially meaningful to me because he is Jewish himself.

[Bosco 1]

While antizionism and antisemitism are two different things, I think it is a line very easily crossed. I tend to agree with Sharon that antizionism is often a more convenient way to express antisemitism - it serves in some ways as a politically correct mask for their true feelings.

Some of the most vile, hateful things I have heard have not come from Palestinians or Israelis but from people more detached from the situation - Jewish Americans and Muslim Arabs from parts of the world other than Palestine. While Palestine is where tensions are greatest, I think the proximity in some ways allows them to humanize one another more. I think the lines between antizionism and antisemitism can be clearer since they live it and breath it each day.

I also agree with Sharon about the interpretation of the religious texts/traditions fueling antisemitism for some.

Rebecca