221g

[iceyspots 0]

That is a ding dong thing to say considering YOU did not have your interview YET!!

I think you should be offering support you will need it too when you face your

221g.

let me see what are the odds of YOU getting the 221g fate. even if its not returned petiton but, seeing

a 221g lets see the odds.. here is a list of the T "26 "

Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Djibouti, Egypt, Eritrea, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Malaysia, Morocco, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, Turkey, the United Arab Emirates, and Yemen.

looks to me like uhmm Algeria is on that list. so before you start pooping in your Corn flakes! I think you should start reading up on 221g and admin review process you are NOT out the of the woods yet my dear!

My source:

http://www.wolfsdorf.com/articles/Consular...50524.htm#_ftn5

btw, 221g is a TEMP denial. could be for many reasons. one thing we all face is 221g for security checks. some are on it

like 17 days some on it for 2 years < the longest I have seen on VJ>

those from the "T-7 or T-26 " country should expect addtional security checks.

If you have paid any attention to my previous posts anywhere about this lady, I am obviously NOT in support of her actions. I simply made a statement as to WHY she would've given the 221(g), NOT justifying her giving it out. My statement is only a speculation as to why. Now, for others, the reason may not be as apparent. I can see why the CO would doubt, I dont believe it's a good reasoning, but that could be HER reason. And it's not nice to "wish" or assume that just because somebody is sponsoring from a list of those countries, that they are going to get a 221(g).

I think you should read up on 221g and read admin review. while you are at it read up on those

with 221g from Algeria. - after that then come and respond to my assumtion as you say. I dont wish 221g on no one. but, its a reality we all have to face. I dont know any one that walked away without a 221g unless you were a female and being sponsered by a male. I know in our embassy all men are 221g. this can last 17 days to 2 years. its laid out in the Admin review thread. just by being born or visiting a "T-7" or " T-26" country will qualify you a vist to 221g waiting room. there are other factors and if you read them you will be better prepared. oh another thing Admin review 221g is based on the Ds-230 responses and the DS 157 responses. anyways its in the link. -makes for good bathroom reading.

Saying IF you get one is one thing, saying WHEN you get one is assuming that I AM going to get one. Not everyone from the ME/NA get one, not even EVERYONE in Morocco gets one. When you say you don't know anyone that walked away without a 221(g), then you must be specifically talking about the Islamabad embassy, because there are some on this board who have been approved in Casa, Algiers, etc. MHandMB just got her interview approved in Algiers, no questions asked. Algeria is NOT a state sponsor of terrorism. Algeria used to have internal terrorism problems in the 90's. Thanks to the reformed government and the anti-terrorism sentiments by the people, %99.9 of that terrorism has been eradicated. And I say %99.9 because no country in this world is terrorist free, not even the USA. Algeria knows who terrorists were/are and who are not. Algeria is not known as a high fraud post either. Especially in comparison to Morocco. Do any web search and you'll find that many Moroccans have been apprehended for sham or fraudulent marriages, and not just individually, but on organized scales. I've known many illegal or fraud marriage Moroccans, but as far as Algerians go, I've known many Algerians, some that come on K1 or K3, or on visa diversity lottery, and not one of them got a 221(g). While my chances of getting a 221(g) could happen (as it could happen to anyone, even in Mexico or the Phillipines), I am well prepared. I've only heard of one sham marriage from an Algerian (and that was in Canada, not the U.S.). I mean, even looking at VJ, there are how many couples from Morocco, I believe I did a timeline search not too long ago and there were a little less than 100. And as far as Algerian VJ'ers go, do a timeline search, there are only 8 of us... and probably only 3 that post actively. And I am in no way saying the moroccan petitions are all fraudulent, but the consulate knows of these conditions and it is their red flag, and they feel helpless because they don't have any concrete evidence to deny anyone unless there are obvious signs. Yes, they have a difficult job to do, but if they're not cut out to follow the rules, then they shouldn't be operating the way they are. Also, you have to have read the part where it says "This is not an official list..." and actually I practically cracked up to see Tunisia on there. It's time to face the facts, it is not impossible, but not probable at all that Osama bin Ladin is hiding in Algeria in Tunisia. Is he hiding in Pakistan? That's probable, so of course the security checks are going to be enforced. And also, the nastiness was not neccesary nor appropriate, (It's the last thing we need on this board) as I was providing information to the OP about possibly why the CO would've given her the 221(g). Have you seen me direct obvious nastiness towards anybody on these boards? do a search of my posts, I doubt you'll find any. I may from time to time offer a different viewpoint or additional information on a subject, but I don't resort to snide remarks, I don't stoop to that level.

[iceyspots 0]

I'm not talking about just palestine... see I'm from Metro detroit and we have about hmm 270,000 muslims living here, Palestinians included, also Lebanese, Yemeni, Pakistani, Iraqi, Bengladeshi, Jordanian, Egyptian, Moroccans and Algerians as well...and I've only met a handfull that didn't express some kind of dislike of Jews or Zionism.. or most of the time, both. If only I had a quarter for every time I've heard one of them say, "You can eat their food, but you can't sleep in their bed." Not that I support those ideas at all, in fact, I tend to shy away from those people who have racist views towards the Jewish faith.

Again, dislike of Zionism is not the same as "anti-semitism." "Zionism" is the political ideology that worldwide Jewry constitute a "nation," that the land of Palestine should be a sovereign Jewish homeland, and that the Jewish people have a divine right to that territory, even at the expense of the indigenous population. "Anti-semitism" is hatred of the Jewish people. The two terms are not interchangeable in meaning, although some would like to portray them as so (especially those who would like to paint any legitimate criticism of Israeli government actions as "anti-Jewish hatred.")

It's very important to realize that not all Jews are Zionists, and not all Zionists are Jews.

I cited my experience in Palestine because, as I mentioned, it's where tensions are at their highest. If anyone would have a reason to "hate Jews," one might think it would be Palestinians. But if you look at the reality, you see that most Palestinians are not "anti-semites;" rather they are anti-Zionists.

I'm sorry if you actually know so many anti-Jewish people. That would be very sad.

But your theory that all or most of the 270,000 Muslims in the Detroit area are "anti-semites" (or that their anti-Zionism is somehow equivalent to "anti-semitism") is simply untrue. Certainly you can find some Muslims who are "anti-semites" (there are "anti-Christian" ones, too,) but they are not the majority. Most Musims are specifically anti-Zionist. I have many close Muslim friends, not just from Palestine, but also from other countries -- Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Pakistan, Libya, Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan. We often have lengthy political and religious discussions. NOT ONE of them has expressed "anti-semitism," but rather "anti-Zionism."

Let us ask the ladies on this board.... do your Muslim husbands express "anti-semitism," or "anti-Zionism" (or both, or neither) ?

-MK

I am aware of the differences between the two, but unfortunately there a quite a few people who don't make that distinction. I never meant to imply that most or all of the 270,000 muslims in the Detroit area are anti-semites or anti-zionist, I'm telling you my personal experience with most that I have personally met have felt this way. This could be just by chance. Some of the people I have talked to have made obvious distinctions, saying that they don't approve of their views on faith and they don't agree with their zionist policy. There are christian-zionists, there are jewish anti-zionists (yes I've worked with them quite a bit), there are jewish zionists.. etc etc.. the list goes on. Me and Yacine are obviously anti-zionist, but not anti-semetic. Yacine has had experiences with Jews in Algeria (yes they do exist, and christians do as well there), and he's been burned by them on numerous occassions. I've been trying to convince him to look at them in a better light, and that there are more jews out there than just only in Israel and Algeria. Education is the key.

[Veiled Princess 1]

I think my political science professor that is retired from the World Bank put it best: I wonder how supportive the US would have been of giving Israel back their country if they had been from somewhere in this country, like maybe Florida. Would we have been so eager to give them any of our real estate? This statement is especially meaningful to me because he is Jewish himself.

I am not going to get into the anti-zionist/anti-semetic portion of this thread BUT I had to comment on this one!!!! Being Native American (Cherokee) myself, I don't think we even have to ponder the possiblity of this! No one in America cares one tiny bit that the very land we live on today BELONGS TO SOMEONE ELSE!!! No one cares that this govt that we all love so much was built on the MURDERS of my ancestors! There is no talk of FORCING THE EUROPEANS BACK TO THEIR COUNTRY or giving ownership of this land back the the Native Americans because of the injustice done to us in the past. My people get some tiny lot of land as compensation for having our land ripped from our hands, our men killed and our women raped and forced into slavery just so the greedy Europeans could find their "freedom" here! The US support of Isreal is a joke, at the very least, and nothing more than a show of pure hypocracy. No one expects anything more than this from christians anyway so it's really not even worth discussing. When Americans STOP celebrating the defeat of the Native Americans on "Thanks Giving" (another huge joke) then maybe something can be said. And for anyone who intends to reply that if I don't like the policies here that I am free to leave, I reply in advance with "I have true birthright to this land!"

So to answer the question posed.. NO WAY would America give the land back to the original owners as we all can see clearly by the unfair treatment of the native inhabitants of this land.

Sorry if I have offened anyone but this subject is a bit touchy for me.

OK, I'm done venting

[babybunny 2]

Algeria is NOT a state sponsor of terrorism.

how do you know that if they are on the. there is a "T-26" and "T-7 " list for a reason!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Algeria used to have internal terrorism problems in the 90's.

I think 911 has changed alot of things....

Thanks to the reformed government and the anti-terrorism sentiments by the people, %99.9 of that terrorism has been eradicated. And I say %99.9 because no country in this world is terrorist free, not even the USA. Algeria knows who terrorists were/are and who are not. Algeria is not known as a high fraud post either.

Surly you have "FACTS" to state this right? after all algeria knows who all the terrist are.. your double talking my dear!

And I am in no way saying the moroccan petitions are all fraudulent, but the consulate knows of these conditions and it is their red flag, and they feel helpless because they don't have any concrete evidence to deny anyone unless there are obvious signs. but not probable at all that Osama bin Ladin is hiding in Algeria in Tunisia. Is he hiding in Pakistan?

oh of course he would never be hiding in Algeria. because Algeria has the " crystal ball " to all

terrorist. they know all because they are the great terror free country. on the " T-26 " list of course.

That's probable, so of course the security checks are going to be enforced. And also, the nastiness was not neccesary nor appropriate, (It's the last thing we need on this board)

take your own advise FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have you seen me direct obvious nastiness towards anybody on these boards?

yes! thats why I responded the way I did!

I don't resort to snide remarks, I don't stoop to that level.

as a matter of factly you did! I am blunt and matter of the fact. I call it as I see it!

I think my political science professor that is retired from the World Bank put it best: I wonder how supportive the US would have been of giving Israel back their country if they had been from somewhere in this country, like maybe Florida. Would we have been so eager to give them any of our real estate? This statement is especially meaningful to me because he is Jewish himself.

I am not going to get into the anti-zionist/anti-semetic portion of this thread BUT I had to comment on this one!!!! Being Native American (Cherokee) myself, I don't think we even have to ponder the possiblity of this! No one in America cares one tiny bit that the very land we live on today BELONGS TO SOMEONE ELSE!!! No one cares that this govt that we all love so much was built on the MURDERS of my ancestors! There is no talk of FORCING THE EUROPEANS BACK TO THEIR COUNTRY or giving ownership of this land back the the Native Americans because of the injustice done to us in the past. My people get some tiny lot of land as compensation for having our land ripped from our hands, our men killed and our women raped and forced into slavery just so the greedy Europeans could find their "freedom" here! The US support of Isreal is a joke, at the very least, and nothing more than a show of pure hypocracy. No one expects anything more than this from christians anyway so it's really not even worth discussing. When Americans STOP celebrating the defeat of the Native Americans on "Thanks Giving" (another huge joke) then maybe something can be said. And for anyone who intends to reply that if I don't like the policies here that I am free to leave, I reply in advance with "I have true birthright to this land!"

So to answer the question posed.. NO WAY would America give the land back to the original owners as we all can see clearly by the unfair treatment of the native inhabitants of this land.

Sorry if I have offened anyone but this subject is a bit touchy for me.

OK, I'm done venting

No problem Vent. using this stuff for my World Cultures class.

now if you can add 500 more words my report will be finished.

Edited April 6, 2006 by shonjaved

[Together4ever 1]

I'm probably going to get slapped for this, but I have been following this thread and I want to say just this. Ladies, we are already victims of "us vs. them" in this whole "visa journey" and it's really hard to watch it reform itself here within this forum. YES, we are all emotionally charged. This is an extremely hard journey to be on, but just remember... we're really all on the same side of the fence. We've set aside the "us vs. them" and found SO's who are very much different culturally and it doesn't matter, so take a breath fellow humans.

[babybunny 2]

I'm probably going to get slapped for this, but I have been following this thread and I want to say just this. Ladies, we are already victims of "us vs. them" in this whole "visa journey" and it's really hard to watch it reform itself here within this forum. YES, we are all emotionally charged. This is an extremely hard journey to be on, but just remember... we're really all on the same side of the fence. We've set aside the "us vs. them" and found SO's who are very much different culturally and it doesn't matter, so take a breath fellow humans.

nicely put. so why would you be slapped?

[Together4ever 1]

I'm probably going to get slapped for this, but I have been following this thread and I want to say just this. Ladies, we are already victims of "us vs. them" in this whole "visa journey" and it's really hard to watch it reform itself here within this forum. YES, we are all emotionally charged. This is an extremely hard journey to be on, but just remember... we're really all on the same side of the fence. We've set aside the "us vs. them" and found SO's who are very much different culturally and it doesn't matter, so take a breath fellow humans.

nicely put. so why would you be slapped?

Feisty moods! I get them too, believe me!

[kerewin21 2]

On a completely different note, do you think a 2 and a half quart crock pot is big enough to make a tagine in? Or should I just make it over the stove?

[morocco4ever 63]

I think my political science professor that is retired from the World Bank put it best: I wonder how supportive the US would have been of giving Israel back their country if they had been from somewhere in this country, like maybe Florida. Would we have been so eager to give them any of our real estate? This statement is especially meaningful to me because he is Jewish himself.

I am not going to get into the anti-zionist/anti-semetic portion of this thread BUT I had to comment on this one!!!! Being Native American (Cherokee) myself, I don't think we even have to ponder the possiblity of this! No one in America cares one tiny bit that the very land we live on today BELONGS TO SOMEONE ELSE!!! No one cares that this govt that we all love so much was built on the MURDERS of my ancestors! There is no talk of FORCING THE EUROPEANS BACK TO THEIR COUNTRY or giving ownership of this land back the the Native Americans because of the injustice done to us in the past. My people get some tiny lot of land as compensation for having our land ripped from our hands, our men killed and our women raped and forced into slavery just so the greedy Europeans could find their "freedom" here! The US support of Isreal is a joke, at the very least, and nothing more than a show of pure hypocracy. No one expects anything more than this from christians anyway so it's really not even worth discussing. When Americans STOP celebrating the defeat of the Native Americans on "Thanks Giving" (another huge joke) then maybe something can be said. And for anyone who intends to reply that if I don't like the policies here that I am free to leave, I reply in advance with "I have true birthright to this land!"

So to answer the question posed.. NO WAY would America give the land back to the original owners as we all can see clearly by the unfair treatment of the native inhabitants of this land.

Sorry if I have offened anyone but this subject is a bit touchy for me.

OK, I'm done venting

Well I for one am not going to be offended by what you say. Its simply the truth. No I am not Native American, I am also of European descent, but I have to agree. Our ancestors came to your land and took control. And were "generous" to give you that little piece of land in some deserted area to call home. This is as embarassing a part of my heritage as is the slavery. Its a shame that these things happen, and I apologize to you, or anyone else in this matter for the injustices against you. I do hope, however, that we can live in peace together....

This is also one of my pet peeves about this visa process....the majority of Americans are derived from immigrants....how would they all feel if their families had to undergo the visa process that is set up today? On the other hand....maybe that evil wench in Casa wouldn't be there....

On a completely different note, do you think a 2 and a half quart crock pot is big enough to make a tagine in? Or should I just make it over the stove?

[Together4ever 1]

I think my political science professor that is retired from the World Bank put it best: I wonder how supportive the US would have been of giving Israel back their country if they had been from somewhere in this country, like maybe Florida. Would we have been so eager to give them any of our real estate? This statement is especially meaningful to me because he is Jewish himself.

I am not going to get into the anti-zionist/anti-semetic portion of this thread BUT I had to comment on this one!!!! Being Native American (Cherokee) myself, I don't think we even have to ponder the possiblity of this! No one in America cares one tiny bit that the very land we live on today BELONGS TO SOMEONE ELSE!!! No one cares that this govt that we all love so much was built on the MURDERS of my ancestors! There is no talk of FORCING THE EUROPEANS BACK TO THEIR COUNTRY or giving ownership of this land back the the Native Americans because of the injustice done to us in the past. My people get some tiny lot of land as compensation for having our land ripped from our hands, our men killed and our women raped and forced into slavery just so the greedy Europeans could find their "freedom" here! The US support of Isreal is a joke, at the very least, and nothing more than a show of pure hypocracy. No one expects anything more than this from christians anyway so it's really not even worth discussing. When Americans STOP celebrating the defeat of the Native Americans on "Thanks Giving" (another huge joke) then maybe something can be said. And for anyone who intends to reply that if I don't like the policies here that I am free to leave, I reply in advance with "I have true birthright to this land!"

So to answer the question posed.. NO WAY would America give the land back to the original owners as we all can see clearly by the unfair treatment of the native inhabitants of this land.

Sorry if I have offened anyone but this subject is a bit touchy for me.

OK, I'm done venting

Well I for one am not going to be offended by what you say. Its simply the truth. No I am not Native American, I am also of European descent, but I have to agree. Our ancestors came to your land and took control. And were "generous" to give you that little piece of land in some deserted area to call home. This is as embarassing a part of my heritage as is the slavery. Its a shame that these things happen, and I apologize to you, or anyone else in this matter for the injustices against you. I do hope, however, that we can live in peace together....

This is also one of my pet peeves about this visa process....the majority of Americans are derived from immigrants....how would they all feel if their families had to undergo the visa process that is set up today? On the other hand....maybe that evil wench in Casa wouldn't be there....

I actually used that in the summation of my cover letter for my application... about most of us being immigrants. I also have "native blood" so I can see the point there as well. But one thing the Natives of this country believed and I wish people still embraced the philosophy... The land cannot be owned, the land exists freely. We just like to build fences and wave flags.

Ok I'm way off topic so I need to shut up now!

[babybunny 2]

I'm probably going to get slapped for this, but I have been following this thread and I want to say just this. Ladies, we are already victims of "us vs. them" in this whole "visa journey" and it's really hard to watch it reform itself here within this forum. YES, we are all emotionally charged. This is an extremely hard journey to be on, but just remember... we're really all on the same side of the fence. We've set aside the "us vs. them" and found SO's who are very much different culturally and it doesn't matter, so take a breath fellow humans.

nicely put. so why would you be slapped?

Feisty moods! I get them too, believe me!

yeah! I am actully in a good mood. is expecting his passport from Amex.

[chiquita 0]

Algeria is NOT a state sponsor of terrorism.

how do you know that if they are on the. there is a "T-26" and "T-7 " list for a reason!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Algeria used to have internal terrorism problems in the 90's.

I think 911 has changed alot of things....

Thanks to the reformed government and the anti-terrorism sentiments by the people, %99.9 of that terrorism has been eradicated. And I say %99.9 because no country in this world is terrorist free, not even the USA. Algeria knows who terrorists were/are and who are not. Algeria is not known as a high fraud post either.

Surly you have "FACTS" to state this right? after all algeria knows who all the terrist are.. your double talking my dear!

And I am in no way saying the moroccan petitions are all fraudulent, but the consulate knows of these conditions and it is their red flag, and they feel helpless because they don't have any concrete evidence to deny anyone unless there are obvious signs. but not probable at all that Osama bin Ladin is hiding in Algeria in Tunisia. Is he hiding in Pakistan?

oh of course he would never be hiding in Algeria. because Algeria has the " crystal ball " to all

terrorist. they know all because they are the great terror free country. on the " T-26 " list of course.

That's probable, so of course the security checks are going to be enforced. And also, the nastiness was not neccesary nor appropriate, (It's the last thing we need on this board)

take your own advise FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have you seen me direct obvious nastiness towards anybody on these boards?

yes! thats why I responded the way I did!

I don't resort to snide remarks, I don't stoop to that level.

as a matter of factly you did! I am blunt and matter of the fact. I call it as I see it!

I think my political science professor that is retired from the World Bank put it best: I wonder how supportive the US would have been of giving Israel back their country if they had been from somewhere in this country, like maybe Florida. Would we have been so eager to give them any of our real estate? This statement is especially meaningful to me because he is Jewish himself.

I am not going to get into the anti-zionist/anti-semetic portion of this thread BUT I had to comment on this one!!!! Being Native American (Cherokee) myself, I don't think we even have to ponder the possiblity of this! No one in America cares one tiny bit that the very land we live on today BELONGS TO SOMEONE ELSE!!! No one cares that this govt that we all love so much was built on the MURDERS of my ancestors! There is no talk of FORCING THE EUROPEANS BACK TO THEIR COUNTRY or giving ownership of this land back the the Native Americans because of the injustice done to us in the past. My people get some tiny lot of land as compensation for having our land ripped from our hands, our men killed and our women raped and forced into slavery just so the greedy Europeans could find their "freedom" here! The US support of Isreal is a joke, at the very least, and nothing more than a show of pure hypocracy. No one expects anything more than this from christians anyway so it's really not even worth discussing. When Americans STOP celebrating the defeat of the Native Americans on "Thanks Giving" (another huge joke) then maybe something can be said. And for anyone who intends to reply that if I don't like the policies here that I am free to leave, I reply in advance with "I have true birthright to this land!"

So to answer the question posed.. NO WAY would America give the land back to the original owners as we all can see clearly by the unfair treatment of the native inhabitants of this land.

Sorry if I have offened anyone but this subject is a bit touchy for me.

OK, I'm done venting

No problem Vent. using this stuff for my World Cultures class.

now if you can add 500 more words my report will be finished.

Ok Shon, got my chuckle for the day.

(ok not at the subject matter, just the humor sge gives us)

[honeyblonde 0]

Layla,

Thanks for the history. You truly underscored the depth of what my professor said. This country is happy to take what doesn't belong to it and give it away, but only if it doesn't want to keep it itself.

The argument about all of us except the original natives being immigrants has always been the one I use too when people complain about immigrants today. What amazes me is that the same people who complain about illegal, or even legal immigrants are the same ones who complain about NAFTA and other free-trade policies. If they don't want other people to come here, and they don't want to let them be able to make enough to live in their own country so they won't want to come here, what do they want to do with them, just shoot them? What really scares me is how many times the answer to that is probably yes.

I'm really glad that there is a huge art university downtown here, and Abdel's favorite place to go to the park is downtown, so the peope he meets aren't local idiots who are racist. He was telling me about the guys he plays soccer with in the park and where they are from and he called them a "cocktail of races". I'm happy that he is having such a positive experience here since I was worried that he would end up having to deal with rednecks.

Shon, I sure hope your man gets his visa. You had a major case of PMS or something this week. I have never found anything Icyspots said offensive but I guess if you didn't read her post about the CO right it could be taken the wrong way. You two need to just kiss and make up so we can get back to the important topics like food and why men marry us.

[chiquita 0]

I'm probably going to get slapped for this, but I have been following this thread and I want to say just this. Ladies, we are already victims of "us vs. them" in this whole "visa journey" and it's really hard to watch it reform itself here within this forum. YES, we are all emotionally charged. This is an extremely hard journey to be on, but just remember... we're really all on the same side of the fence. We've set aside the "us vs. them" and found SO's who are very much different culturally and it doesn't matter, so take a breath fellow humans.

A bigggggggggggggg thank you!!!!!!!!!! You are so right.

[kerewin21 2]

On a completely different note, do you think a 2 and a half quart crock pot is big enough to make a tagine in? Or should I just make it over the stove?

Phew, it calmed down here while I was finding out the answer to my question (which, by the way, is NO!!! I really really hope someone buys me a dutch oven as a wedding present, cuz the pot I'm using now is far from ideal)