Do these visa categories really contribute to US economy?

[LucindaLou 43]

Quote

Oooooh… you don’t even want to be here OR hustle? I think @Swimming_Upstream would say you are the worst type of spousal GC recipient… you should turn in your green card NOW and give it to a much more deserving Student Visa Holder or Adult Child of an LPR/USC… 😉😉😉

I have never denied being the worst of the worst 😉 All I am saying is that some people make choices they can live with but might not favor. IF I had a problem living in the US I would not subject myself to the insanity, but at the same time I would be ok not going.

 

However I feel my parents would haunt me forever would I give up my citizenship 😉

On a more serious note, depending on what you want for your life the US can be wonderful, but that largely depends on what you want in life.

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by LucindaLou

[Swimming_Upstream 13]

22 hours ago, Demise said:

Okay, explain in your own words what do you think this means.

This means that the FX category is an unnecessary privilege to certain spouses who are not restricted by any limits. This is done so that the category doesn't get jammed up like other categories (F1, F2B, F3, F4, E2, E3...), but at the same time they have the F2A category so that no single country can monopolize this category, and other countries can get a chance to squeeze through. 

But that's meaningless too. Here's how:
In May 2023 top FX and F2A receiving countries are listed below:

Foreign State of Chargeability or Place of Birth	Visa Class	Issuances
China – mainland born	F2A	88
China – mainland born	FX	47
Cuba	F2A	1,234
Cuba	FX	392
Dominican Republic	F2A	1,258
Dominican Republic	FX	1,245
El Salvador	F2A	90
El Salvador	FX	81
Haiti	FX	116
Haiti	F2A	18
India	F2A	254
India	FX	84
Jamaica	F2A	142
Jamaica	FX	77
Mexico	FX	1,835
Philippines	FX	227
Philippines	F2A	178
Vietnam	F2A	314
Vietnam	FX	217

[Swimming_Upstream 13]

And this FX vs F2A craziness wouldn't have happened if only all Green card (LPR) candidates included their spouses (and children) in their original applications as derivative beneficiaries.

So I believe this is how the system plays out. At the beginning of each fiscal year (October), Spouse applications start pouring in. Officials see that the Exempt category of FX is fresh, open with ~65,950 spots available (75% of 77% of 114,000). They start filling them in. By let's say around May of following year all 65,950 spots get filled up. Then they start the F2A category, with ~21,983 spots available, BUT with country limitations. No one country can get more than 7% of this 21,983 spots. So it's possible that the first 14 countries with the most Green card hungry applicants can theoretically fill out these spots (7% x 14 ~ 100%). If you are on the 15th country, you are out of luck,- unless there are some leftovers from other categories.

Edited July 1, 2023 by Swimming_Upstream

[TBoneTX 43,413]

Sincere question, please:  Consequent to this discussion, what are we trying to resolve?

[12juillet 0]

Hello to all,

My 2 cents :

USA needs immigrant :

There is not enough American to sustain the growth of the US economy.

The birth rate is too low.

USA has been made by immigrant. No more immigrant means Google, Tesla, Apple, Best buy, etc would have never existed...

 

The actual immigrant system is broken. Whatever priority you will give, people will be frustrated. So either they will go to some other countries (Canada, Europe, Asia...). Or they will develop a feeling of ´haters´.

My suggestion, open the border.

Of course, they should be some filter on bad guys. But I am convinced that the system will auto regulate. It will grow the economy of the other countries (at the same time), which then reduce the need to leave the country of origin. It is a virtuous circle.

Look for example : Europe and the Schengen area.  French can work in Spain, A German can work in Portugal. No need of any visa. Does it mean that Spain invade France by a ton of immigrant...nope. What about when the wall between east and west has been broken. Does it mean the poor guy from the east invade west germany, nope.....

 

Most people actually love their own country. I know you could find some counter example of course.But if you leave your country of origin, it is for a good reason. Not only for fun.

 

And last advantage, imagine the saving for the US economy: No need of any more USCIS, Lawyer, Consulate, etc...

 

Especially today with some job being done at home. You could work anywhere in the world. Some countries set up some specific remote worker visa to attract more business, more opportunities to come in their country.

And they don't have some many different types of code, type of sorting, if you are a US resident, or an LPR, if it is for a family (spouse,  or kid, above or below 21y), work, so complicated....

 

The question is not who to prioritize or which one profit most to the US economy, the question is does the actual immigrant system is still a mean to sustain the US growth on long term and the place of USA in the world? And the answer is : no, because the system need to be more open.

 

 

[Boiler 43,696]

How are we going to save the Planet, what about Net Zero?

[12juillet 0]

Well, my solution reduces the number of trip to your final country. Because you know you will be approved, then you don't have to let your spouse, kid or whoever in the country of origin. And then you don't need to ask them to come under a touristic visa or you don't have to go yourself to join them again. So you save on trip.

And we already know some people already immigrate due to ecological problem in their countries....so better to save them.....

 

[Boiler 43,696]

Would they not want to go back and visit family and friends?

[12juillet 0]

For sure. But the same for American who wants to visit some other countries in the world.

I think it is another subject.

Even if the ecology could be maybe the trigger to a big reform all over the world about the migration of people.

[Boiler 43,696]

It is a consequence of your plan, the US has the highest emissions per person so a lot more people means a lot more emissions.

 

Just think of the forests that will need to be cut down to build the houses, the amount of concrete needed to be poured.

[12juillet 0]

This is a problem of education. Europe is twice the number of habitant than the USA. Does it mean more emission ...nope.

We need to be sensitive and help to reduce our emissions.

You think that millions of people will invade USA. I am not so sure.

[Boiler 43,696]

Got yah

 

They would need to be educated before allowed entry.

[randomstairs 270]

2 hours ago, 12juillet said:

Hello to all,

My 2 cents :

USA needs immigrant :

There is not enough American to sustain the growth of the US economy.

The birth rate is too low.

USA has been made by immigrant. No more immigrant means Google, Tesla, Apple, Best buy, etc would have never existed...

 

The actual immigrant system is broken. Whatever priority you will give, people will be frustrated. So either they will go to some other countries (Canada, Europe, Asia...). Or they will develop a feeling of ´haters´.

My suggestion, open the border.

Of course, they should be some filter on bad guys. But I am convinced that the system will auto regulate. It will grow the economy of the other countries (at the same time), which then reduce the need to leave the country of origin. It is a virtuous circle.

Look for example : Europe and the Schengen area.  French can work in Spain, A German can work in Portugal. No need of any visa. Does it mean that Spain invade France by a ton of immigrant...nope. What about when the wall between east and west has been broken. Does it mean the poor guy from the east invade west germany, nope.....

 

Most people actually love their own country. I know you could find some counter example of course.But if you leave your country of origin, it is for a good reason. Not only for fun.

 

And last advantage, imagine the saving for the US economy: No need of any more USCIS, Lawyer, Consulate, etc...

 

Especially today with some job being done at home. You could work anywhere in the world. Some countries set up some specific remote worker visa to attract more business, more opportunities to come in their country.

And they don't have some many different types of code, type of sorting, if you are a US resident, or an LPR, if it is for a family (spouse,  or kid, above or below 21y), work, so complicated....

 

The question is not who to prioritize or which one profit most to the US economy, the question is does the actual immigrant system is still a mean to sustain the US growth on long term and the place of USA in the world? And the answer is : no, because the system need to be more open.

 

 

The idealistic part of me agrees that the word should adopt the EU style freedom of movement, based on the logic you presented. In the poorer EU member-states the flow of migration has often reversed (people moving back to the original countries and those born in richer countries seeking unexplored business niches). The process is guided by a kind of law of diffusion: a tendency to make systems equal after removing the barrier between them. 

But the EU didn't just open the borders. It took decades for prospective members to meet the strict criteria, and, importantly, they had to be willing to trade some of their sovereignty for the greater good of the Union. I don't see Canada doing this with the US (relatively similar economies and political systems), let alone Mexico, much less the rest of the world.

Edited July 1, 2023 by randomstairs

[Boiler 43,696]

France does not seem to be enjoying it that much currently 

[Mike E 11,726]

6 hours ago, 12juillet said:

USA needs immigrant :

There is not enough American to sustain the growth of the US economy.

The birth rate is too low

Yes. U.S. needs younger immigrants.

 

7 hours ago, 12juillet said:

My suggestion, open the border.

Of course, they should be some filter on bad guys. But I am convinced that the system will auto regulate

I largely agree.

 

7 hours ago, 12juillet said:

the question is does the actual immigrant system is still a mean to sustain the US growth on long term and the place of USA in the world? And the answer is : no, because the system need to be more open.

Yes

 

5 hours ago, randomstairs said:

I don't see Canada doing this with the US (relatively similar economies and political systems)

I think it is inevitable. UK / Ireland, India / Nepal, Australia / NZ all provide freedom of movement, and the analogies are apt (freedom of movement between relatively high populous and low populous countries), but it will not do anything to address the U.S.’s aging population problem.