I-864 Income Requirement

[PRC Rabbit 40]

Hi folks.  We're applying for AOS from a k1 and got an RFIE for income.  It was very general/broad as if I did not submit anything or somehow cannot establish a fundamental and basic requirement (RFIE vs RFFE).  The only specific note was  about  my failure to  provide a "written explanation for why I don't file tax returns". I'm  reluctant to believe that the 'missing explanation' issue  requires only  a sentence or 2 to fix and frankly,  it's obvious from my paperwork (1099-R's  filing requirement  exempt under $25k).  That would suggest that  the rest of the RFIE was   boilerplate used on every RFIE about income.   I'm starting to go batty and  I need advice on if  I'm overthinking this.

 

My income is over the 100%FPL  for a household of 2 but below 125%FPL.  There is not much wiggle room on income such that  depending on  year, it's $200 - $750 above the threshold so every dollar counts.  The cash assets are better and in August 2018 we easily had over 3x the difference between income and 125%.  Now that we've spent some money it's not as comfortable as it was in August.  So question #1:  Does USCIS acceptance of my I-864/I-485 in August preserve the value of my assets and the income criteria applied when submitted in August 2018? 

 

 The New Year brings up my next question.  As it's  January, I got my 1099-R from 2018 and my new 2019 Annual Benefit  Statement which increases each year as does the FPL.  Am I required to meet the current FPL figures with last years  income or my current 2019 income?  Now that I write the question, it sounds silly but could USCIS exclude my current 2019 income and only apply what was reported last year, 2018?

 

Perhaps I am over thinking this but we have years into getting this far and getting an NOID would be horrible. ned 

[Boiler 43,434]

A Joint Sponsor would seem to be the solution.

[eckoin 211]

Could you clarify:

 

- did you submit an explanation why taxes weren't filed when they weren't filed, or just inferred that it'd be evident from the paperwork? 

 

- at the time you submitted the forms, your income was under 125% of the poverty line and you weren't military, and that's all you submitted? Or did you also submit assets? 

Edited January 6, 2019 by eckoin

[Nitas_man 3,100]

1 hour ago, PRC Rabbit said:

Hi folks.  We're applying for AOS from a k1 and got an RFIE for income.  It was very general/broad as if I did not submit anything or somehow cannot establish a fundamental and basic requirement (RFIE vs RFFE).  The only specific note was  about  my failure to  provide a "written explanation for why I don't file tax returns". I'm  reluctant to believe that the 'missing explanation' issue  requires only  a sentence or 2 to fix and frankly,  it's obvious from my paperwork (1099-R's  filing requirement  exempt under $25k).  That would suggest that  the rest of the RFIE was   boilerplate used on every RFIE about income.   I'm starting to go batty and  I need advice on if  I'm overthinking this.

 

My income is over the 100%FPL  for a household of 2 but below 125%FPL.  There is not much wiggle room on income such that  depending on  year, it's $200 - $750 above the threshold so every dollar counts.  The cash assets are better and in August 2018 we easily had over 3x the difference between income and 125%.  Now that we've spent some money it's not as comfortable as it was in August.  So question #1:  Does USCIS acceptance of my I-864/I-485 in August preserve the value of my assets and the income criteria applied when submitted in August 2018? 

 

 The New Year brings up my next question.  As it's  January, I got my 1099-R from 2018 and my new 2019 Annual Benefit  Statement which increases each year as does the FPL.  Am I required to meet the current FPL figures with last years  income or my current 2019 income?  Now that I write the question, it sounds silly but could USCIS exclude my current 2019 income and only apply what was reported last year, 2018?

 

Perhaps I am over thinking this but we have years into getting this far and getting an NOID would be horrible. ned 

Seems you need to provide them documentation of last year’s income, documentation of current income, and a written explanation of why you did not file taxes and that’s it.  

I have no idea if they will revalidate your assets but we left ours alone until green card was in hand.  Just saying.

 

[PRC Rabbit 40]

I'm not military and yes, I submitted proof of cash-value assets that exceed 3x the difference between my income (which is  over 100% FPL for a household of 2) and 125% of the FPL for household of 2.

3x the difference between income and 125% equals  about $10k and we documented over  $15k in assets.

 

As I re-read the RFIE I see they request 12 months of statements for the assets and we can't comply with that exactly because.

Two of my assets only provide annual statements (401k and Whole Life Insurance) have owned for decades. 

Beneficiary received a  bonus from work before she left Singapore so she has not had the money more than a year yet but it was deposited in US bank since  June, 2018.  She just arrived in the USA!

I'll post the  RFIE.

RFIE p2.pdf

p3 RFIE.pdf

Edited January 6, 2019 by PRC Rabbit

[Liam2021 551]

401k and life insurance is a weak example of assets. for I-864, USCIS want to see you actually have a stable job( that the reason why they want to see your tax return+ current income). I think one of the best solution for this RFE is a join sponsor.

[K1visaHopeful 2,662]

22 minutes ago, Nitas_man said:

Seems you need to provide them documentation of last year’s income, documentation of current income, and a written explanation of why you did not file taxes and that’s it.  

I have no idea if they will revalidate your assets but we left ours alone until green card was in hand.  Just saying.

 

I agree entirely especially on the documentation of current income especially if it meets the 125%. 

100% of the FPGL's is entirely irrelevant to the AOS process though. You need to remove that number from all of your calculations.

[Nitas_man 3,100]

5 minutes ago, PRC Rabbit said:

I'm not military and yes, I submitted proof of cash-value assets that exceed 3x the difference between my income (which is  over 100% FPL for a household of 2) and 125% of the FPL for household of 2.

3x the difference between income and 125% equals  about $10k and we documented over  $15k in assets.

 

As I re-read the RFIE I see they request 12 months of statements for the assets and we can't comply with that exactly because.

Two of my assets only provide annual statements (401k and Whole Life Insurance) have owned for decades. 

Beneficiary received a  bonus from work before she left Singapore so she has not had the money more than a year yet but it was deposited in US bank since  June, 2018.  She just arrived in the USA!

I'll post the  RFIE.

RFIE p2.pdf

p3 RFIE.pdf

 

For assets to qualify they need to be very liquid and easily convertable to cash.  They accepted my 401k’s as assets but whole life?  Doubtful.  

On the 401k’s they only use a percentage.  

 

History:  401k accounts document every single transaction monthly.  It is doubtful that you could not generate a year of history.  

 

I believe that the rule for using the intending immigrant’s assets is 5x not 3x the difference.  If you are using the immigrants assets the bar is higher.

 

You’re in a very gray area, need to generate everything they asked for, and send it in.  If you cannot clearly demonstrate that your current income + assets meets 125% not 100% of the poverty level on the form you need to get a co-sponsor now.  The next letter will be denial if you do not.

[PRC Rabbit 40]

I suspect you may be confusing 5x for Visa and 3x for AOS/Spouse as we're  already married. In fact, the RFIE itself states 3x for Spouse (top page 3).

 You're correct about  the cash value of  Life Insurance policies is markedly less than the  payout value.

 My Whole Life with Prudential has a stated cash value  printed on the  1099-R that I receive each January and the stated cash value is what I used.  It's an old policy I've had for 30+ years that pays dividends and  can be borrowed against. 

Thanks again.   

 

Edited January 6, 2019 by PRC Rabbit

[Nitas_man 3,100]

3 hours ago, PRC Rabbit said:

I suspect you may be confusing 5x for Visa and 3x for AOS/Spouse as we're  already married. In fact, the RFIE itself states 3x for Spouse (top page 3).

 You're correct about  the cash value of  Life Insurance policies is markedly less than the  payout value.

 My Whole Life with Prudential has a stated cash value  printed on the  1099-R that I receive each January and the stated cash value is what I used.  It's an old policy I've had for 30+ years that pays dividends and  can be borrowed against. 

Thanks again.   

 

I’ve done several affidavits and filed for just about everything you can think of.  K3.  AOS.  ROC.  DCF.  Even a rare and almost impossible SB1.  I married overseas before we filed anything.

 

Rules:

For the sponsor’s assets:  3x  

For the beneficiary’s assets:  5x

 

You choose.  Listen to experience or read and understand exactly what the rules are yourself.  You have what I never actually had to deal with in 12 years of living in and out of the US:  a rejected support affidavit.  I’ve never even seen an RFE for that matter.  I filed two of four affidavits on assets alone.  So dont make the mistake of deluding yourself into thinking that I don’t know exactly what to file under what situation and what it takes to get this done.

 

Here are the instructions.  Pay attention to the asset part because it doesn’t sound like you did when you embarked on this great adventure of yours.

 

https://www.uscis.gov/system/files_force/files/form/i-864instr.pdf

[PRC Rabbit 40]

I'll re-read the instructions on Link you posted

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by PRC Rabbit

[K1visaHopeful 2,662]

3 minutes ago, PRC Rabbit said:

So you're suggesting that the published rules and  RFIE itself  are somehow mistaken?

We are married already so any separate vs joint asset distinction is irrelevant now.

 

I dont think you are reading the published rules. 

It's not irrelevant.

 

11 hours ago, Nitas_man said:

 

Rules:

For the sponsor’s assets:  3x  

For the beneficiary’s assets:  5x

 

You choose.  Listen to experience or read and understand exactly what the rules are yourself.  You have what I never actually had to deal with in 12 years of living in and out of the US:  a rejected support affidavit.  I’ve never even seen an RFE for that matter.  I filed two of four affidavits on assets alone.  So dont make the mistake of deluding yourself into thinking that I don’t know exactly what to file under what situation and what it takes to get this done.

 

Here are the instructions.  Pay attention to the asset part because it doesn’t sound like you did when you embarked on this great adventure of yours.

 

https://www.uscis.gov/system/files_force/files/form/i-864instr.pdf

Read page 10, second paragraph of the PDF this commenter kindly linked for you. 

 

[PRC Rabbit 40]

I appreciate your patience  (Nitas Man / K1VisaHopeful), thank you.

I'm just not seeing what you are suggesting.  Am I using the wrong Instructions??

I am using the I-864 Instructions dated 3/6/2018 and it states:

 

Page 10,  Part 7, para 2 "Use of Assets to Supplement Income": 

"However, if you are a U.S. citizen and you are sponsoring your spouse or child age 18 years of age or older, the total value of your assets must only be equal to at least three times the difference"   

 

Page 12 "What if I cannot meet the income requirements?" subd  3:

'The value of your assets, ..any household member...or the assets of the intending immigrant's... may be combined'

 

Page 9, Part 7,  para 1: "If total household income does not meet the income requirement, you may submit evidence of the value of your assets, the   sponsored immigrants ..... and the assets of all these persons  may be combined" 

 

We have over 100% FPL Income but less than 125%. Our cash assets exceed 3x the difference.

 

What am I missing or misunderstanding?  Ned

[carmel34 3,531]

3 hours ago, PRC Rabbit said:

I appreciate your patience  (Nitas Man / K1VisaHopeful), thank you.

I'm just not seeing what you are suggesting.  Am I using the wrong Instructions??

I am using the I-864 Instructions dated 3/6/2018 and it states:

 

Page 10,  Part 7, para 2 "Use of Assets to Supplement Income": 

"However, if you are a U.S. citizen and you are sponsoring your spouse or child age 18 years of age or older, the total value of your assets must only be equal to at least three times the difference"   

 

Page 12 "What if I cannot meet the income requirements?" subd  3:

'The value of your assets, ..any household member...or the assets of the intending immigrant's... may be combined'

 

Page 9, Part 7,  para 1: "If total household income does not meet the income requirement, you may submit evidence of the value of your assets, the   sponsored immigrants ..... and the assets of all these persons  may be combined" 

 

We have over 100% FPL Income but less than 125%. Our cash assets exceed 3x the difference.

 

What am I missing or misunderstanding?  Ned

Item #10 clearly states that the asset rule is 5 X the difference for the total, combined assets, and then later states the for the US citizen, the asset rule is 3 X the difference for YOUR assets, meaning if you combine your assets and the beneficiary's the 5 X rule applies, but if they are only your USC assets to be used to make up the difference, the 3 X rule applies.  I suppose they could consider the two asset amounts separately, but if they do that they will apply the 5 X rule to the beneficiary's assets.  That seems pretty clear in the instructions for item 10.

Edited January 7, 2019 by carmel34
*

[PRC Rabbit 40]

I would never have read these rules to differentiate ownership of  'cash assets'  between husband & wife to  apply different standards within the same household.  The concepts of Equitable Distribution  and  Marital Property from  'divorce-land'  come to mind.  This reading of the rules is prehistoric.  I do recognize that the "intended meaning" in promulgating a rule  and USCIS'  subsequent  "applied meaning" can be profoundly  different.

 

I don't think anyone could read these rules in that manner. Thanks for pointing it out Carmel34 .

For  couples  married & living together in USA  via K1, the USC's name on all cash accounts defeats the  5x  criteria? 

Sounds too easy  to circumvent yet I've spent that much pre-marriage on travel to Singapore.

Our accounts are co-mingled already and she's already Beneficiary of my Life Ins (Whole Life). 

 

I need to ponder and search this for awhile. Thanks Carmel34 for cluing me into what I missed.

Edited January 7, 2019 by PRC Rabbit