South Carolina woman kills escaped jail inmate who kicked down her door, sheriff says

[Boiler 43,436]

56 minutes ago, bcking said:

Makes me wonder if people actually have children. Relying solely on education for a child to keep them safe from a firearm? I worry for those children.

 

It was more the fact that you doubled down and I realized I've been down this road before and it's a waste of time. I'm certainly not holy. Just trying to not waste my time with nonsense.

 

I'm also not perfect, so I do still occasionally reply despite my best intentions.

Of course it is not just guns, so many dangerous things, knives, electricity, gas, water etc etc etc, I worry for children who may be forced to be around those.

[bcking 3,157]

7 hours ago, Boiler said:

Of course it is not just guns, so many dangerous things, knives, electricity, gas, water etc etc etc, I worry for children who may be forced to be around those.

Absolutely. Hopefully with small children you have child locks on your drawers, especially ones with knives. Outlets should also be covered. Perhaps we used to have a serious issue with accidental electrocution (sadly I'm sure there are still cases). My guess is we didn't have an "electrical outlet" lobby trying to deny they are connected and not support proper protection for children.

 

I'm not saying people have to do anything about this, but to deny that keeping a loaded gun in a drawer is a risk to your children is asinine. You may think it's an acceptably small risk for your children, but it's certainly a risk. Assuming you can just educate a 6 year old properly and that's it is also a risk. There is an average of around 100 deaths a year in children due to unintentional firearm injury, the rate of nonfatal injury I'm sure is much higher.

 

While that loaded gun might afford some personal protection, it is also a risk. The question is how much risk is okay for the benefit of that personal protection? I'm fairly risk averse when it comes to children, don't know about you.

 

[Dashinka 23,247]

1 hour ago, bcking said:

Absolutely. Hopefully with small children you have child locks on your drawers, especially ones with knives. Outlets should also be covered. Perhaps we used to have a serious issue with accidental electrocution (sadly I'm sure there are still cases). My guess is we didn't have an "electrical outlet" lobby trying to deny they are connected and not support proper protection for children.

 

I'm not saying people have to do anything about this, but to deny that keeping a loaded gun in a drawer is a risk to your children is asinine. You may think it's an acceptably small risk for your children, but it's certainly a risk. Assuming you can just educate a 6 year old properly and that's it is also a risk. There is an average of around 100 deaths a year in children due to unintentional firearm injury, the rate of nonfatal injury I'm sure is much higher.

 

While that loaded gun might afford some personal protection, it is also a risk. The question is how much risk is okay for the benefit of that personal protection? I'm fairly risk averse when it comes to children, don't know about you.

 

So what you are saying is better education.  Btw, when I say education, I am not talking just about teaching children how to respect a firearm, but also teaching adults how to handle things around children whether it be a gun, a knife, hand tools, etc.  Additionally, that lobbying group you reference is the one that provides the best education to adults as to how to handle firearms, the NRA does not advocate irresponsible gun ownership. 

 

You mention the 100 accidental deaths due to firearms, how many children are killed each year due to not being properly strapped into a car seat?  How many die due to other accidents (animal attacks, medical malpractice, etc.).  No one wants to see any of these incidents, but they all seem to have one thing in common, improperly educated adults.

[bcking 3,157]

10 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

So what you are saying is better education.  Btw, when I say education, I am not talking just about teaching children how to respect a firearm, but also teaching adults how to handle things around children whether it be a gun, a knife, hand tools, etc.  Additionally, that lobbying group you reference is the one that provides the best education to adults as to how to handle firearms, the NRA does not advocate irresponsible gun ownership. 

 

You mention the 100 accidental deaths due to firearms, how many children are killed each year due to not being properly strapped into a car seat?  How many die due to other accidents (animal attacks, medical malpractice, etc.).  No one wants to see any of these incidents, but they all seem to have one thing in common, improperly educated adults.

Let's take the car seat example.

 

The danger here is a car. No one can deny that driving with an infant is dangerous. It absolutely is. So we have ways to protect the infant. It doesn't make it perfect, but it significantly reduces risk. At that point you then have to ask how necessary is driving the car with the infant at all? When I used to see healthy infants in clinic I would always advocate to not go anywhere with the infant unless necessary, especially in the first few weeks. However of course some trips are necessary, so you do what you can to minimize the risk.

 

The same can be applied to firearm ownership at home. The danger is the firearm. Without the firearm the child can't accidentally shoot him/herself, his/her sibling or anyone else. So the question is how necessary is the firearm, and what can you do to alleviate the risk. Education absolutely is great, but for a young child is going to quite limited in its effectiveness. Secure gun storage will help, though it won't be 100% (like a car seat, first because of improper use like forgetting to lock it, and second because nothing is perfect). So you have to decide how necessary the firearm ownership is for you, while awknowledging the risk you are talking for your children.

 

I'm not telling parents to get rid of their guns. I'd strongly recommend storing them securely with children in the home. If you choose not to that's fine, but you should do so while acknowledging that you are increasing the risk for your child. It's irresponsible to deny that risk.

 

[Ban Hammer 12,839]

[bcking 3,157]

6 minutes ago, Ban Hammer said:

I don't know about you but I was pretty quick to throw out my lettuce...

 

Everything comes down to risk vs benefit. The benefits of being able to eat romaine were out done by the risk, even though the risk is low.

 

Similarly I've never seen a significant benefit to owning an AR-15, so the risk of owning one clearly wins out. Everyone will have their own risk/benefit ratio, which is fine. The benefits may be greater for you, but it's still irresponsible to ignore the risks.

Edited December 6, 2018 by bcking

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

Everybody over reacts becuse of law suits. I had a mylogram yesterday and they would not release me to drive home. The wife does not drive in traffic,  so we drove around the corner and swapped. 

 

Also said not to go to work the next but here I am already put in 2000 steps. The body knows when to slow down. They just say that to cover lawsuits 

[bcking 3,157]

4 minutes ago, The Nature Boy said:

Everybody over reacts becuse of law suits. I had a mylogram yesterday and they would not release me to drive home. The wife does not drive in traffic,  so we drove around the corner and swapped. 

 

Also said not to go to work the next but here I am already put in 2000 steps. The body knows when to slow down. They just say that to cover lawsuits 

Have you been eating romaine lettuce?

 

I know several people who did not throw out their lettuce, despite knowing the recommendation/risks. Realistically the risk was very low to most people and they really didn't want to waste food.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

1 minute ago, bcking said:

Have you been eating romaine lettuce?

 

I know several people who did not throw out their lettuce, despite knowing the recommendation/risks. Realistically the risk was very low to most people and they really didn't want to waste food.

I try to stay away from veggies and non processed foods. Eating  junk keeps my sugar up. Which helps me loose weight 

[Dashinka 23,247]

3 hours ago, bcking said:

Let's take the car seat example.

 

The danger here is a car. No one can deny that driving with an infant is dangerous. It absolutely is. So we have ways to protect the infant. It doesn't make it perfect, but it significantly reduces risk. At that point you then have to ask how necessary is driving the car with the infant at all? When I used to see healthy infants in clinic I would always advocate to not go anywhere with the infant unless necessary, especially in the first few weeks. However of course some trips are necessary, so you do what you can to minimize the risk.

 

The same can be applied to firearm ownership at home. The danger is the firearm. Without the firearm the child can't accidentally shoot him/herself, his/her sibling or anyone else. So the question is how necessary is the firearm, and what can you do to alleviate the risk. Education absolutely is great, but for a young child is going to quite limited in its effectiveness. Secure gun storage will help, though it won't be 100% (like a car seat, first because of improper use like forgetting to lock it, and second because nothing is perfect). So you have to decide how necessary the firearm ownership is for you, while awknowledging the risk you are talking for your children.

 

I'm not telling parents to get rid of their guns. I'd strongly recommend storing them securely with children in the home. If you choose not to that's fine, but you should do so while acknowledging that you are increasing the risk for your child. It's irresponsible to deny that risk.

 

So you make house calls so new parents do not have to transport their infant, potentially improperly, in a vehicle?

[bcking 3,157]

32 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

So you make house calls so new parents do not have to transport their infant, potentially improperly, in a vehicle?

In an ideal world we would. In the UK many of the initial visits for infants still occur via house calls with a midwife or a nurse.

 

Risk and benefits, once again. We advocate picking a pediatrician close to home. You'll visit them 2-3 times in the first month. Unless necessary that should be the only traveling you do during that time. 

 

Of course if we could have everything we wanted we would go to everyone's homes. It's just not practical or possible given our current system of healthcare. I wish we could.

 

To bring that concept back to the discussion in this thread - storing guns in a safe as a safety precaution is a perfectly practical. People still may not choose to do it, but that is not because it isn't easily doable.

[TBoneTX 43,058]

2 hours ago, The Nature Boy said:

I try to stay away from veggies and non processed foods. Eating  junk keeps my sugar up. Which helps me loose weight 

Some of us didn't claw our way to the top of the food chain merely to eat vegetables...

[bcking 3,157]

3 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

Some of us didn't claw our way to the top of the food chain merely to eat vegetables...

We did it to eat flaming hot Cheetos and spam.

[Dashinka 23,247]

8 minutes ago, bcking said:

In an ideal world we would. In the UK many of the initial visits for infants still occur via house calls with a midwife or a nurse.

 

Risk and benefits, once again. We advocate picking a pediatrician close to home. You'll visit them 2-3 times in the first month. Unless necessary that should be the only traveling you do during that time. 

 

Of course if we could have everything we wanted we would go to everyone's homes. It's just not practical or possible given our current system of healthcare. I wish we could.

 

To bring that concept back to the discussion in this thread - storing guns in a safe as a safety precaution is a perfectly practical. People still may not choose to do it, but that is not because it isn't easily doable.

And people may choose to transport their children in a vehicle regardless of what others recommend.  I am all for adults being responsible relative to guns as I have said many times, but as I also said, you cannot fix stupid and although I hate seeing the stories of kids being killed in any manner, if their parents are so irresponsible there is nothing any laws, or recommendations can do.

[TBoneTX 43,058]

4 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

people may choose to transport their children in a vehicle regardless of what others recommend.

Often in vehicles that have completely bald tyres*.

 

*should be the mandatory spelling