Denied re-entry with advance parole?

[KatenkaMishka 12]

26 minutes ago, andrewtan421 said:

Yes I was able to return easily. The only hiccup you may experience is convincing the people at the check-in counter of the country you are leaving to return to the US that you have this thing called an Advance Parole that allows you travel into the US without a visa. When you go through immigration in the US, present your combo card and say that you are requesting parole into the country. They will ask you to sit on the side while they process your paperwork. It took them 15 minutes to process mine, after which I was allowed to enter the country.

Thank you! Your story gives me some hope . I have approved advance parole and haven’t seen my mom for more than 4 years and really want to go to see her this May , but I have previously overstayer F1 visa and a little afraid they might say I’m inadmissible when returning to the US.

[andrewtan421 3]

1 hour ago, KatenkaMishka said:

Thank you! Your story gives me some hope . I have approved advance parole and haven’t seen my mom for more than 4 years and really want to go to see her this May , but I have previously overstayer F1 visa and a little afraid they might say I’m inadmissible when returning to the US.

How many days did you overstay on F1 visa?

[KatenkaMishka 12]

9 minutes ago, andrewtan421 said:

How many days did you overstay on F1 visa?

Well, with F1 visa things are a bit different than other visas, there is no “end date” when you enter, I’ve got D/S stamp in my passport , which  means “duration of status”, but answering your question - I overstayed for more than 180 days after I lost my student status (but didn’t acquire unlawful presence because of F1 visa type) and got back into status after 200 days . Technically speaking , I shouldn’t be considered “inadmissible” but they still might don’t  like the fact of me being out of status for period of more than 180 days. 

[andrewtan421 3]

1 minute ago, KatenkaMishka said:

Well, with F1 visa things are a bit different than other visas, there is no “end date” when you enter, I’ve got D/S stamp in my passport , which  means “duration of status”, but answering your question - I overstayed for more than 180 days after I lost my student status (but didn’t acquire unlawful presence because of F1 visa type) and got back into status after 200 days . Technically speaking , I shouldn’t be considered “inadmissible” but they still might don’t  like the fact of me being out of status for period of more than 180 days. 

I understand - I was on F1 too when I first started. Honesty is the best policy here. It will only make things worse if they find out you made something up. You can try talking to an immigration attorney over the phone to get their professional opinion on the situation. I have consulted an immigration attorney over the phone either for free or for a very small fee.

[geowrian 22,335]

3 minutes ago, KatenkaMishka said:

Well, with F1 visa things are a bit different than other visas, there is no “end date” when you enter, I’ve got D/S stamp in my passport , which  means “duration of status”, but answering your question - I overstayed for more than 180 days after I lost my student status (but didn’t acquire unlawful presence because of F1 visa type) and got back into status after 200 days . Technically speaking , I shouldn’t be considered “inadmissible” but they still might don’t  like the fact of me being out of status for period of more than 180 days. 

This was recently changed.

While you are admitted D/S, once your SEVIS record is terminated, you are considered out of status. However, previously this did not accrue unlawful presence unless USCIS or an IJ determined that you were out of status. With the change in 2018, unlawful presence starts accruing the moment the SEVIS record is terminated.

See https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Laws/Memoranda/2018/2018-08-09-PM-602-1060.1-Accrual-of-Unlawful-Presence-and-F-J-and-M-Nonimmigrants.pdf

 

Note that any overstay is not an issue when you have AP. See Matter of Arrabally.

[KatenkaMishka 12]

15 minutes ago, geowrian said:

This was recently changed.

While you are admitted D/S, once your SEVIS record is terminated, you are considered out of status. However, previously this did not accrue unlawful presence unless USCIS or an IJ determined that you were out of status. With the change in 2018, unlawful presence starts accruing the moment the SEVIS record is terminated.

See https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Laws/Memoranda/2018/2018-08-09-PM-602-1060.1-Accrual-of-Unlawful-Presence-and-F-J-and-M-Nonimmigrants.pdf

 

Note that any overstay is not an issue when you have AP. See Matter of Arrabally.

Yep, that’s absolutely correct, that new change came into effect on August 9th of 2018, so now people who are out of F1 status automatically started accumulating unlawful presence since that date. My only hope and saving grace would be if  they wouldn’t count my days being out of status because they happened prior August 9th of 2018, and also as you mentioned that Matter of Arabally case. I have ongoing conversations with lawyers for years now , all of them say that traveling with AP isn’t considered to be a “departure” , therefore 3/10 bars can’t be triggered in case of unlawful presence . But I’m still afraid and never met a person who would actually travel on AP with similar situation. I guess I’ll be the first one lol 😂Thank you though , your information is correct and helpful!

[KatenkaMishka 12]

25 minutes ago, andrewtan421 said:

I understand - I was on F1 too when I first started. Honesty is the best policy here. It will only make things worse if they find out you made something up. You can try talking to an immigration attorney over the phone to get their professional opinion on the situation. I have consulted an immigration attorney over the phone either for free or for a very small fee.

Oh cool , so you also had F1 visa. I have immigration lawyers working on my complicated case and they say the risk is minimal, but you never know what those immigration officers can come up with at the US border. So that’s why I’m trying to  reach out to people on this forum , to see the real cases and decide for myself if I should use AP for travel . Thank you again!!

[Ermin&Zijada 141]

On 6/27/2018 at 11:36 AM, KeratNY said:

I think that people are perceiving "an immigration unfriendly" environment and erroneously applying it to their own situation. I think in each situation people need to balance out the upside of an international trip with the assessed risk. The upside is usually immediately apparent to each person. Believe me my next trip is highly important to my wife and I and it would be a massive pain to us to wait another 8+ months for it.

 

The risk of re-entry is not immediately apparent. There are no denial statistics for this, so I think it makes sense that people try to assess if using advance parole is a 1% risk, a 10% risk, a 25% risk, and so forth, to make the right decision.  People can be "worried"  or "afraid" to go, but after asking these types of questions and if they assess the risk as very low (which I have done but others have not), the upside of the travel is still worth it. I have assessed the risk as 1%-5% which is still too high for my comfort but balanced against the joy and benefits of the trip I believe the ratio makes sense for me to go. 

 

I agree that the first travel ban was the only situation in recent and not-so-recent history where green card holders were (temporarily) being denied, and that was a fiasco that was quickly rectified. So @Ermin&Zijadapointing to that as a relevant example as something that could happen to AP is completely illegitimate. That was very very clearly a one time thing that was a mistake the Trump administration learned.  But they have assessed the risk as too high compared to the upside they would get. 

 

So the choices are indeed "simple."  But it is not an easy choice and I think people here are doing their background research to assess the risk. 

Tell that to the people who were held up at airports for hours upon hours. Im sure to them it wasn't "completely illegitimate". I also think its quite a different story for someone to weight the dangers of visiting Canada and lets say a muslim majority country.  

[Teemo 252]

On 3/23/2019 at 10:13 PM, KatenkaMishka said:

Yep, that’s absolutely correct, that new change came into effect on August 9th of 2018, so now people who are out of F1 status automatically started accumulating unlawful presence since that date. My only hope and saving grace would be if  they wouldn’t count my days being out of status because they happened prior August 9th of 2018, and also as you mentioned that Matter of Arabally case. I have ongoing conversations with lawyers for years now , all of them say that traveling with AP isn’t considered to be a “departure” , therefore 3/10 bars can’t be triggered in case of unlawful presence . But I’m still afraid and never met a person who would actually travel on AP with similar situation. I guess I’ll be the first one lol 😂Thank you though , your information is correct and helpful!

I traveled using AP in a similar situation. Long term overstay, subject to 10 year bar. I traveled on AP not once, not twice, but 7 times. 3 for vacation with my wife, 4 times for work. All were identical. Sent to secondary screening. Routine questions. Stamped and sent on my way. I researched the heck out of this. All IOs know Matter of Arabally and know what to do. They see dozens of overstays on AP everyday and they should all get in, barring a security risk or the app gets denied when they are out of the country. 

[Teemo 252]

On 3/27/2019 at 1:24 PM, Ermin&Zijada said:

Tell that to the people who were held up at airports for hours upon hours. Im sure to them it wasn't "completely illegitimate". I also think its quite a different story for someone to weight the dangers of visiting Canada and lets say a muslim majority country.  

Dumb. AP is AP. Yes if you go to Iraq or Syria you might have a problem. But that is because of reasons other than the AP, it's because you might present a security risk. I went to a Muslim majority country for 11 days using AP. One of the 7 times I used AP. All were routine to get back in, perhaps on this visit I got one more question "Why did you go to this country."

 

Are you still using this one incredibly isolated incident (an illegal and confusing travel ban that got reversed 48 hours later) to scare everyone out of using AP?

[Ermin&Zijada 141]

3 minutes ago, Teemo said:

Dumb. AP is AP. Yes if you go to Iraq or Syria you might have a problem. But that is because of reasons other than the AP, it's because you might present a security risk. I went to a Muslim majority country for 11 days using AP. One of the 7 times I used AP. All were routine to get back in, perhaps on this visit I got one more question "Why did you go to this country."

 

Are you still using this one incredibly isolated incident (an illegal and confusing travel ban that got reversed 48 hours later) to scare everyone out of using AP?

In fact I am. Considering the political climate towards immigrants is still very much unstable. We waited for the Green Card before traveling and would recommend doing so to all others. Glad it worked out for you Mr. Snarky!

[Teemo 252]

6 minutes ago, Ermin&Zijada said:

In fact I am. Considering the political climate towards immigrants is still very much unstable. We waited for the Green Card before traveling and would recommend doing so to all others. Glad it worked out for you Mr. Snarky!

Well, we could do a lot of things because of isolated incidents. We could never take an Uber because an Uber driver killed a passenger one time. But it's not so rational to do so. Matter of Arabally is settled case law, unless it gets withdrawn which would be all over the forums.  It has been in effect for years. I researched this so much and got very comfortable with it. It's not a loophole or a mistake or something temporary. If you leave and use AP to return, you have not "departed" the US and are not triggering the bar. I used it 7x and my long overstay never came up. Sounds like you were scared of not getting in because of some security issue. I understand it's scary. It was scary for me too, which is why I spent so much time researching it. There is no upcoming travel ban that would happen with 1 day notice. Trump learned his lesson there within 48 hours. He couldn't do it again even if he wanted to. It's not rational to use this as your argument. The only rational argument against it is "I can absolutely do it, but it's scary and not worth the stress and mental toll." That resonates. But hopefully my experience doing it 7 times can give others some comfort. 

Edited August 31, 2019 by Teemo

[Ermin&Zijada 141]

3 minutes ago, Teemo said:

Well, we could do a lot of things because of isolated incidents. We could never take an Uber because an Uber driver killed a passenger one time. But it's not so rational to do so. Matter of Arabally is settled case law, unless it gets withdrawn which would be all over the forums.  It has been in effect for years. I researched this so much and got very comfortable with it. It's not a loophole or a mistake or something temporary. If you leave and use AP to return, you have not "departed" the US and are not triggering the bar. I used it 7x and my long overstay never came up. Sounds like you were scared of not getting in because of some security issue. I understand it's scary. It was scary for me too, which is why I spent so much time researching it. There is no upcoming travel ban that would happen with 1 day notice. Trump learned his lesson there within 48 hours. He couldn't do it again even if he wanted to. It's not rational to use this as your argument. The only rational argument against it is "I can absolutely do it, but it's scary and not worth the stress and mental toll." That resonates. But hopefully my experience doing it 7 times can give others some comfort. 

I understand that and I get that in most cases nothing would go wrong but we personally did not want to risk it. I am currently in the process of becoming an immigration lawyer and interned at an immigration firm over the summer. You would be surprised by how many routine things take a turn for no good reason at all. Even court procedures that have been in place for decades have changed seemingly over night. 

[Teemo 252]

11 minutes ago, Ermin&Zijada said:

I understand that and I get that in most cases nothing would go wrong but we personally did not want to risk it. I am currently in the process of becoming an immigration lawyer and interned at an immigration firm over the summer. You would be surprised by how many routine things take a turn for no good reason at all. Even court procedures that have been in place for decades have changed seemingly over night. 

I was going to let this go until you said are going to become an immigration lawyer. Unlike many here, I have great respect for lawyers and those who would devote their lives to helping immigrants navigate the law. However, when I became obsessed with this advance parole issue, I started polling many different lawyers. I found them online, in forums, I called them up for free or cheap consultations etc. In the end, I got an answer from 10 of them on whether to travel on AP as an overstay. Do you know how many of them did not know or understand Matter of Arabally? 6 of them. 6! 60% didn't know this basic thing that would affect my life so deeply! Look, this is one of my threads online if you want to see an example: https://my-secure.justanswer.com/question/index/3a7c0ff9803c4431a522b9383a9d5583

 

These are professionals who go to school for many years and get paid a lot of money who don't do even the most basic research to understand something. Anyway, of the 4 who did know Matter of Arabally, two of them STILL told me not to go! why? One of them didn't understand it very well and the other said "this deals with overstay not unauthorized employment." Technically he's right, but practically he's dead wrong as pretty much every overstay has unauthorized employment. IO will not bar you from using AP because of unauthorized employment when you are married to a US citizen and knows it will be forgiven. 

 

So that left 2 immigration lawyers out of 10 who knew Matter of Arabally and could confidently explain it and give me comfort. 2! So in my small sample size, only 20% of immigration lawyers knew what they were doing. This is depressingly small and made me cynical about immigration lawyers and using such highly paid professionals. 

 

So I urge you, understand the immigration law. But also understand the case law. Understand what is happening on the ground. Understand practicality, not just theory. Understand what clients and travelers and applicants are experiencing and conveying. And give the very best advice you have, not just the most conservative advice or the advice that has ZERO risk just because you're a risk averse person. You can always qualify something. No lawyer said to me I have 100% chance of getting in. They put the risk in context. You can always tell your clients it is not guaranteed. But if you tell your clients "don't travel on AP because it is too risky" despite Matter of Arabally telling you otherwise and the experience of 10s of thousands of travelers, you will be in the category of 80% of lawyers I would tell people to stay away from like above. And that would be a damn shame. 

 

Good luck in your emergent career and I wish you a long and successful one. 

[Ly&Ri 2]

Its 2019 and things change all the time. Has anyone attempted to travel recently and had any issues? Please advise.

Edited August 31, 2019 by Ly&Ri