Trump shifts blame to violent video games, movies in gun violence discussion

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

9 minutes ago, bcking said:

Who wouldn't cause mass shootings? They wouldn't have the guns to do so, as you suggest.

 

Sounds an awful lot like other countries with strict gun control.

No, but they could still cause mass murder.  Guns simply make it easy for cowards to harm others.  I knife wielder might only kill 2-5 people instead of 15-20.

[OriZ 3,157]

11 hours ago, -Trinity- said:

That's why I said banning videogames isn't the solution. But parents should be more aware of who or rather WHAT is raising their kids. 

 

Forexample I don't let my kids watch movies with violence. First they would wake me up every night because they have nightmares. But more importantly their little brains are like sponges. The same thing with offensive language. My husband sometimes shouts out : w..t...f. and he had to stop doing this because the little one was copying him.

 

It might seem a minor thing to other people, but I truly believe that all of this can make or break a child's personality.

 

And yes, some video games are actually good for helping in development. But not all videogames are created equal.

And sometimes kids don't have anyone supervising them, and coaching them.

 

See, to me it's not a minor thing, and I can't figure out how and why so many parents are so reckless in the way they raise their children. Not swearing next to them is a complete no brainer. Not letting them watch movies with extreme violence or sexual content until a certain age is a no brainer(the age can be debated - some would feel it's ok sooner than later). If parents can't coach or supervise their kids, it's not the kids' fault, it's not the games' fault, nor is it the movies' fault...it is the parents' fault. When my wife and I go places we find that most kids are just simply annoying - not because we hate kids, but because many parents these days don't do the job they should do in disciplining and educating their kids. There are some types of people who should simply never reproduce. At the end of the day it all comes down to poor choices, not games.

 

7 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   I'm with you on that one. Never once mistook what was happening in a video game for real life.  Occasionally get a warning from a game not to try this at home, but the thought never once crossed my mind to try it IRL. When I play a game, I know it's a game. If someone is at the point where they can't differentiate between a game and real life, there are bigger issues to resolve.

Exactly.

 

9 hours ago, IDWAF said:

But... did your parents raise you, or did the games/TV?

My parents raised me, which is pretty much my point. You can't blame the game. That said my wife had a completely different childhood and early adulthood than mine and she's still not going around killing people(you in our shop doesn't count )

Edited March 10, 2018 by OriZ

[bcking 3,157]

12 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

No, but they could still cause mass murder.  Guns simply make it easy for cowards to harm others.  I knife wielder might only kill 2-5 people instead of 15-20.

Seems like it would solve our mass murder problem though.

 

We don't have to speak hypothetically. I have no doubt there are people with murderous intent in countriee with very low gun ownership. As you said, you take away the murderous people's access to guns and they still have murderous intent...but I doubt you are going to find them killing 50-60 people in an attack. We see that in reality, since those attacks don't happen in those countries. They just happen here.

 

We wouldn't eliminate murder entirely. Yes they can still kill with a knife. But I'd take a murderous knife wielding maniac over a murderous gun wielding one any day.

 

Bed time for me though now. I work this weekend. Goodnight.

Edited March 10, 2018 by bcking

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

21 minutes ago, IDWAF said:

No, but they could still cause mass murder.  Guns simply make it easy for cowards to harm others.  I knife wielder might only kill 2-5 people instead of 15-20.

Sounds like an anti-nra argument 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

21 hours ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

Sounds like an anti-nra argument 

Doesn’t take away from the fact that some people will just have murderous intent in their heart.  Just as some people choose to drink, drive, and murder.  But the outrage has died away about the, with the advent of MADD and SADD.  Yet... it still continues.

 

2015 deaths:

 

Gun suicides        - 22,018

Falls                       - 33,381

Drug induced        - 55,403

Alcohol induced   - 33,171 

Abortions              - 652,639 (2014)

Septicemia            - 40,773

Diabetes Mellitus - 79,535

Gun homicides     - 12,979

Obesity                   - 7,430

 

I cannot seem to locate the CDCs comprehensive list all in one, but I suspect that gun deaths in the USA wouldn’t even make it into the top 50 causes, maybe lower.  Make what you will of the data above.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr66/nvsr66_06.pdf

Edited March 11, 2018 by IDWAF

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

1 hour ago, IDWAF said:

Doesn’t take away from the fact that some people will just have murderous intent in their heart.  Just as some people choose to drink, drive, and murder.  But the outrage has died away about the, with the advent of MADD and SADD.  Yet... it still continues.

 

2015 deaths:

 

Gun suicides        - 22,018

Falls                       - 33,381

Drug induced        - 55,403

Alcohol induced   - 33,171 

Abortions              - 652,639 (2014)

Septicemia            - 40,773

Diabetes Mellitus - 79,535

Gun homicides     - 12,979

Obesity                   - 7,430

 

I cannot seem to locate the CDCs comprehensive list all in one, but I suspect that gun deaths in the USA wouldn’t even make it into the top 50 causes, maybe lower.  Make what you will of the data above.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr66/nvsr66_06.pdf

You were talking about mass murder being caused by weapons. If the NRA comes up with a feasible plan to solve these other leading causes of death I will sign up.

 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

10 minutes ago, Il Mango Dulce said:

You were talking about mass murder being caused by weapons. If the NRA comes up with a feasible plan to solve these other leading causes of death I will sign up.

 

Well, if you wish to add that stat, we can.

 

2015 deaths:

 

Mass shootings - 462

Heroin                  - 13,000

 

 

 

 

[bcking 3,157]

1 hour ago, IDWAF said:

Doesn’t take away from the fact that some people will just have murderous intent in their heart.  Just as some people choose to drink, drive, and murder.  But the outrage has died away about the, with the advent of MADD and SADD.  Yet... it still continues.

 

2015 deaths:

 

Gun suicides        - 22,018

Falls                       - 33,381

Drug induced        - 55,403

Alcohol induced   - 33,171 

Abortions              - 652,639 (2014)

Septicemia            - 40,773

Diabetes Mellitus - 79,535

Gun homicides     - 12,979

Obesity                   - 7,430

 

I cannot seem to locate the CDCs comprehensive list all in one, but I suspect that gun deaths in the USA wouldn’t even make it into the top 50 causes, maybe lower.  Make what you will of the data above.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr66/nvsr66_06.pdf

Sorry but you can't accurately compare a lot of those.

 

Gun suicides and homicides are generally absolutes. Septicemia is fine. Probably falls as well. Alcohol and drug I would need to know more. I assume for alcohol that is more than just acute alcohol poisoning, in which case my next bit applies.

 

Many on those lists are ATTRIBUTABLE causes, and many times stats will make adjustments and try to estimate what percentage of the cause of death was due to a particular clinicial feature. No one really dies just of obesity. Alcohol induced liver failure can't be 100% attributed to alcohol.

 

Bottom line you just need a lot more information and nuance and you shouldn't just look at those numbers and directly compare them.

 

Edit:

 

You also need to be clear that not all of that data you provided was from your link. That study did not report abortions as a cause of mortality so you got that from somewhere else. That's fine, but just be more clear.

Edited March 11, 2018 by bcking

[bcking 3,157]

Also -

 

While the absolute numbers of gun deaths may not place it high on the list, the age adjusted rate rose by 7.5% (roughly) from 2014-2015.

 

That is a larger increase than everything in the top 10 list except for Alzheimer's disease. So the trend isn't great.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

36 minutes ago, bcking said:

Sorry but you can't accurately compare a lot of those.

 

Gun suicides and homicides are generally absolutes. Septicemia is fine. Probably falls as well. Alcohol and drug I would need to know more. I assume for alcohol that is more than just acute alcohol poisoning, in which case my next bit applies.

 

Many on those lists are ATTRIBUTABLE causes, and many times stats will make adjustments and try to estimate what percentage of the cause of death was due to a particular clinicial feature. No one really dies just of obesity. Alcohol induced liver failure can't be 100% attributed to alcohol.

 

Bottom line you just need a lot more information and nuance and you shouldn't just look at those numbers and directly compare them.

 

Edit:

 

You also need to be clear that not all of that data you provided was from your link. That study did not report abortions as a cause of mortality so you got that from somewhere else. That's fine, but just be more clear.

You can argue with the CDC stats if you want.  I find nothing online to be more accurate, personally.

 

And you’re right, the abortions were not in there.  Google helped me with that one.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

In 2016, MA had 242 firearm fatalities, including suicides. We had 2069 opiate related deaths. We have one of the lowest firearm fatality rates in the country and a few years the lowest. 

 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

8 minutes ago, spookyturtle said:

In 2016, MA had 242 firearm fatalities, including suicides. We had 2069 opiate related deaths. We have one of the lowest firearm fatality rates in the country and a few years the lowest. 

 

But gun deaths are more dramatic, and sell more headlines, unfortunately.   People are FAR more desensitized to drug deaths.

Edited March 11, 2018 by IDWAF