Obese patients and smokers banned from routine surgery in 'most severe ever' rationing in the NHS

[IAMX 3,055]

6 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

That was tongue in cheek. I am just hoping for a free sandwich 

Watch the salt on that. 

[smilesammich 10,727]

1 hour ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

That was tongue in cheek. I am just hoping for a free sandwich 

no freebies for bottom feeders or their associates.

 

eta: salt

Edited August 2, 2017 by smilesammich

[Boiler 47,154]

Perhaps a limit on the number of sandwiches you can eat a day?

 

[Ban Hammer 14,147]

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admin action has been taken against one member.
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charles

vj moderation

[Dashinka 25,638]

13 hours ago, Boiler said:

That is somewhat old

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

 

Quite why 20 years there were so many fatal injuries in the US is another question.

 

An interesting comparison is of course expenditure vs results.

I don't disagree with the age of the list.  My main point is that when life expectancy numbers are quoted as to the reason single payer healthcare systems are far superior to the disjointed system used in the US they generally use the overall numbers which include accidental deaths and murders.  The healthcare system in the US cannot impact those types of deaths, so it is disingenuous to include them when making a comparison.  

 

As as to why the US has higher rates of accidental deaths and homicides, I this that is a whole other discussion with many factors that do not include the prevailing healthcare system.

[OriZ 3,163]

4 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

I don't disagree with the age of the list.  My main point is that when life expectancy numbers are quoted as to the reason single payer healthcare systems are far superior to the disjointed system used in the US they generally use the overall numbers which include accidental deaths and murders.  The healthcare system in the US cannot impact those types of deaths, so it is disingenuous to include them when making a comparison.  

 

As as to why the US has higher rates of accidental deaths and homicides, I this that is a whole other discussion with many factors that do not include the prevailing healthcare system.

Buncha clutzes

 

Edited August 3, 2017 by OriZ

[Dashinka 25,638]

16 minutes ago, OriZ said:

Buncha clutzes

 

There does seem to be a lot more accidental deaths in the US.  Probably a lot of factors, but the biggest one is a lack of adhesive ducks in the shower.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Bill & Katya

[OriZ 3,163]

Typically, the more a developed country spends on health care, the longer its people live. The U.S., which spends the most on health care, bucks that trend. Compared to the 35 countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which promotes policies to improve social and economic well-being, the U.S. life expectancy of 78.8 years ranks 27th. It has the fourth highest infant mortality rate in the OECD, the sixth highest maternal mortality rate and the ninth highest likelihood of dying at a younger age from a host of ailments, including cardiovascular disease and cancer.

 

The U.S. is the most obese country in the OECD, leads in drug-related deaths and ranks 33rd in prevalence of diabetes.

 

One big reason U.S. health care costs are so high: pharmaceutical spending. The U.S. spends more per capita on prescription medicines and over-the-counter products than any other country in the OECD.

 

And there's a pretty cool interactive chart in the link: https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-health-care-spending/?cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_content=business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

[Dashinka 25,638]

4 hours ago, OriZ said:

Typically, the more a developed country spends on health care, the longer its people live. The U.S., which spends the most on health care, bucks that trend. Compared to the 35 countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which promotes policies to improve social and economic well-being, the U.S. life expectancy of 78.8 years ranks 27th. It has the fourth highest infant mortality rate in the OECD, the sixth highest maternal mortality rate and the ninth highest likelihood of dying at a younger age from a host of ailments, including cardiovascular disease and cancer.

 

The U.S. is the most obese country in the OECD, leads in drug-related deaths and ranks 33rd in prevalence of diabetes.

 

One big reason U.S. health care costs are so high: pharmaceutical spending. The U.S. spends more per capita on prescription medicines and over-the-counter products than any other country in the OECD.

 

And there's a pretty cool interactive chart in the link: https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-health-care-spending/?cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_content=business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

Do those numbers (overall life expectancy) include accidental deaths and homicides?  It appears they do include overdoses and suicides.  

[OriZ 3,163]

1 hour ago, Bill & Katya said:

Do those numbers (overall life expectancy) include accidental deaths and homicides?  It appears they do include overdoses and suicides.  

Well I don't think accidental deaths and homicides are very relevant when it comes to infant mortality and the 9th highest likelihood of dying at a younger age from a host of ailments like cardiovascular disease and cancer would also have nothing to do with accidents.

[Dashinka 25,638]

25 minutes ago, OriZ said:

Well I don't think accidental deaths and homicides are very relevant when it comes to infant mortality and the 9th highest likelihood of dying at a younger age from a host of ailments like cardiovascular disease and cancer would also have nothing to do with accidents.

They do factor into the overall life expectancy numbers.  As to infant mortality, I read a story from WebMD that showed the US has a higher rate of premature births than any other country, is this due to medical treatment, or life style?  As to younger deaths due to cardiovascular disease, cancer or diabetes, that may be more due to lifestyle than the countries medical system as well.

[Teddy B 17,252]

On 8/2/2017 at 0:44 PM, Bill & Katya said:

Car accidents and homicides don’t tell us much about health care quality

 

 

Another point worth making is that people die for other reasons than health. For example, people die because of car accidents and violent crime. A few years back, Robert Ohsfeldt of Texas A&M and John Schneider of the University of Iowa asked the obvious question: what happens if you remove deaths from fatal injuries from the life expectancy tables? Among the 29 members of the OECD, the U.S. vaults from 19th place to…you guessed it…first. Japan, on the same adjustment, drops from first to ninth.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/11/23/the-myth-of-americans-poor-life-expectancy/#5ba3bcb32b98

I bet if you removed death from the equation, life expectancy would go up a bit.

[Dashinka 25,638]

1 minute ago, Teddy B said:

I bet if you removed death from the equation, life expectancy would go up a bit.

I think you are missing the point.  Should the healthcare system be judged on deaths from a car accident (DASs) or homocides?  if we are going to use total life expectancy to compare healthcare systems in some sort of socialist narrative, then we need to dive into all the factors and not just use one overall number out of laziness.

[Teddy B 17,252]

27 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

I think you are missing the point.  Should the healthcare system be judged on deaths from a car accident (DASs) or homocides?  if we are going to use total life expectancy to compare healthcare systems in some sort of socialist narrative, then we need to dive into all the factors and not just use one overall number out of laziness.

Using total life expectancy to judge anything other than total life expectancy is a flawed system. There are simply too many variables to get any sort of an accurate outcome. You can't just remove accidental deaths and homicides from the equation without knowing if those people ever received medical care before they died. And even then you do not know the circumstance in which that medical care was applied. IE: How long did it take for an ambulance to arrive on scene? How long did it take to get that person to the hospital? Quality of life also comes into play with life expectancy.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Teddy B

[IAMX 3,055]

2 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

They do factor into the overall life expectancy numbers.  As to infant mortality, I read a story from WebMD that showed the US has a higher rate of premature births than any other country, is this due to medical treatment, or life style?  As to younger deaths due to cardiovascular disease, cancer or diabetes, that may be more due to lifestyle than the countries medical system as well.

Probably lifestyle. People hardly seem to understand the consequences of diet upon their own organs (especially essential ones like the liver and heart), never mind a fetus. Obesity and metabolic syndrome are umbrella diseases that are mostly caused not only by sedentary lifestyle but even more, horrific dietary choices, most of which includes excessive consumption of carbohydrates and calories. Damages the liver causing it to create excess fat from ingested carbs -> overloads hepatocytes and rest of body (where they end up) with converted fatty causing cellular/hepatocyte death (and scarring the liver evading its specific healing function for the body's, the latter of which eventually causes permanent destruction to the liver) -> damages metabolic functions of the liver and kidneys -> blocks portal vein pathway causing hypertensive reaction -> creates high blood pressure and increases odds of kidney failure.  

Edited August 4, 2017 by IAMX