Is there a requirement that the LPR and USC spouse have ever lived together?

[dimbmw 1]

I know that when filing N-400 based on a 3-yr marriage with the USC there is an explicit requirement that the LPR and the USC live in marital union (which presumabely means _together_) at the time of filing.

 

Now, how about the N-400 based on the the 5-year LPR status?

 

For the sake of a brutal example, what if the USC and an overseas alien got married, then he lived overseas until he gots interviewed at the consulate abroad, has been granted the packet, and entered US after the 2-year marriage anniversary, and therefore got a IR1 (10-year) green card. And let's say they divorce shortly after as the marriage haven't worked out well. So technically it means that they've never lived together for a long period of time, as he lived abroad while his case was pending, and once he entered US they've tried living together, didn't like it and got divorced. And as he got his unconditional greencard from the very beginning, he did not need to go through removal of conditions. So will this present any difficulty at N-400 interview?  This is not the real case, but I would like to understand the law about it.

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

[Ontarkie 14,942]

Sometimes they do look at the duration of marriage and what part of it they lived together. They may question but unless they see fraud it wont stop the process. 

[dimbmw 1]

29 minutes ago, Ontarkie said:

Sometimes they do look at the duration of marriage and what part of it they lived together. They may question but unless they see fraud it wont stop the process. 

 

 

So the question is - did they even have to live together at least for 1 day or there is no such requirement?

[Ontarkie 14,942]

I don't know, I guess only time will tell if we ever hear back from ppl who have done this.

 

We've had members who have divorced and been ask to provide details and proof they entered the marriage in good faith. They were surprised they had to do this. They also wanted above and beyond what was supplied at ROC. So anything is possible. 

Edited June 28, 2017 by Ontarkie

[dimbmw 1]

24 minutes ago, Ontarkie said:

I don't know, I guess only time will tell if we ever hear back from ppl who have done this.

 

We've had members who have divorced and been ask to provide details and proof they entered the marriage in good faith. They were surprised they had to do this. They also wanted above and beyond what was supplied at ROC. So anything is possible. 

 

 

I have to clarify, I am not that much interested in anyone's particular experience with the similar case (as any paricular experience depend on some interviewer), I am interested in what does the law say.

[Bugs 455]

Technically no.  But they may want proof you didn't fraud them on your intentions when obtaining a green card in the first place.  Misrepresentation carries a lifetime stigma with USCIS.  So evidence of a bona fide marriage may still be requested for that reason.

[dimbmw 1]

3 hours ago, Bugs said:

Technically no.  But they may want proof you didn't fraud them on your intentions when obtaining a green card in the first place.  Misrepresentation carries a lifetime stigma with USCIS.  So evidence of a bona fide marriage may still be requested for that reason.

 

Evidence of bona fide marriage is checked by the consulate abroad when they do the interview.

 

In any case, I am interested in the law about if the USC and LPR should ever have lived together, assuming that the marriage was bona fide.

[Bugs 455]

1 hour ago, dimbmw said:

 

Evidence of bona fide marriage is checked by the consulate abroad when they do the interview.

 

In any case, I am interested in the law about if the USC and LPR should ever have lived together, assuming that the marriage was bona fide.

Which I answered in the first sentence of my reply.

[dimbmw 1]

26 minutes ago, Bugs said:

Which I answered in the first sentence of my reply.

 OK, so if I got your answer right, you are saying that

 

1) no, there is no law exists that explicitly or implicitly requires that LPR and USC live together after LRP entered US in the IR1 category.

2) USCIS may want to re-assess if the marriage that caused the alien's LPR status, even though that has already been done by the US consulate abroad.

 

 

Actually 1) puzzles me, but it would be great to hear other opinions, if any.... Thanks!

 

[Bugs 455]

1 hour ago, dimbmw said:

 OK, so if I got your answer right, you are saying that

 

1) no, there is no law exists that explicitly or implicitly requires that LPR and USC live together after LRP entered US in the IR1 category.

2) USCIS may want to re-assess if the marriage that caused the alien's LPR status, even though that has already been done by the US consulate abroad.

 

 

Actually 1) puzzles me, but it would be great to hear other opinions, if any.... Thanks!

 

Correct on both.  

 

See here on the 5 years:

 

https://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-29/0-0-0-9898.html

 

And here on the 3 years exception:

 

https://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-29/0-0-0-9934.html

 

The first has no mention of marital union requirements.  Only the second does.

 

And, yes, even though the consulate officer deemed the marriage bona fide, such can be revisited at USCIS' discretion upon each and every application that changes immigration/legal resident status.  Every spouse who applies for removal of conditions on a green card, for instance, must resubmit evidence proving this.

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2017 by Bugs

[Bugs 455]

In short, they cannot deny your 5 year citizenship based on not living in marital union, but they can deny you if they later realize you misrepresented in order to get the green card in the first place.

[aayitrun 66]

20 hours ago, dimbmw said:

For the sake of a brutal example, what if the USC and an overseas alien got married, then he lived overseas until he gots interviewed at the consulate abroad, has been granted the packet, and entered US after the 2-year marriage anniversary, and therefore got a IR1 (10-year) green card. And let's say they divorce shortly after as the marriage haven't worked out well. So technically it means that they've never lived together for a long period of time, as he lived abroad while his case was pending, and once he entered US they've tried living together, didn't like it and got divorced. And as he got his unconditional greencard from the very beginning, he did not need to go through removal of conditions. So will this present any difficulty at N-400 interview?  This is not the real case, but I would like to understand the law about it.

 

 

in this hypothetical scenario, the LPR should just go for the 5 year n400 because happens, people get divorced and the 5 year n400 doesnt require marriage.

 

hopefully the initial marriage was still legit though.

[N-o-l-a 7,168]

19 hours ago, dimbmw said:

 

 

I have to clarify, I am not that much interested in anyone's particular experience with the similar case (as any paricular experience depend on some interviewer), I am interested in what does the law say.

 

The best person to ask about the law is a lawyer.  Taking legal advice from an anonymous diy forum doesn't seem like it will fit your needs.

[candybabe 46]

at the time of naturalization, the officer will have the entire file during the interview - from beginning to end - including the paperwork filed and approved abroad. in the N-400 you have to file all your addresses and dates of marriage and divorce. If the officer does not believe the green card was obtained through a bona fide marriage, your application for citizenship would be denied.

[dimbmw 1]

47 minutes ago, candybabe said:

at the time of naturalization, the officer will have the entire file during the interview - from beginning to end - including the paperwork filed and approved abroad. in the N-400 you have to file all your addresses and dates of marriage and divorce. If the officer does not believe the green card was obtained through a bona fide marriage, your application for citizenship would be denied.

 

 

If the IO "does not believe in bona fide marriage" , as you said, how can he just deny the application?I can believe that his personal impression should mean nothing other than that he will not approve the application on the spot. But deny? Really?! Just because he "does not believe"?  First of all, doesn't they have a burden of proof to PROVE that the marriage has been NOT bona fide? If so, USCIS are supposed to conduct a certain investigation and then take the case to the immigration court, as now it is only an immigration judge who can revoke the LPR status and deport the person, isn't he?

 

Further, taking this absurd situation to it's limit, how on earth USCIS can prove that the marriage was not bona fide, if there is absolutely no requirement to have any evidence that the couple ever lived together? The USC marries the alien, files for his GC, then he enters US in 2 years and becomes an IR1 LPR. The next day they divorce. How can USCIS prove that the marriage was not bona fide? These guys never had to live together and he has just arrived. In my opinion, unless one of them admits that the marriage was not bona fide, it is just impossible to prove otherwise. 

 

Correct me if I am wrong, maybe the burden of proof is not on USCIS ? Then it would have been a different story, but I still think the burden of proof should be on USCIS to take away someone's LPR status.

 

Just denying the N-400 application without attempting to revoke the LPR status and deport the person makes no sense either, right?

Edited June 29, 2017 by dimbmw