Baltimore mayor vetoes $15 minimum wage bill

[OriZ 3,165]

1 minute ago, yuna628 said:

Our fondest memory of Cheesecake Factory was taking the entire wedding party there. We rented a van for the week to give everyone a tour of the state. Our best man was sick the moment he got off the plane, cranky as hell, and kept refusing to go to the clinic (seriously had that feverish glazed over look). At the restaurant, everyone had a huge meal, but he insisted upon eating two of the giant milkshakes and a cheesecake! Everyone just stared at him at the table... man oh man he looked so green, but he was determined to finish all of it. We get back in the van in the parking lot leaving, and we hit a speed bump.... I think you can imagine who lost their lunch.  These days he says he doesn't remember much (he got the entire wedding party sick), except for how amazing the Cheesecake Factory food was... I said man, it didn't even stay in your stomach for that long!

 I knew where this was going even before the mention of the bump. Well if there's one thing to remember from that it should be the food. We are both picky eaters and have not found many things there that we didn't like. We also appreciate the consistency. There were places we used to like in WI that we hate here(olive garden being one of them). We loved maggiano's back in Wi as well, don't have one here, was excited to be back last year in Vegas...gross. I know they are all supposed to be the same all over the place, but oftentimes they are not. No matter the location, we have never been disappointed with Cheesecake factory as of yet. Man, we should both be getting paid for this, this whole thread is one big ad for them. 

[smilesammich 10,727]

5 minutes ago, OriZ said:

Well again I don't support the bailouts, never did never will. Also see my comment above and I have made comments in that spirit numerous times over the last couple of years - how savers are getting screwed. I'm not blaming them, I'm just saying it's part of the problem. The fact they are being pushed into risky assets is part of the problem. The whole QE and ZIRP thing I've discussed at length in the past(I believe those were deemed too lengthy by you so you skipped them). However, when people spend well beyond their means(and I'm talking well beyond their means...I'm not talking taking a little vacation once a year because you've worked your ### off and deserve to have some fun) like some people I know that load up on credit cards that is in huge part their fault as well. 

personal responsibility and high ideals don't go very far when the game is rigged.

[OriZ 3,165]

17 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

personal responsibility and high ideals don't go very far when the game is rigged.

Granted, it's a structural issue. Just because it's not the little guy's fault doesn't mean it's not an issue. Doesn't mean it's good for the economy. That was my whole point from the get go. I said the consumer spending culture, the fact that's such a huge part of the economy, is part of the problem, and it is, I stand behind that 100%. That's not me blaming consumers for not saving enough, I'm just laying it out there. Who is to blame is for another debate. I think everybody bears some responsibility for this.

 

Look at what our political system has devolved into: Constant drama to the point where either most people tune out completely because they can’t take it any longer or they get so enraged they just scream at each other. Substance on anything? Forget it. And if substance makes it to the surface it gets quickly drowned out by the next outrage bomb. If we talked substance we’d actually have to confront the structural problems the country is facing, and they are enormous. And that’s the purpose of the design: Distraction.

Folks have become so divergent in their political views that they can’t even agree on a common reality. And the internet in particular has become such a cesspool of hate that it will depress most thoughtful and reasonable people. Philosophy is dead, long live the circus barkers.

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

3 hours ago, yuna628 said:

1) In the tech industry having a degree is important, but I've noticed now a trend in certain tech jobs of just asking for certifications instead. People with degrees can do all the things in those expensive certifications and likely more... but the employer will want to not pick the person with the degree.. for less pay. Kid walked up to my husband the other day, and said he was getting a cyber security certification and wanted to know how he could get a job like him. So he asked - are you experienced in computer and printer repair? Do troubleshooting, PC building, virus removal, servers, or programming? The kid said no. Experience with Windows machines? Nope. Do you have any transferable skills at all?  What's that..? (....!!)

 

2) I reckon our town has about 10,000 people, I could literally walk down the street and be in the next town though which has about 2,000 people... and they still have chain restaurants aplenty. With the exception of the antique shops on main street and people getting shot these days, there's not a lot to do, so going out to eat is a staple in this area. I heard they might be trying to get an Outback, which my husband is super excited about.

I love food, people getting excited about restaraunt chains makes me sad.

[Dashinka 26,709]

8 hours ago, OriZ said:

Granted, it's a structural issue. Just because it's not the little guy's fault doesn't mean it's not an issue. Doesn't mean it's good for the economy. That was my whole point from the get go. I said the consumer spending culture, the fact that's such a huge part of the economy, is part of the problem, and it is, I stand behind that 100%. That's not me blaming consumers for not saving enough, I'm just laying it out there. Who is to blame is for another debate. I think everybody bears some responsibility for this.

 

Look at what our political system has devolved into: Constant drama to the point where either most people tune out completely because they can’t take it any longer or they get so enraged they just scream at each other. Substance on anything? Forget it. And if substance makes it to the surface it gets quickly drowned out by the next outrage bomb. If we talked substance we’d actually have to confront the structural problems the country is facing, and they are enormous. And that’s the purpose of the design: Distraction.

Folks have become so divergent in their political views that they can’t even agree on a common reality. And the internet in particular has become such a cesspool of hate that it will depress most thoughtful and reasonable people. Philosophy is dead, long live the circus barkers.

Spot on!

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

10 hours ago, OriZ said:

I just don't see how it's relevant to my comment though, I wasn't blaming poor people, to the contrary, I mentioned the negative effects it would have on poor non working people. I have also long had a not favorable stance towards banks. 

This is exactly my point. 

If we maintain that improving the quality of life for the working poor will actually harm other poor people, we support an old argument that pits poor against poor. As long as those groups are attacking each other,  the largest businessis and institutions will continue to consolidate their power and defacto  monopolies, 

 

The truth is, higher wages for the bottom rung will lower pressure for the need for taxpayer services, improve the  viability of that worker improving their skills to get tonthe next rung and help pull some workers out if a poverty spiral.

 

Will cost increase to the consumer? Yes but this costs get borne by all consumers in all economic walks of life.

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2017 by ccneat

[spookyturtle 9,466]

9 hours ago, OriZ said:

Granted, it's a structural issue. Just because it's not the little guy's fault doesn't mean it's not an issue. Doesn't mean it's good for the economy. That was my whole point from the get go. I said the consumer spending culture, the fact that's such a huge part of the economy, is part of the problem, and it is, I stand behind that 100%. That's not me blaming consumers for not saving enough, I'm just laying it out there. Who is to blame is for another debate. I think everybody bears some responsibility for this.

 

Look at what our political system has devolved into: Constant drama to the point where either most people tune out completely because they can’t take it any longer or they get so enraged they just scream at each other. Substance on anything? Forget it. And if substance makes it to the surface it gets quickly drowned out by the next outrage bomb. If we talked substance we’d actually have to confront the structural problems the country is facing, and they are enormous. And that’s the purpose of the design: Distraction.

Folks have become so divergent in their political views that they can’t even agree on a common reality. And the internet in particular has become such a cesspool of hate that it will depress most thoughtful and reasonable people. Philosophy is dead, long live the circus barkers.

 

This forum is a cesspool of hate and loaded with circus barkers. 

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

1 minute ago, spookyturtle said:

 

This forum is a cesspool of hate and loaded with circus barkers. 

And that is exactly why we  love it.

 

[OriZ 3,165]

56 minutes ago, spookyturtle said:

 

This forum is a cesspool of hate and loaded with circus barkers. 

Well this forum is part of the internet so yes plenty of examples around here.

[OriZ 3,165]

59 minutes ago, ccneat said:

This is exactly my point. 

If we maintain that improving the quality of life for the working poor will actually harm other poor people, we support an old argument that pits poor against poor. As long as those groups are attacking each other,  the largest businessis and institutions will continue to consolidate their power and defacto  monopolies, 

 

The truth is, higher wages for the bottom rung will lower pressure for the need for taxpayer services, improve the  viability of that worker improving their skills to get tonthe next rung and help pull some workers out if a poverty spiral.

 

Will cost increase to the consumer? Yes but this costs get borne by all consumers in all economic walks of life.

 

 

 

lol, someone making $15 an hour for flipping burgers will have no incentive to ever improve or do anything else. Why bother? They're getting paid plenty to do a job that doesn't take much. Well I guess that's one way to lower tuition costs though

[spookyturtle 9,466]

14 minutes ago, OriZ said:

lol, someone making $15 an hour for flipping burgers will have no incentive to ever improve or do anything else. Why bother? They're getting paid plenty to do a job that doesn't take much. Well I guess that's one way to lower tuition costs though

Maybe it's difficult to cook burgers on a large scale. It might be a high stress job. People yelling at you to hurry up, you're burning them, you put the wrong cheese on, you forgot the pickles, I said hold the ketchup. 

[OriZ 3,165]

10 minutes ago, spookyturtle said:

Maybe it's difficult to cook burgers on a large scale. It might be a high stress job. People yelling at you to hurry up, you're burning them, you put the wrong cheese on, you forgot the pickles, I said hold the ketchup. 

I have had at least two close members of the family work in those places, one actually worked at BK for years and made his way up to a manager. I know what goes on there. It's not a difficult job, sorry.

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

1 hour ago, OriZ said:

lol, someone making $15 an hour for flipping burgers will have no incentive to ever improve or do anything else. Why bother? They're getting paid plenty to do a job that doesn't take much. Well I guess that's one way to lower tuition costs though

Okay so now we have a different argument:

Flipping burgers is easy and does not take much. By giving me a living wage you have taken away any incentive I have left to take on harder jobs. This is a variation on tht argument that people are poor because they are lazy or they choose to be poor.

 

Here is the thing: Folks making 40 an hour Are not working 4x times as hard 4x as long.nor do they have 1/4 the conditions , 1/4 the opportunity to improve themselves.   So why the difference in wage? Skill,  training and opportunity.

 

I have seen folks working for minimum wage. These are hard jobs, dirty jobs, sometimes hard on your body or phsyce, They clean fish, change our grandparents diapers, teach  our disabled children mop our floors. And that is not counting the excluded groups picking  our crops and waiting tables.

 

So pointing out that some people may like this work or less responsibility does not  make the moral or economic case for paying them less. We should be happy those folks do our dirty work.

[Dakine10 5,452]

2 hours ago, OriZ said:

I have had at least two close members of the family work in those places, one actually worked at BK for years and made his way up to a manager. I know what goes on there. It's not a difficult job, sorry.

  At least. Maybe even more.

[OriZ 3,165]

7 minutes ago, Dakine10 said:

  At least. Maybe even more.

The two that I can think of right now...but there could have been more.