Baltimore mayor vetoes $15 minimum wage bill

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

Just now, Dakine10 said:

  The issue to me is, in the past minimum wage was not meant to be a living wage and employers didn't treat it that way. Minimum wage was for high school students and temporary jobs. The only job I ever had that started at minimum wage, I had two raises in the first 6 months. When I was younger, it was easy to find a job that paid more. If they wanted to keep people for any length of time, that's what they did.

 

  Nowadays, every employer wants to pay minimum wage to entry level workers. We're not just talking about McDonalds and were not just talking about high school students and were not talking about people only earning minimum wage for a few months anymore.

If we cannot agree that the minimum wage does not destroy opportunity, how can we get to a higher bar of a living wage discussion? 

[yuna628 9,995]

52 minutes ago, OriZ said:

BK, Panera and Olive Garden? Again, not in VT lol. We're lucky we even have an Olive Garden. I wish this state had a Cheesecake Factory though.Anytime my wife and I are in a different state with one that's one of our first places to stop for food. 

Well we live in a tiny town but there's still pretty much every type of restaurant available within driving distance. Except for seafood chains, which is okay because we have a ton of local places that offer the real proper good stuff. Cheesecake Factory is great, and is one the places we always take his parents to.

[smilesammich 10,727]

8 minutes ago, Dakine10 said:

  The issue to me is, in the past minimum wage was not meant to be a living wage and employers didn't treat it that way. Minimum wage was for high school students and temporary jobs. The only job I ever had that started at minimum wage, I had two raises in the first 6 months. When I was younger, it was easy to find a job that paid more. If they wanted to keep people for any length of time, that's what they did.

 

  Nowadays, every employer wants to pay minimum wage to entry level workers. We're not just talking about McDonalds and were not just talking about high school students and were not talking about people only earning minimum wage for a few months anymore.

this, coupled with many employers striving to keep full time positions at a minimum and instead have multiple part time positions and then simply factor in the cost of high turnaround..

[Umka36 781]

How does one determine what minimum wage should be , since we all know that cost of living is so drastic in different parts of the US. I cannot imagine one can survive at $15/hr. in places like San Francisco.

 

 

[Ban Hammer 15,200]

23 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

its like telling kids 'you can grow up to be whatever you want to be' and one kid saying 'i want to be a milk man' ...well kid, that job just ain't around anymore.

we don't have any dairy farmers?

[smilesammich 10,727]

1 minute ago, Ban Hammer said:

we don't have any dairy farmers?

there's a big ol dairy farm right down the road from my house. huge trucks going by everyday, carrying either milk or cow waste - depending upon the time of day. and yet they've never once offered to deliver any of their fine product (cow poop or otherwise) to my door directly? sure do wonder why that is.

[IAMX 3,055]

59 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

that's what i'm saying, people take the jobs that are available to them. if they're not qualified, the job isn't available to them. if there is a shortage of well paying skilled laborer positions, people will end up taking unskilled labor positions. like the whole coal jobs debate. 

its like telling kids 'you can grow up to be whatever you want to be' and one kid saying 'i want to be a milk man' ...well kid, that job just ain't around anymore.

There's no shortage of jobs in the US. There might be a shortage of workers (justifying H1-B's), but certainly not jobs. 

[smilesammich 10,727]

Just now, SRVT said:

There's no shortage of jobs in the US. There might be a shortage of workers (justifying H1-B's), but certainly not jobs. 

um, really? i've heard nothing but 'no jobs, thanks obama' and now with trump 'trump is finally bringing jobs back'

[IAMX 3,055]

50 minutes ago, ccneat said:

If we cannot agree that the minimum wage does not destroy opportunity, how can we get to a higher bar of a living wage discussion? 

You may not like reality, but the reality is that there are people perfectly satisfied with what they get in the sense that they're willing to put the minimal amount of effort and intellect into their labor value. There is no justification to give them more. They are satisfied with what they give, they need to be satisfied with the results. The logic you prescribe to is like the terrible education system giving A's to students putting out the minimal effort just because they may not want a D or F but you know what, let's give them a C, B, or A because everyone is equal, right? No. Everyone has the same rights, everyone has the same opportunity, but people's intellect and efforts, and value on the market are most certainly not the same.

[IAMX 3,055]

3 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

um, really? i've heard nothing but 'no jobs, thanks obama' and now with trump 'trump is finally bringing jobs back'

So you're saying you agree with Republicans? Boy this two-party game is fun -- not.

 

Anyways, the jobs Trump was talking about are unskilled middle class jobs.. factory type jobs -- production. Those were indeed shipped overseas, as I'm sure you well know, thanks to FTAs supported by globalist movements most Republican voters vehemently opposed. The very essence of this right wing populist movement is on the premise of bucking globalism and saving a country's sovereignty, something leftists used to support. 

Edited March 31, 2017 by SRVT

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

2 minutes ago, SRVT said:

You may not like reality, but the reality is that there are people perfectly satisfied with what they get in the sense that they're willing to put the minimal amount of effort and intellect into their labor value. There is no justification to give them more. They are satisfied with what they give, they need to be satisfied with the results. The logic you prescribe to is like the terrible education system giving A's to students putting out the minimal effort just because they may not want a D or F but you know what, let's give them a C, B, or A because everyone is equal, right? No. Everyone has the same rights, everyone has the same opportunity, but people's intellect and efforts, and value on the market are most certainly not the same.

You emphasize my point

[smilesammich 10,727]

6 minutes ago, SRVT said:

So you're saying you agree with Republicans? Boy this two-party game is fun -- not.

 

Anyways, the jobs Trump was talking about are unskilled middle class jobs.. factory type jobs -- production. Those were indeed shipped overseas, as I'm sure you well know, thanks to FTAs supported by globalist movements most Republican voters vehemently opposed. The very essence of this right wing populist movement is on the premise of bucking globalism and saving a country's sovereignty, something leftists used to support. 

no, i'm not saying trump is bringing the jobs back. you're the one saying there are plenty of jobs. 

 

and those jobs, in the factories near me anyway, employ temp workers from minimum wage paying staffing agencies. every once in a while, they will hire one on as a full time employee but this doesn't happen often in the entry level positions.

[smilesammich 10,727]

8 minutes ago, ccneat said:

You emphasize my point

indeed. 

 

*i'm out of ones

[IAMX 3,055]

2 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

no, i'm not saying trump is bringing the jobs back. you're the one saying there are plenty of jobs. 

 

and those jobs, in the factories near me anyway, employ temp workers from minimum wage paying staffing agencies. every once in a while, they will hire one on as a full time employee but this doesn't happen often in the entry level positions.

Mainly due to lack of competition. That's what happens when you empty out an industry. If there were more companies producing in the US there'd be a lot more of these jobs, a lot more competition, giving the worker an upper hand, and companies would find themselves with a labor force going elsewhere if they didn't adapt. This is why the more interference the government has on the free market with FTA's (government sponsored favoritism), the more damage it does. 

[smilesammich 10,727]

3 minutes ago, SRVT said:

Mainly due to lack of competition. That's what happens when you empty out an industry. If there were more companies producing in the US there'd be a lot more of these jobs, a lot more competition, giving the worker an upper hand, and companies would find themselves with a labor force going elsewhere if they didn't adapt. This is why the more interference the government has on the free market with FTA's (government sponsored favoritism), the more damage it does. 

there are still quite a few factories around these parts. when i was in highschool, lots of kids aspired to get on full time at one of these factories because you could make a decent wage starting out and there were benefits, retirement even. these jobs are still here, but mostly all staffed through outside agencies not paying anything (charging their customers 15 bucks an hour but paying their temps 10). the factories are still paying 15 bucks an hour for the employee, but that's not what the employee is getting. this has nothing to do with worker competition and everything to do with a company's bottom line.

if i own a factory and i don't want to have to maintain a large permanent payroll, dole out benefits, go through hiring process or basically have to be accountable to my help in any way i either hire illegals who will work for nothing, or if that's too risky, go through a temp agency. i don't understand why you think if there were even more entry level unskilled jobs that for some reason these employers will automatically want to pay their unskilled laborers even more? because suddenly there will be so many jobs that workers can set their own base salary/demand benefits? that's just not how it works, not in a 'right to work' state anyway.