Baltimore mayor vetoes $15 minimum wage bill

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Just now, ccneat said:

Are you going to need any ID for me to start?

Absolutely. And you have to submit to a rectal exam. 

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

Just now, spookyturtle said:

Absolutely. And you have to submit to a rectal exam. 

you never mentioned that you had a benefits package, sweet.

[Dakine10 5,452]

9 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Economic theory essentially says as costs go up business owners have limited options, eat the costs and reduce the profits, reduce costs by laying off workers, reduce costs by increasing technology, or raising prices.  All of them leave the business owner in a precarious situation as profit margins may not allow for eating the costs, laying off workers may reduce the quality of the service provided, they may not be able to afford the technology, or the market may not sustain price increases.  There are other factors of course, but many of the businesses that utilize low skilled workers making minimum wage may not be able to cope with the cost increases and then everyone loses.  Like I said in an earlier post, setting artificially high wage floors generally have a negative economic impact especially when they are regional which is why it was the right decision by the mayor to veto the measure even though it was a backtrack to a major campaign promise.

 

    Last time I read Adam Smith, I didn't see anything in there about incorporating in the Cayman islands to hide capital. Economic theory doesn't take the current level of corporate greed into consideration.

[smilesammich 10,727]

28 minutes ago, SRVT said:

Nononono. Austrian economics are nothing like Supply Side. Supply side economics are the view that tax cuts to the rich specifically creates the trickle down effect leading to investment and jobs.

 

Except that:

 

- The investment into labor and production tends to go out of the country (you lose the cycle this is supposed to create immediately)

- It lowers labor value by forcing Americans to compete with foreign workers who are paid pennies on the dollar in comparison (in cases like China this income depression is deliberately done by the government)

- Tariffs were always the norm before FTA's

- FTA's are government created economic favoritism (not capitalism)

- Federal governments constituents are Americans, not everyone else in the world

- Lowers exports, creating the excessive reliability on debt financed consumption, only helping the finance industry which always creates the export situation now where US #1 export is debt, not any tangible product

 

Trumps policy of bringing back jobs to the US:

- His target are those very production jobs lost

- If he could destroy NAFTA, CAFTA, etc. by himself he would, except it's passed by Congress

- Congress, especially the Senate, are full of globalist turds in the pocket of globalist corporations, regardless of party

- Realistically no useful overhaul or removal of these FTA's would happen under the current people in Congress

 

So all Trump can do is issue penalties and threats to companies who want to produce American goods elsewhere. It may not be much, but it's something. Moreover, it's more than Obama and Bush did, and would have been sure as hell a lot more than Hillary would have done. I think conservatives supporting the GOP should do well to remember that Bush very much supported further departures of American jobs elsewhere. But this also goes back to Bill Clinton as well. Clinton and partly Bush were the premise for Naomi Klein's book No Logo, which, while I think has a lot of anti-globalist overtones, was part of my Business thesis with marketing focus at SJSU. People thought George Bush was a conservative but he was extremely liberal about government.. he advocated for amnesty for all illegals, vouched for trade that wrecked labor value by not only overtly permitting illegals (despite deportations which were simply following the law) but his acts, like Obama, helped spur the massive influx of illegals.

 

Regarding the topic, tossing a minimum wage increase does absolutely nothing to fix problems that are far more underlying, they only exacerbate them for feel-good politics.

trump himself outsources, and his businesses will continue to do so. this idea that there are all these jobs to "come back" to america simply isn't reality. trump's 'policy' of bringing back jobs to the us is a bunch of hot air. i sincerely disagree that that minimum wage has no affect on anything but making politicians feel good. it's like when a poor person gets a 3000 tax refund, where does that money go? do they horde it or does it go right back into the economy? the same can't be said for employers. when they have a banner year, do they give bonuses to all their employees or tack another mill onto ceo pay?

Edited March 31, 2017 by smilesammich

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

Just now, smilesammich said:

trump himself outsources, and his business will continue to do so. this idea that there are all these jobs to "come back" to america simply isn't reality. trump's 'policy' of bringing back jobs to the us is a bunch of hot air. i sincerely disagree that that minimum wage has no affect on anything but making politicians feel good. it's like when a poor person gets a 3000 tax refund, where does that money go? do they horde it or does it go right back into the economy? the same can't be said for employers. when they have a banner year, do they give bonuses to all their employees or tack another mill onto ceo pay?

I wonder if all of those  H-2B workers at Mar A Lago ( the winter white house) have top level security clearance?

 http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/20/the-foreign-workers-of-mar-a-lago

 

THE FINANCIAL PAGE

 MARCH 20, 2017 ISSUE

THE FOREIGN WORKERS OF MAR-A-LAGO

The President has a dim view of extending visas to employees in the technology industry. But, when it comes to his club, it’s a different story.

 

 

[Dashinka 26,025]

5 minutes ago, Dakine10 said:

 

    Last time I read Adam Smith, I didn't see anything in there about incorporating in the Cayman islands to hide capital. Economic theory doesn't take the current level of corporate greed into consideration.

If corporations are greedy, then why would you expect them to absorb a minimin wage hike without doing something to maintain profits.  Also, as SRVT stated, the majority of these jobs are the result of small business owners, not big greedy corporations.  How do you deal with those entities.

[smilesammich 10,727]

1 minute ago, Bill & Katya said:

If corporations are greedy, then why would you expect them to absorb a minimin wage hike without doing something to maintain profits.  Also, as SRVT stated, the majority of these jobs are the result of small business owners, not big greedy corporations.  How do you deal with those entities.

why would you expect them to voluntarily pay their unskilled laborers more?

i work for a small business, single owner corporation, guess who he uses when extra labor is needed?

[Dashinka 26,025]

17 minutes ago, ccneat said:

As wages rise so does the spending power of the workers.  Raising the spending power of the lowest wage workers provides stimulus to the entire economy based on the assumption that the lowest wage workers do not invest or save but spend.  Whether they spend it on that big mac that they can now afford is another question.

This makes some pretty big assumptions that there will be no laid off employees making no money, and that the economy (prices) will remain relatively stagnant.

[smilesammich 10,727]

3 minutes ago, ccneat said:

I wonder if all of those  H-2B workers at Mar A Lago ( the winter white house) have top level security clearance?

 http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/20/the-foreign-workers-of-mar-a-lago

 

THE FINANCIAL PAGE

 MARCH 20, 2017 ISSUE

THE FOREIGN WORKERS OF MAR-A-LAGO

The President has a dim view of extending visas to employees in the technology industry. But, when it comes to his club, it’s a different story.

 

 

why are you deflecting? 

for anyone not drinking the trump kool aid, it's obvious trump is a typical trust fund baby..trust fund babys don't share and they don't care who deserves what. it's all theirs, fin.

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

1 minute ago, Bill & Katya said:

If corporations are greedy, then why would you expect them to absorb a minimin wage hike without doing something to maintain profits.  Also, as SRVT stated, the majority of these jobs are the result of small business owners, not big greedy corporations.  How do you deal with those entities.

"small business" is a wide category

 

https://www.sba.gov/contracting/getting-started-contractor/make-sure-you-meet-sba-size-standards/summary-size-standards-industry-sector

 

Top limits for retail for example

• About one-third of the retail trade industries – $7.5 million in average annual receipts.
• A few, such as grocery stores, department stores, motor vehicle dealers (except new car dealers) and electrical appliance dealers have a higher size standard, ranging from $11 million to $38.5 million in average annual receipts.
• New car dealers – 200 employees.
• Fuel dealers – 100 employees.

I think you are looking for something like  smaller < 50 employees or ultra small ( mom and pop) as a sub category for phasing in or protection

[Dashinka 26,025]

1 minute ago, smilesammich said:

why would you expect them to voluntarily pay their unskilled laborers more?

i work for a small business, single owner corporation, guess who he uses when extra labor is needed?

Of course there will be some that will not voluntarily pay more, but they still have to deal with market forces on the other side as well.

[Dakine10 5,452]

2 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

If corporations are greedy, then why would you expect them to absorb a minimin wage hike without doing something to maintain profits.  Also, as SRVT stated, the majority of these jobs are the result of small business owners, not big greedy corporations.  How do you deal with those entities.

 I don't, but I also don't expect economic laws as we know them to apply in the current environment. Unless you are referring to serfdom or something like that. Economic theory holds that if worker productivity and profit increase, wages rise correspondingly. It has been a long time since that was anything more than theory. 

[smilesammich 10,727]

Just now, Bill & Katya said:

Of course there will be some that will not voluntarily pay more, but they still have to deal with market forces on the other side as well.

market forces? what 'market force' does the individual entry level employee have? luck, basically.

[Amica Nostra 4,803]

3 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

This makes some pretty big assumptions that there will be no laid off employees making no money, and that the economy (prices) will remain relatively stagnant.

There would probably be layoffs in non essential sectors that could not compete( 1dollar burgers) , and increases in sectors that workers could now afford ( preventative healthcare),  but overall stimulus is stimulus.  You are right stimulus leads to potential inflation, just like tax breaks and interest rate drops.  Tax cuts are not helping the poor, they are paying less taxes. They are not getting the best interest rates either. 

 

 

 

[IAMX 3,055]

28 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

trump himself outsources, and his businesses will continue to do so. this idea that there are all these jobs to "come back" to america simply isn't reality. trump's 'policy' of bringing back jobs to the us is a bunch of hot air. i sincerely disagree that that minimum wage has no affect on anything but making politicians feel good. it's like when a poor person gets a 3000 tax refund, where does that money go? do they horde it or does it go right back into the economy? the same can't be said for employers. when they have a banner year, do they give bonuses to all their employees or tack another mill onto ceo pay?

Trump, as a businessman, is only doing what the law allows.

 

As for him and free trades.. I will reserve my opinion until I see some action on the free trades (or the end of his term(s)) as to whether or not Trump the politician is any different than his predecessors. 

Edited March 31, 2017 by SRVT