Australian school allows male Muslim pupils to refuse handshakes with women

[swstephe 13]

7 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

What if the rule was something like making students use the bathroom that conforms to one's biology rather than their preferred gender?  It applies here, as I don't think the Hadith recognizes gender identity, so if a genetic woman, preferred man walks into the same bathroom as this student, he would be violating his religion. 

I have a related funny story.  A film crew was making an episode of a local TV police drama.  One scene called for a party with both men and women.  The religious censors said they couldn't film men and women together who weren't married.  Someone I know, ran out and came back with half a dozen transgendered women.  They got to film the scene and it went out on national TV.  I suspect the religious censors realized that if they objected, it would be tantamount to an admission that there is a such thing as a transgendered woman and that they could potentially marry a man at that "party".  I've found a lot of strict rules end up stuck in a paradox like that.

 

It is a complex subject though.  Look up the term "mukhannath", which seems to justify gender identity, even in some very strict cultures.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Went to university with some orthodox Jewish guys who were given a special dispensation not to live on campus during the first two years (as was required by our school rules) because all our dorms were mixed by gender. Several of them also refused to shake hands with women or be seated near women in class. Nobody cared except for them. 

 

I would like to point out though that one of them had a definite shiksa fetish going on, and on Saturday nights he conveniently forgot about the no touching women rule. :-/

[Dashinka 25,895]

My only issue is with the news story itself.  If you don't want to shake hands with someone for whatever reason, then don't shake hands with them.  Was it a requirement that they must shake hands with women in the first place?  I assume not as this would violate many individuals religious freedom rights (not just Muslims as already stated), so why is this story even in the spotlight?

[Dakine10 5,452]

3 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

My only issue is with the news story itself.  If you don't want to shake hands with someone for whatever reason, then don't shake hands with them.  Was it a requirement that they must shake hands with women in the first place?  I assume not as this would violate many individuals religious freedom rights (not just Muslims as already stated), so why is this story even in the spotlight?

   Good question.

 

   Slow news day?

[Dakine10 5,452]

  Or perhaps ,as has come up in the past, the anti-Islam business can be very lucrative. There's a lot of money out there trying to find a needle in a haystack. Or if they can't find one, making one up.

Edited February 22, 2017 by Dakine10

[Teddy B 17,252]

9 hours ago, elmcitymaven said:

Went to university with some orthodox Jewish guys who were given a special dispensation not to live on campus during the first two years (as was required by our school rules) because all our dorms were mixed by gender. Several of them also refused to shake hands with women or be seated near women in class. Nobody cared except for them. 

 

I would like to point out though that one of them had a definite shiksa fetish going on, and on Saturday nights he conveniently forgot about the no touching women rule. :-/

If you've got the Shiksa, I've got the Kavorka.

 

[yuna628 9,874]

3 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

My only issue is with the news story itself.  If you don't want to shake hands with someone for whatever reason, then don't shake hands with them.  Was it a requirement that they must shake hands with women in the first place?  I assume not as this would violate many individuals religious freedom rights (not just Muslims as already stated), so why is this story even in the spotlight?

Why indeed? I was trying to get to the bottom of that with the OP... but as to why it's being printed in the press is an easier determination. You'll find all sorts of little stories like this. Most commonly found in the Daily Fail, but the Indie does a job of it regarding that from time to time. It's almost as if the UK publications like the Indie seem blind in acknowledgment that there are strong orthodox communities of both Muslims and Jews in the UK (UK has one of the largest population of orthodox Jews in one city in the whole of the EU alone) and that this is not so unusual. If a Jew or Muslim doesn't want to touch a hand I understand why the religion they practice doesn't allow them to. It doesn't offend me, and shouldn't offend anyone that believes in freedom of religion. Everything is shocking to a sensationalist press.

 

As for shaking hands a requirement? Yes, the article states this was regarding Presentation Day, or i.e. graduating. The typical process is to approach the person handing out the diploma and shake their hand. Thus they announced that some students would be allowed to forego that formality. Why is it a big deal and we're even discussing it, well only the OP knows. Personally, at least four generations of my family grew up in communities in which those who practiced some form of orthodoxy was in the majority. Helping out your neighbors and a local rabbi on the Sabbath, and understanding and respecting their religious traditions (even those regarding dressing modestly, shaking hands, or sitting next to) were common. No one was offended or screamed at people to compromise their faith because someone's feelings got butthurt about hand touching.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

6 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Why indeed? I was trying to get to the bottom of that with the OP... but as to why it's being printed in the press is an easier determination. You'll find all sorts of little stories like this. Most commonly found in the Daily Fail, but the Indie does a job of it regarding that from time to time. It's almost as if the UK publications like the Indie seem blind in acknowledgment that there are strong orthodox communities of both Muslims and Jews in the UK (UK has one of the largest population of orthodox Jews in one city in the whole of the EU alone) and that this is not so unusual. If a Jew or Muslim doesn't want to touch a hand I understand why the religion they practice doesn't allow them to. It doesn't offend me, and shouldn't offend anyone that believes in freedom of religion. Everything is shocking to a sensationalist press.

 

As for shaking hands a requirement? Yes, the article states this was regarding Presentation Day, or i.e. graduating. The typical process is to approach the person handing out the diploma and shake their hand. Thus they announced that some students would be allowed to forego that formality. Why is it a big deal and we're even discussing it, well only the OP knows. Personally, at least four generations of my family grew up in communities in which those who practiced some form of orthodoxy was in the majority. Helping out your neighbors and a local rabbi on the Sabbath, and understanding and respecting their religious traditions (even those regarding dressing modestly, shaking hands, or sitting next to) were common. No one was offended or screamed at people to compromise their faith because someone's feelings got butthurt about hand touching.

It should be obvious.

Edited February 22, 2017 by spookyturtle

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

3 hours ago, Dakine10 said:

  Or perhaps ,as has come up in the past, the anti-Islam business can be very lucrative. There's a lot of money out there trying to find a needle in a haystack. Or if they can't find one, making one up.

Finding troubling disturbing information about radical Islam hardly takes needle in a haystack effort 

[yuna628 9,874]

19 minutes ago, spookyturtle said:

It should be obvious.

It was obvious, but at least I tried to give the OP an opportunity to come clean. 

[bcking 3,157]

7 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Finding troubling disturbing information about radical Islam hardly takes needle in a haystack effort 

That's true about pretty much any religious group I know of. 

[yuna628 9,874]

7 minutes ago, bcking said:

That's true about pretty much any religious group I know of. 

Apparently to some, not shaking hands is radical and disturbing. A 'safe space' for those who feel this way may be in order where everything is 'hands on' and 'all over' all the time!

Edited February 22, 2017 by yuna628

[spookyturtle 9,466]

29 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Finding troubling disturbing information about radical Islam hardly takes needle in a haystack effort 

While that is true, it's not the case for the topic being discussed. 

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

1 hour ago, spookyturtle said:

While that is true, it's not the case for the topic being discussed. 

What, you mean, Muslimy Muslims are Muslim-ing?

[spookyturtle 9,466]

1 hour ago, elmcitymaven said:

What, you mean, Muslimy Muslims are Muslim-ing?

 

Yes. I think.