THIS is how you reform immigration

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

http://news.yahoo.com/7-eleven-cracks-down-franchisees-federal-authorities-seize-012317502.html

NONE of the proposed immigration changes are needed and neither is any further border protection. It is all smoke and mirrors to conscript new Democrat voters and slaves for Republicans business owners to profit from.

CLOSE DOWN the business of ANY employer that exploits illegals and the entore roblem will vanish, the people held for exploitation will self deport back to where they can live a decent life in a decent job.

Do it early. Do it often. Shut them down, padlock the door. It is not necessary to deport 11 million illegal aliens, it is only necessary to lock out a few hundred businesses. Americans, or even LEGAL immigrants (I am always amused that only illegal Mexicans will do these jobs...not LEGAL Mexicans) WILL do these jobs when they are paid properly and receive benefits and good working conditions. YES it will cost employers more.

These people are not hired because they are the best roofers, landscapers and barn cleaners in the world, they are not hired because their legal countrymen will not do the same work, they are hired because they are exploited to avoid costs and increase profits to "the 1%"

"legalizing" 11 million of them will simply raise the cost of employing them without offering the employer any further skills or abilities in return. Suddenly the cost of that illegal employee doubles or triples when he becomes legal. Right. He gets laid off, and the employer hires another illegal to take his place for the lower cost.

"they are only doing the work Americans won't do" is the biggest crock of sh*t ever cooked up. They are doing the work for less than minimum wage, no benefits, no protections, no workman's comp, no unemployment insurance. Americans and legal immigrants will gladly do this work for proper pay and benefits

[Bugs 455]

Illegal immigrants are not a burden on the economy. Only a burden on tax dollars. Making them legal will solve the latter. Your solution will likely hurt the economy more than assist it.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Illegal immigrants are not a burden on the economy. Only a burden on tax dollars. Making them legal will solve the latter. Your solution will likely hurt the economy more than assist it.

How would it hurt the economy? Precisely how?

[Bugs 455]

How would it hurt the economy? Precisely how?

If you force a consumer base of 11 million people out of the country, how could it not? And if all the compaines that hire these workers see their workforce leave, how would it not? You say that Americans all want these jobs, which I find hard to believe (or we wouldn't see such an inflix of HB-1 workers, as compaines are required to offer those jobs to Americans first), but even if that is the case, then their higher salaries will result in higher prices for the consumer, so how could it not?

It's a worldwide economy my friend. I'm not saying that your solution is a bad one, just that it would hurt the economy in ways that you probably wouldn't have imagined. I'm not particularly supportive of that kind of damage and really don't mind seeing all these people around, so why not legalize them and have them contribute to the tax base?

Edited June 22, 2013 by Leon & Mylen

[Boiler 45,693]

Bring back slavery, then the US Economy would really boom.

Until that we need illegals.

Americans are too lazy and want to be paid too much money for no effort.

[Eric-Pris 1,607]

Americans are too lazy and want to be paid too much money for no effort.

+1

The idea that closing businesses that "exploit" illegals would solve the immigration problem is ridiculous. First of all, most illegals would not return to where they came from, even if they were forced to beg for money or steal. Even a crappy life in the US may be better than they had back home.

BTW-I think you meant "employ", not exploit. Nobody is exploiting anybody. These workers are working on their own free will, nobody is forcing them. Just because you wouldn't work for a certain wage or under certain conditions doesn't equate to exploitation. In the US, we have become a bunch of bleeding hearts worrying about others being exploited, even though they aren't complaining.

Exactly who would be responsible for closing down all these businesses? It's not hundreds, it's many thousands across the US. And if you happened to close down all the businesses, I wonder who would do the work that illegals now do. Americans? I'm sure they would at $20/hr with full benefits and 4 weeks paid vacation, maybe. Guess who would end up paying for it, the consumer.

I sometimes wonder whether people just read something and they accept it without actually thinking about it. I've done it myself a time or two, but it's always good to think about it before you start telling people about it.

Edited June 22, 2013 by Eric-Pris

[stevie b 141]

http://news.yahoo.com/7-eleven-cracks-down-franchisees-federal-authorities-seize-012317502.html

NONE of the proposed immigration changes are needed and neither is any further border protection. It is all smoke and mirrors to conscript new Democrat voters and slaves for Republicans business owners to profit from.

CLOSE DOWN the business of ANY employer that exploits illegals and the entore roblem will vanish, the people held for exploitation will self deport back to where they can live a decent life in a decent job.

Do it early. Do it often. Shut them down, padlock the door. It is not necessary to deport 11 million illegal aliens, it is only necessary to lock out a few hundred businesses. Americans, or even LEGAL immigrants (I am always amused that only illegal Mexicans will do these jobs...not LEGAL Mexicans) WILL do these jobs when they are paid properly and receive benefits and good working conditions. YES it will cost employers more.

These people are not hired because they are the best roofers, landscapers and barn cleaners in the world, they are not hired because their legal countrymen will not do the same work, they are hired because they are exploited to avoid costs and increase profits to "the 1%"

"legalizing" 11 million of them will simply raise the cost of employing them without offering the employer any further skills or abilities in return. Suddenly the cost of that illegal employee doubles or triples when he becomes legal. Right. He gets laid off, and the employer hires another illegal to take his place for the lower cost.

"they are only doing the work Americans won't do" is the biggest crock of sh*t ever cooked up. They are doing the work for less than minimum wage, no benefits, no protections, no workman's comp, no unemployment insurance. Americans and legal immigrants will gladly do this work for proper pay and benefits

the legalization of immigrants you are referring to has to do with illegals who were brought here before they had the ability to make those choices themselves.. ie.. as children

the massive amount of illegal immigrants that are here by sneaking through the fence and such, I do agree need to go back

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Borders are just arbitrary lines drawn on the surface of the planet. All other life forms on this planet don't recognize those lines, neither should humans.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

BTW-I think you meant "employ", not exploit. Nobody is exploiting anybody. These workers are working on their own free will, nobody is forcing them. Just because you wouldn't work for a certain wage or under certain conditions doesn't equate to exploitation. In the US, we have become a bunch of bleeding hearts worrying about others being exploited, even though they aren't complaining.

I see. So because these folks worked at their own free will - which they arguably did - you wouldn't say they are exploited?

How about these ex workers? Any chance they were exploited and paid with their lives for that exploitation?

Exactly who would be responsible for closing down all these businesses? It's not hundreds, it's many thousands across the US. And if you happened to close down all the businesses, I wonder who would do the work that illegals now do. Americans? I'm sure they would at $20/hr with full benefits and 4 weeks paid vacation, maybe. Guess who would end up paying for it, the consumer.

You don't have to close thousands of businesses. You close a few and the others will get the message. The risk merely needs to outweigh the reward. It's bean-counting. That's all it is. And thus far, Americans or lawful residents have kept any factory or business that was raided by ICE afloat. There were lines out the door at meat packaging plants and other businesses that all of a sudden did not have any illegal labor available. Americans in line to do work that Americans allegedly don't want to do. Businesses would have to pay market prices for American labor. I don't see a problem with that.

[RGinWA 816]

Borders are just arbitrary lines drawn on the surface of the planet. All other life forms on this planet don't recognize those lines, neither should humans.

And being born 100 yards on either side of that imaginary line determines your future.

Humans like claiming a piece of land, its an ingrained reaction that doesn't seem to go away.

[Pooky 3,809]

Businesses would have to pay market prices for American labor. I don't see a problem with that.

The corollary is that the American consumer would be faced with a market rate for goods and services that reflects this.

Would you be as accepting of higher prices as a result of the policy you advocate?

I would.

[RGinWA 816]

The corollary is that the American consumer would be faced with a market rate for goods and services that reflects this.

Would you be as accepting of higher prices as a result of the policy you advocate?

I would.

Exactly. We've become the country that disregards ethics and focuses on cost.

Funny thing about the economy is that someone always finds a way to do the right thing and make profit, just not obscene profits.

We've lost sight of our humanity on many levels.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The corollary is that the American consumer would be faced with a market rate for goods and services that reflects this.

Would you be as accepting of higher prices as a result of the policy you advocate?

I would.

Absolutely. In many ways I do that already frequenting businesses that are known to treat their staff fairly while avoiding those that are know not to do so.

[Karee 4,190]

If you force a consumer base of 11 million people out of the country, how could it not? And if all the compaines that hire these workers see their workforce leave, how would it not? You say that Americans all want these jobs, which I find hard to believe (or we wouldn't see such an inflix of HB-1 workers, as compaines are required to offer those jobs to Americans first), but even if that is the case, then their higher salaries will result in higher prices for the consumer, so how could it not?

It's a worldwide economy my friend. I'm not saying that your solution is a bad one, just that it would hurt the economy in ways that you probably wouldn't have imagined. I'm not particularly supportive of that kind of damage and really don't mind seeing all these people around, so why not legalize them and have them contribute to the tax base?

I think you mean H1-B. I'm very familiar with the H1-B program. It's a scam. It's a way for large companies to exploit foreign workers and pay them peanuts. All the while doing it on U.S. soil. Did you know it's next to impossible to change jobs from one company to another while on an H1-B? These H1-B workers in most cases work for large consulting firms that then hire them out to tech companies. You don't want to work 12 hours and get paid for 8? No problem, you're fired. As far as offering the jobs to American workers first, that's simply a joke. The corporations pay these "employment" then the agencies pay the workers. After they take their cut of course. So take a company like TATA consulting. They sponsor an H1B worker form India. That worker comes to the U.S. via H1-B. TATA has a job waiting for them at ABC tech company as a software developer. TATA collects $75 an hour from ABC and pays the worker $35 an hour with no benefits. You want to complain? Or try switching jobs? Tough $hit. Your visa is tied to TATA. No job with TATA, no H1-B.

I've worked with lots of H1-B visa holders. In fact the team I was a part of from 2008-2010 was entirely H1-B except for myself. Keep in mind the massive unemployment during this time.

[Bugs 455]

Either way, it is inevitable. You cannot artificially force companies to hire only certain people at a set wage. That's not how capitalism works, or else it isn't capitalism. If you remove the illegal workforce or do away with the H1-B system, then these companies will simply move overseas so they can keep the labor pay the same. Which they have done. There really isn't a solution here other than to just end restrictions on artificial borders and allow what is already occurring to occur. At least, like I say, legalizing the residents will get them paying into the tax system like everyone else and give them rights. Other than that, the economy is going to remain as is, whether we like it or not. America is no longer the gated community that it once was when the world's economy wasn't as connected or so one sided in favor of U.S. manufacturing. Those days are long gone and simply will not return. We can either accept that with dignity or go down swinging.

Edited June 22, 2013 by Leon & Mylen