What constitutes 'preconceived intent" to marry?

[jaycali 415]

There is [risk] to AOSing from the VWP

I forgot to include that word in my above post.

Edited December 1, 2012 by Jay Jay

[MrsB2012 10]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm getting married on Monday, thus refer to him as my husband, as I stated in another response...it's been easier than saying fiance/soon-to-be-husband. And we met in Portugal in early July, and fell for each other soon thereafter, so it's been longer than 2 months! I've never been more sure about anything in my life--he is the ONE for me. Adjustment of status seems scary to me, since you have to do a medical exam which could take a lot of time (his time is up on Jan.2), coupled with having to prove that there was no intent to immigrate, which there wasn't...but I get nervous and could trip up or stutter, and they could deny him based on me not keeping cool or something it seems. SOme people say that if you overstay, he'd be barred for 10+years! We also don't have possession of his birth certificate...it's in Portugal, and is in Portuguese...would that need officially translated? If we sent in the AOS in 2 weeks, would that be still enough time to get the process started? It's so stressful that we're almost ready to just split, file the CR-I, and potentially be apart for way longer than we want to be...making planning our catholic wedding nearly impossible...and to anyone who's responded to me with advice, I really appreciate it.

I understand your anxiety because two months ago I was a basket case over this whole thing too. With that being said, take a deep breath and calm down. First of all, as someone else mentioned, he will need a physical regardless if you AOS here or if he applies for a CR1. The physical takes no time at all, but he will most likely need a TB test and you have to wait and go back two days later for the results. Go onto the USCIS website and look up the list they provide that has approved Civil Surgeons. You do not have to file AOS while he's still in status, although I've read that people recommend doing so. We submitted our AOS packet about a week after my husband's stay expired under VWP and ICE hasn't come knocking on our door to deport him.

You will need a copy of his birth certificate to submit with the AOS package and an official copy for the interview. As far as having it translated, that's not a big deal at all.

Keep in mind that your husband will not be allowed to leave the country once you file for AOS until he receives Advanced Parole, which you apply for along with the AOS.

I think this is entirely a personal decision and what makes the most sense for both of you. For us, it was a simple decision.

Just a quick story to give you some reassurance- My brother's sister in law also married a guy from Denmark. They had every intention for him to fly here, get married and adjust status. He came here under VWP on a ONE WAY ticket (huge red flag) along with 3 HUGE suitcases and TONS of cash. He was taken into secondary inspection when he arrived at LAX. CBP officers grilled him for 3 hours and at the end, let him into the country. They got married 1 week later in Vegas, filed AOS a month later and 4 months later he had his GC in hand. They were never even asked about the stint at POE during their interview nor were they asked about his intentions when he entered the country. All the officer cared about was that they had a legitimate marriage and provided all the correct documentation.

Like I said earlier, this is a stressful process and I know for my husband not working during this period has been particularly tough. It's not going to be all sunshine and roses, regardless which route you take, but personally I would choose the AOS within the US route.

[N-o-l-a 7,167]

Just a quick story to give you some reassurance- My brother's sister in law also married a guy from Denmark. They had every intention for him to fly here, get married and adjust status. He came here under VWP on a ONE WAY ticket (huge red flag) along with 3 HUGE suitcases and TONS of cash. He was taken into secondary inspection when he arrived at LAX. CBP officers grilled him for 3 hours and at the end, let him into the country. They got married 1 week later in Vegas, filed AOS a month later and 4 months later he had his GC in hand. They were never even asked about the stint at POE during their interview nor were they asked about his intentions when he entered the country. All the officer cared about was that they had a legitimate marriage and provided all the correct documentation.

So, they committed immigration fraud?

That is really magical. Good for them they got away with it... Do you know how many of the rest of us would dream to have it so easy?

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Regarding overstays and bans... Any ban is triggered on exit. Once you get a Greencard, the overstay is irrelevant and no ban will be triggered. So, if you commit to AOS, any overstay will not be a problem. A few days especially, wouldn't even prevent him from using Advance Parole (though too much overstay will result in a ban on exit if all you have is Advance Parole).

Furthermore, once the AOS package is accepted for initial review, the overstay clock stops and he will being a new period of authorized stay.

If you go for CR-1 and he comes to visit, then he cannot overstay, and must abide by the rules of his Visa Waiver Program to a T. Being married by itself does not give him special permission to abuse his status, and can cause problems with the CR-1 visa, because that visa is granted abroad, and to get it, one must leave (which is when bans are triggered).

Really, you should decide to stay now or to leave now and come back... Then get into the details. Right now, both options are open to you.

[JoannaV 173]

If the only available copy of his birth certificate is locked away in a box only he can access, then he should return to Portugal and apply for CR-1. Otherwise though, I'd say go for AOS. Just get the medical scheduled at your earliest possible convenience. You've got plenty of time :-)

Personally I did CR-1, with the majority of the waiting time in the US. I appreciated being able to pack up my belongings back home, and spend some time with family and friends.

[samy + janet aly 8]

Dont forget...on the I-130 it asks if the applicant is here or abroad.

[Jahwaree 83]

I'd say get marry, then let him go home file I 130 before he goes so the porcess get started

would have been nice to keep visiting each other until summer, but I see your mind is made up

best wishes

[MrsB2012 10]

So, they committed immigration fraud?

That is really magical. Good for them they got away with it... Do you know how many of the rest of us would dream to have it so easy?

I never said I agreed with it, I was just sharing an experience of someone I know. I also would never advise anyone to do what they did. They got lucky and I'm empathetic to every single person that has to go about this the right way & suffer through the long, bureaucratic process.

[Moomin 292]

So, they committed immigration fraud?

That is really magical. Good for them they got away with it... Do you know how many of the rest of us would dream to have it so easy?

Nola - a friend of mine did the same thing except they're no way near submitting AOS The issue is that some lawyers simply suggest using ties to home country as a way to enter the country. While the ties might exist when entering, it's a grey area. You can have a lease/contract in Denmark but right after you enter the US, send a letter to landlord saying you're moving out and they can take the 3 months deposit to pay the last 90 days rent with. Which is somewhat along the lines of what my friend was advised to do if he had " a change of heart" after entering the US. Unfortunately, because it makes it harder for others to have their ties to home country seen ad genuine ties of actually returning. I won't sit here and mention the other things that were suggested. I'm just saying that attourneys - even some CBP officers and USCIS CSRs - may be the source of wrong information and bad advise. And once people have gotten into their minds that they don't need to be seperated through the process, I'm guessing very few will actually jump onbaord the "waiting apart in different countries" train.

[ndu26 114]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm getting married on Monday, thus refer to him as my husband, as I stated in another response...it's been easier than saying fiance/soon-to-be-husband. And we met in Portugal in early July, and fell for each other soon thereafter, so it's been longer than 2 months! I've never been more sure about anything in my life--he is the ONE for me. Adjustment of status seems scary to me, since you have to do a medical exam which could take a lot of time (his time is up on Jan.2), coupled with having to prove that there was no intent to immigrate, which there wasn't...but I get nervous and could trip up or stutter, and they could deny him based on me not keeping cool or something it seems. SOme people say that if you overstay, he'd be barred for 10+years! We also don't have possession of his birth certificate...it's in Portugal, and is in Portuguese...would that need officially translated? If we sent in the AOS in 2 weeks, would that be still enough time to get the process started? It's so stressful that we're almost ready to just split, file the CR-I, and potentially be apart for way longer than we want to be...making planning our catholic wedding nearly impossible...and to anyone who's responded to me with advice, I really appreciate it.

While I agree that we should NOT go into marriage without fully having our eyes and head open( cos our hearts could be funny sometimes), we should not miss out on a blessing because of fear of the unknown either. If you are sure this is it, then go for it. I was introduced to my husband in December last year, I visited him in Nigeria in february for two weeks and knew immediately he is for me. I came back and we continued to talk. I kept praying that the big question will be popped LOL. Well he did and the only reason we waited till Sept to get married was cos we wanted to do it on his birthday( as it was the option that gave us more time to plan the wedding). Till this day I have never regretted that decision and keep wondering how God blessed us with each other. His personality complements mine so well. So I pray it works out for you.

[N-o-l-a 7,167]

Nola - a friend of mine did the same thing except they're no way near submitting AOS The issue is that some lawyers simply suggest using ties to home country as a way to enter the country. While the ties might exist when entering, it's a grey area. You can have a lease/contract in Denmark but right after you enter the US, send a letter to landlord saying you're moving out and they can take the 3 months deposit to pay the last 90 days rent with. Which is somewhat along the lines of what my friend was advised to do if he had " a change of heart" after entering the US. Unfortunately, because it makes it harder for others to have their ties to home country seen ad genuine ties of actually returning. I won't sit here and mention the other things that were suggested. I'm just saying that attourneys - even some CBP officers and USCIS CSRs - may be the source of wrong information and bad advise. And once people have gotten into their minds that they don't need to be seperated through the process, I'm guessing very few will actually jump onbaord the "waiting apart in different countries" train.

It is a rather sensitive issue for me because there are members of my family who'd normally be from VWP countries that are unable to enter the US because they have been believed to have the possibility of overstaying or doing AOS. It really does ruin VWP for some people when other people knowingly abuse it.

I understand why people don't want to be apart because we've been in their shoes, obviously. However, we wanted to wait a little while and be sure that we wanted to be married. In our eyes, it is a forever thing and when we got married in Denmark it wasn't for immigration purposes because he can't sponsor me for a family visa here anyways any time in the next 2 years. It was nice that there wasn't that pressure and we had to really think about if it was something we wanted.

I think for someone really intending on using VWP for tourist and visiting purposes it is going to be really hard to just AOS. We couldn't have done it last time my husband was in America - he had an apartment full of stuff, important personal paperwork, a family who absolutely adores him, and a job he had to return to. We did consider getting married but he still would have had to go back to finalize things. It took months for me to prepare to move to Denmark. Heck, his family really needs these next 6 months to say goodbye. They are beyond distraught.

That is what I meant by proper and right way to do things - people who honestly in America planning on going home before 90 days more than likely need to go back to clean out their housing, gather their important items, give notice at a job, have quality time with their families, etc. Yes, you do have to be apart for a couple of months (oh the horror) but it is doable, we were apart the whole time my dad was dying of cancer and we made it through that.

[Moomin 292]

It is a rather sensitive issue for me because there are members of my family who'd normally be from VWP countries that are unable to enter the US because they have been believed to have the possibility of overstaying or doing AOS. It really does ruin VWP for some people when other people knowingly abuse it.

I understand why people don't want to be apart because we've been in their shoes, obviously. However, we wanted to wait a little while and be sure that we wanted to be married. In our eyes, it is a forever thing and when we got married in Denmark it wasn't for immigration purposes because he can't sponsor me for a family visa here anyways any time in the next 2 years. It was nice that there wasn't that pressure and we had to really think about if it was something we wanted.

I think for someone really intending on using VWP for tourist and visiting purposes it is going to be really hard to just AOS. We couldn't have done it last time my husband was in America - he had an apartment full of stuff, important personal paperwork, a family who absolutely adores him, and a job he had to return to. We did consider getting married but he still would have had to go back to finalize things. It took months for me to prepare to move to Denmark. Heck, his family really needs these next 6 months to say goodbye. They are beyond distraught.

That is what I meant by proper and right way to do things - people who honestly in America planning on going home before 90 days more than likely need to go back to clean out their housing, gather their important items, give notice at a job, have quality time with their families, etc. Yes, you do have to be apart for a couple of months (oh the horror) but it is doable, we were apart the whole time my dad was dying of cancer and we made it through that.

IMO, the bold is the essense of genuine ties, because it would normally take months to finish up the life in home country when taking everything into consideration.

Don't get me wrong, it's a sensitive subject for me as well, I'm perhaps a bit more strict than the rules regarding AOS from tourist visas or VWP simply because it IMO closes doors for people _just_ visiting later on. My mom isn't a big traveler so if my dad decided to visit, I'd hate for him to be turned away at POE.

We joked about throwing my passport into Lake Michigan on every trip I made to the US because we knew of the AOS from VWP option. Heck, even 3 trips down the road, I wasn't ready to just up and leave.

Anyways...

[Tanja08 11]

You don't just get turned away at POE!

And yes circumstances do change sometimes. If it was wrong to adjust from vwp it would be illegal!