The "Dream Act" paid off for Obama in a big way

[Peikko 1,575]

For the record if anyone has a serious mental health issue, prescribing orgasm as a therapy that requires another human to perform would strike me as rape in the broadest sense, yes, I am not quite sure how else to describe a sexual act that is forced on one of the participants, Sex is not a therapy for anything, least of all mental health problems and pretending it is in an attempt to stop yourself looking stupid is extremely bizarre to say the least.

[Karee 4,189]

This thread went off the rails.

[david'sgirl 134]

I dislike the high-horse attitude of immigrants who were able to arrive in the US legally looking down on their illegal entrant counterparts. It's equally unattractive behavior, IMO, on the part of USC sponsors.

Why?

Because it's pretty freaking hard to get into this country. Somebody who got here legally was just lucky. Lucky they met a certain criteria - whether it be having a highly-specialized skill, or winning the DV lottery, or being married to an American.

Since it is so hard to get here, I think it's unkind to look down upon those who just want to come here and make a living. Especially if they desperately need to make that living to feed their family. There's a member here on VJ who is rather prolific who has written (more than once) that he would do whatever it took to feed his family. What would you do if you were in poverty across the border, and life or death for your family literally meant crossing a border?

I'm not advocating criminal activity. I'm just saying look at the big picture. If these migrants could access our system independently with some sort of work visa, (in other words if they could come over without a business sponsor) then I would fault them for scamming the system. But there is no such path for them.

That's just my two cents.

I have to disagree with you. My husband is an immigrant so obviously I have no issue with legal immigrants but I have a huge issue with Illegal immigrants. Why should someone break the law and get away with it? Why should someone else be able to come in and remain while me and my husband were forced to live apart while we waited for the visa to be issued? Why should these Criminals have any of the benefits that law abiding US Citizens and Legal residents are entitled to? If you break the rules and come in illegally then you should be offered two choices: send back where you came from with a permanent ban or sent back and go to the back of the line to wait and pay for a visa like the rest of us. why should people who willfully broke the law be rewarded for their criminal actions? The Dream act for example makes college free for children of Illegals. Well my kids were born here and did not get that benefit so I have a real issue with some offspring of an Illegal getting more than my own children. I'm tired of hearing people whine about the right of Illegals. Why should they have any rights when they should not even be here? I just cannot fathom how anyone can ignore the fact that they cheated the system and jumped the line. We waited, endured separation and incurred large fees and so should they if they want to live here. I dont believe in giving a criminal a free ride.

What shade of Gray is in between either you are here legally or you are not ?

There is no shade of gray. If you are not here legally, then you are Illegal and should be arrested.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

For the record if anyone has a serious mental health issue, prescribing orgasm as a therapy that requires another human to perform would strike me as rape in the broadest sense, yes, I am not quite sure how else to describe a sexual act that is forced on one of the participants, Sex is not a therapy for anything, least of all mental health problems and pretending it is in an attempt to stop yourself looking stupid is extremely bizarre to say the least.

You say tomato, I say 2-mot-O

[Penguin_ie 5,988]

** Let's get back on topic of the DREAM Act. If you want to go off on a tangent, start your own topic *****

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Making up your own stories and producing them as facts again? Quite the magician aren't you?

Care to tell me what I made up ? Don't think you can.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

I have to disagree with you. My husband is an immigrant so obviously I have no issue with legal immigrants but I have a huge issue with Illegal immigrants. Why should someone break the law and get away with it? Why should someone else be able to come in and remain while me and my husband were forced to live apart while we waited for the visa to be issued? Why should these Criminals have any of the benefits that law abiding US Citizens and Legal residents are entitled to? If you break the rules and come in illegally then you should be offered two choices: send back where you came from with a permanent ban or sent back and go to the back of the line to wait and pay for a visa like the rest of us. why should people who willfully broke the law be rewarded for their criminal actions? The Dream act for example makes college free for children of Illegals. Well my kids were born here and did not get that benefit so I have a real issue with some offspring of an Illegal getting more than my own children. I'm tired of hearing people whine about the right of Illegals. Why should they have any rights when they should not even be here? I just cannot fathom how anyone can ignore the fact that they cheated the system and jumped the line. We waited, endured separation and incurred large fees and so should they if they want to live here. I dont believe in giving a criminal a free ride.

There is no shade of gray. If you are not here legally, then you are Illegal and should be arrested.

You are missing the point.

The point is that your husband had a way to get here.

The big picture - A lot of people crossing the border pay $7000 to do so to Coyotes. Money that could make a difference in their home country.

The big picture - MILLIONS of illegal immigrants who could make a difference in their home country, but instead run like cowards to the US and then choose to steal our services here from law abiding citizens.

I saw screw em. Every last one of them. Deport them, remove them from this country by ANY means necessary.

You obviously know very little about the political and social systems in Mexico if you can blithely say these people can stay in their country and "make a difference" there.

Is it ok to sell illegal drugs or break the law in other ways to feed your family? Is it fair to a child if their parent robs a bank and is locked up for breaking the law, and the child is left basically without a parent? Children suffer all the time for the actions of their parents. Should the children of criminals be given special treatment?

Bottom line, the parents broke the law. It is unfortunate that the child is affected for the illegal actions of their parents, but this happens in our society all the time, not just in issues related to immigration.

It is illegal (Misdemeanor) to enter this country without inspection according to the Immigration and Naturalization Act of 1965. I would suggest people that have a problem with this, lobby congress to have it changed.

Drug dealing vs border crossing - not apples to apples.

that is because we are broke. We are 15 million in debt. Our health care system is overburdened our Unemployment is over 8% and has been for a long time. We have many millions getting free food. We need to put our won people to work first. Take care of them and then take when it is all fixed take on the poor huddled masses. Back when most of our parents came over, American was wide open and in need of people to settle new places. Sorry but we are full now.. Yes it's hard to get here for a reason. Be legal or be gone.

I know that sounds harsh, but if your family does not have enough food, do you go feed the whole neighborhood and let your own starve to death.

If you want to make a better life work to make things better where you are.

No, we aren't "full up".

Like I said, just look at the US immigration system. If these folks could come here legally, I believe they would do that.

Pass a background check, pass a medical, and you get to stay - say three years. I'd be in favor of it.

Edited November 12, 2012 by Rebecca Jo

[Karee 4,189]

You are missing the point.

The point is that your husband had a way to get here.

You obviously know very little about the political and social systems in Mexico if you can blithely say these people can stay in their country and "make a difference" there.

Drug dealing vs border crossing - not apples to apples.

No, we aren't "full up".

Like I said, just look at the US immigration system. If these folks could come here legally, I believe they would do that.

Pass a background check, pass a medical, and you get to stay - say three years. I'd be in favor of it.

Nonetheless, both are still illegal. How about DWI then? And it's not simply border crossing. It's ILLEGAL border crossing.

Edited November 12, 2012 by Karee

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

Oftentimes, what would be ideal and what can be done differs.

Let's look at the background surrounding the DREAM Act, purely by numbers, shall we?

There are an estimated 11,000,000 illegal aliens in the U.S., maybe millions more. Deporting a single one costs us, the American taxpayers, about $11,500 on average. Multiplied by 11 million that's $1,265,000,000,000,000.00. We don't have that kind of cash, not even a fraction of it; in fact, we are so deeply in debt that we maxed out all of our credit cards, again. That's why we just recently had the issue with raising the debt ceiling, again. The U.S. government came very close to declaring bankruptcy, again.

So if we deport about 400,000 illegal aliens per year -- which is the maximum amount possible based on the budget at hand -- it would take us 27-1/2 years to deport all 11 million. We can't deport more, because that would cost money, more money for CBP and ICE agents, more money for judges, more money for detainment centers, and so on. But we don't have more money, and we, the American taxpayers don't want to pay more to deport more. Any politician proposing to raise taxes for higher deportations would commit political suicide for himself and his party. So no politician will do that in a country that has 53-or-so million Hispanics, and counting.

So that's the background.

With cash available to deport up to about 400,000 illegal aliens per year, all of them on credit, mind you, the President said to the immigration folks: listen, try to grab the criminals first, before you kick in the doors of school houses and drag children out, or even the little guy who works hard to support his family.

That's the issue at hand: the biggest bang for our buck.

Dr. O. wants to deport 400,000 criminals per year, instead of 100,000 criminals and 300,000 children, while the 300,000 criminals he can't deport due to budget restraints can keep on doing their thing.

At some end we have to realize that we can't deport them all. This end is the kids who were brought to the U.S. before age 16 to no fault of their own. So instead of them working under the table, the President figures it's better for them to pay income taxes and into SS instead. I'd call that a very smart move. Yes, it's not ideal, but given the circumstances, even if we give 1 million illegal immigrants some form of amnesty this way, we are still with about 10 million who won't qualify. Plenty to deport, at 400,000 per year. A quarter century worth of deportations, to be precise.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Brother Hesekiel

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Oftentimes, what would be ideal and what can be done differs.

Let's look at the background surrounding the DREAM Act, purely by numbers, shall we?

There are an estimated 11,000,000 illegal aliens in the U.S., maybe millions more. Deporting a single one costs us, the American taxpayers, about $11,500 on average. Multiplied by 11 million that's $1,265,000,000,000,000.00. We don't have that kind of cash, not even a fraction of it; in fact, we are so deeply in debt that we maxed out all of our credit cards, again. That's why we just recently had the issue with raising the debt ceiling, again. The U.S. government came very close to declaring bankruptcy, again.

So if we deport about 400,000 illegal aliens per year -- which is the maximum amount possible based on the budget at hand -- it would take us 27-1/2 years to deport all 11 million. We can't deport more, because that would cost money, more money for CBP and ICE agents, more money for judges, more money for detainment centers, and so on. But we don't have more money, and we, the American taxpayers don't want to pay more to deport more. Any politician proposing to raise taxes for higher deportations would commit political suicide for himself and his party. So no politician will do that in a country that has 53-or-so million Hispanics, and counting.

So that's the background.

With cash available to deport up to about 400,000 illegal aliens per year, all of them on credit, mind you, the President said to the immigration folks: listen, try to grab the criminals first, before you kick in the doors of school houses and drag children out, or even the little guy who works hard to support his family.

That's the issue at hand: the biggest bang for our buck.

Dr. O. wants to deport 400,000 criminals per year, instead of 100,000 criminals and 300,000 children, while the 300,000 criminals he can't deport due to budget restraints can keep on doing their thing.

At some end we have to realize that we can't deport them all. This end is the kids who were brought to the U.S. before age 16 to no fault of their own. So instead of them working under the table, the President figures it's better for them to pay income taxes and into SS instead. I'd call that a very smart move. Yes, it's not ideal, but given the circumstances, even if we give 1 million illegal immigrants some form of amnesty this way, we are still with about 10 million who won't qualify. Plenty to deport, at 400,000 per year. A quarter century worth of deportations, to be precise.

Stop making sense and stop being reasonable. This is P&R. You ought to come out with bombastic bullshite around here in order to be taken seriously.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Oftentimes, what would be ideal and what can be done differs.

Let's look at the background surrounding the DREAM Act, purely by numbers, shall we?

There are an estimated 11,000,000 illegal aliens in the U.S., maybe millions more. Deporting a single one costs us, the American taxpayers, about $11,500 on average. Multiplied by 11 million that's $1,265,000,000,000,000.00. We don't have that kind of cash, not even a fraction of it; in fact, we are so deeply in debt that we maxed out all of our credit cards, again. That's why we just recently had the issue with raising the debt ceiling, again. The U.S. government came very close to declaring bankruptcy, again.

So if we deport about 400,000 illegal aliens per year -- which is the maximum amount possible based on the budget at hand -- it would take us 27-1/2 years to deport all 11 million. We can't deport more, because that would cost money, more money for CBP and ICE agents, more money for judges, more money for detainment centers, and so on. But we don't have more money, and we, the American taxpayers don't want to pay more to deport more. Any politician proposing to raise taxes for higher deportations would commit political suicide for himself and his party. So no politician will do that in a country that has 53-or-so million Hispanics, and counting.

So that's the background.

With cash available to deport up to about 400,000 illegal aliens per year, all of them on credit, mind you, the President said to the immigration folks: listen, try to grab the criminals first, before you kick in the doors of school houses and drag children out, or even the little guy who works hard to support his family.

That's the issue at hand: the biggest bang for our buck.

Dr. O. wants to deport 400,000 criminals per year, instead of 100,000 criminals and 300,000 children, while the 300,000 criminals he can't deport due to budget restraints can keep on doing their thing.

At some end we have to realize that we can't deport them all. This end is the kids who were brought to the U.S. before age 16 to no fault of their own. So instead of them working under the table, the President figures it's better for them to pay income taxes and into SS instead. I'd call that a very smart move. Yes, it's not ideal, but given the circumstances, even if we give 1 million illegal immigrants some form of amnesty this way, we are still with about 10 million who won't qualify. Plenty to deport, at 400,000 per year. A quarter century worth of deportations, to be precise.

So what happens if the government does it's job and starts busting the h*ll out of the people employing illegals along with making e-verify mandatory? Wouldn't that be better than rewarding these illegals?

Stop making sense and stop being reasonable. This is P&R. You ought to come out with bombastic bullshite around here in order to be taken seriously.

How many times has it been mentioned, especially by Gary that if you start busting the people employing illegals that the problem will be solved? If they can't work here why would they stay here? duh

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

So what happens if the government does it's job and starts busting the h*ll out of the people employing illegals along with making e-verify mandatory? Wouldn't that be better than rewarding these illegals?

How many times has it been mentioned, especially by Gary that if you start busting the people employing illegals that the problem will be solved? If they can't work here why would they stay here? duh

I have no problem going after the employers. Problem is, it's not going to happen. So we will need to look for other, workable solutions.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

I have no problem going after the employers. Problem is, it's not going to happen. So we will need to look for other, workable solutions.

Why won't it happen? Better yet why do so many people settle for rewarding illegals? It's pathetic.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Why won't it happen? Better yet why do so many people settle for rewarding illegals? It's pathetic.

Why? You really gotta ask? Because those that govern are the same that exploit this illegal labor. They benefit and they will not let anything come between them and a buck. That's why. Do you really believe this is a Democrat vs. Republican issue? Really? I've got a cool bridge to sell since you seem to be in the market.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

I'm all for making e-verify mandatory.

I'm for making submission of the I-9 data to the USCIS mandatory.

I'm for making unlawful presence a misdemeanor.

I'm for imposing huge fines on employers who get caught knowingly employing illegal aliens.

Not going to happen for 2 reasons:

1) Since corporate American finances our politicians' election campaigns, yes Obama's included, no politician can propose a law hurting his masters.

2) The Hispanic population of the United States, and with it the number of registered Latino voters, would not want that to happen.

So for the same reason the 14th Amendment, and the 2nd Amendment will not be amended, "Immigration Reform" is at this point merely a way to solve the problems of illegal immigrants who are already in the United States.