Language differences and communication woes

[TBoneTX 43,422]

Story of Note:

Shortly after Mrs. T-B. arrived, I took her to the nearby Mexican supermarket (part of a small local chain). As we checked out, I had her ask the staff (3 guys & a girl) if they could guess where she was from, on the basis of her dialect. The guesses were Honduras, Colombia, and "not Mexico." They were amazed to hear that she was from Ecu. One of the guys actually said, "Wow! I thought that all Ecuatorianas were UGLY!"

Afterwards, we had a good laugh about this. Mrs. T-B. surmised that their only information about Ecuatorianos was seeing pictures of those stubby Indians in their colorful outfits and funny hats.

In this same market on a different visit, I began collecting the numerous bags of groceries in preparation for taking them to the car. A guy behind us in line said, in Spanish, "That's the job of the WIFE."

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Along this line: the last time Mrs. T-B. & I were in Ecu, she had a lengthy evening caucus with some of her old high-school girlfriends at an outside pub/restaurant. Most of these ladies were divorced; some were never-married; a couple were married to Ecuatorianos. She was telling them all about her life in America. I was patiently sucking down Inca Kolas (I think a full dozen, by the end) and trying to catch words during the conversation. Mrs. T-B. came to discussing that I don't eat breakfast; I take my lunches to work, so she makes 3 sandwiches each for Monday & Tuesday and then those for the rest of the week on Tuesday night; and I'll eat leftovers for dinner, and even scrounge chow for myself if she's too tired to make anything. One of her amigas blurted out "O dios mio" (oh, my God). After frantically practicing mentally, I managed to say, in pidgin Spanish, "I come home from my job and ask, 'Where's my food,' and she says 'Silencio! Mi novela! (shut up -- my soap opera!)'" This drew some laughs, and only a couple of her amigas worriedly pointed me toward the bathroom.

As funny as this was, I felt (and feel) very sorry that these perfectly good women have to live with machista behavior. I often wonder how much of this carries over to life in the U.S., and whether female U.S. petitioners have a struggle to overcome overt or vestigial machista behavior.

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As far as communication, does your SO insist on ignoring the high-tech mops in your house and instead use a rag on a stick?

[Aztec&Taino 144]

For my part, I remain deeply impressed that the Spanish language enables one to refer to a pedito (a small fart), a pedo (a regular fart), or a pedote (a major fart), si man. Had I not been exposed to Mrs. T-B.'s rich cultural background, I never would have known this, no man. Once I was blind, but now I can si, man!

It is also interesting to note the richness of meaning of the word pedo. You can also use the word to express a familiar greeting, as in "que pedo, guey?" The word can also be used to explain trouble and worry: "Estoy en un gran pedo" (I'm in big trouble). Yes, it can also mean a fart and, of course, you can denote the degree of loudness or stinkiness of the subject.

New question, si man: Does every Spanish-speaker here know exactly what a "calzoncillo chino" is?

I have NO IDEA. Would you please enlighten me?

[Mononoke28 134]

OK si man, let's turn the conversation:

1) If in Ecuador "chapa" refers somewhat derogatorily to the police, what word in YOUR (or your SO's) Spanish dialect is used in that sense? Does anyone call them "puercos" (pigs)?

B) For firemen, does everyone also say "bomberos"?

iii) Are Americanos/Americanas chiefly referred to as gringos/gringas, or are there alternate terms?

d) Besides in Ecuador, Peru, & Colombia, is guinea pig (cuy) eaten?

Great topic. I took two semesters of Spanish Translations and this was one of the things we talked about the most, it was great fun.

1) If in Ecuador "chapa" refers somewhat derogatorily to the police, what word in YOUR (or your SO's) Spanish dialect is used in that sense? Does anyone call them "puercos" (pigs)?

In Colombia we call them tombos (policemen) o tomba (police). i.e. Un tombo le disparó al ladrón. La tomba vigiló el desfile.

B) For firemen, does everyone also say "bomberos"?

Yes, that's the only word we use for firemen: bomberos.

iii) Are Americanos/Americanas chiefly referred to as gringos/gringas, or are there alternate terms?

In Colombia (and I believe in most of Latin America) we call most foreigners "gringos", whether they're from the US, England, Canada, Sweden, Germany, etc. The fact that they speak a different language (usually Germanic), that makes them a gringo/a. Now, it's not a derogatory word as most gringos think it is, it's just a term we use, just like we call Puerto Ricans, boricuas, people from Mexico City, chilangos, people from the coffee region of Colombia, paisas, etc.

d) Besides in Ecuador, Peru, & Colombia, is guinea pig (cuy) eaten?

In Colombia, guinea pig is mainly eaten in the Department of Nariño and I think it's because it borders Ecuador. You would not eat this in any other part of the country, in fact, most of us think it's disgusting!

Diana

Edited October 6, 2011 by Mononoke28

[yachachiq12 43]

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Along this line: the last time Mrs. T-B. & I were in Ecu, she had a lengthy evening caucus with some of her old high-school girlfriends at an outside pub/restaurant. Most of these ladies were divorced; some were never-married; a couple were married to Ecuatorianos. She was telling them all about her life in America. I was patiently sucking down Inca Kolas (I think a full dozen, by the end) and trying to catch words during the conversation. Mrs. T-B. came to discussing that I don't eat breakfast; I take my lunches to work, so she makes 3 sandwiches each for Monday & Tuesday and then those for the rest of the week on Tuesday night; and I'll eat leftovers for dinner, and even scrounge chow for myself if she's too tired to make anything. One of her amigas blurted out "O dios mio" (oh, my God). After frantically practicing mentally, I managed to say, in pidgin Spanish, "I come home from my job and ask, 'Where's my food,' and she says 'Silencio! Mi novela! (shut up -- my soap opera!)'" This drew some laughs, and only a couple of her amigas worriedly pointed me toward the bathroom.

You always have great stories, TBone!

New question, si man: Does every Spanish-speaker here know exactly what a "calzoncillo chino" is?

I have NO IDEA. Would you please enlighten me?

I don't know what it is either, but I often confuse "calzoncillo" with "calzon," much to my husband's dismay. Don't you think it odd that the male underpants should carry the diminutive? What's going on under the clothes in the Spanish-speaking world?

I did find this Is that it?

Cuy is an under-appreciated food for sure. Why would you want one as a pet? They are best employed eating the scraps off your packed mud kitchen floor and then eaten crispy during a raucous family celebration.

And speaking of cats and pets and such way above: the packaging of pet products has been very misleading to my husband. I brought home some rawhide for the dogs that was in a pretty package, served a couple, and then left it on the counter. Husband comes home from work hungry, we're talking in the kitchen, and before I can say anything he's biting into a raw hide! "What are you doing?!" "Trying the new candy..." After my explanation, he insists that I never tell anyone. Oops.

[closed20111009 0]

What a interesting subject! I've enjoyed reading all the anecdotes. Well, I'm from Colombia and my husband is american (gringuito ). Our relationship basically has been in english. But what a surprise when I came here and I heard so different english, very different to the one I learnt in the institutes or even pretty different to what I practiced with my love Being here I realized how often the people shorten the words.... my mother in law told me that it's slang, but anyway...It's more common that I thought and many times I just do not "identify" the word because I'm listening the "short-version" .

And about the numerical system...the first days having dinner with the family we were talking about something and I mentioned that the world population now was almost 7.000.000.000 but I said "seven thousand millions" and everybody looked at me like "what a hell r u talking about????". My husband smiled and said: "baby that number does not exist!!!" And I said: "what???? Of course it does...."

Well in the end we knew that in Latinamerica we use the long scale while in USA is the short scale.... One billion here is 1.000.000.000 but for us one billion is 1.000.000.000.000.... aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh!!!!

And well... I'm still working hard to improve my english!!! It's hard sometimes, but sometimes is funny too.

[Nica_In_Love 98]

New question, si man: Does every Spanish-speaker here know exactly what a "calzoncillo chino" is?

I have no idea what that means...?

[TBoneTX 43,422]

I often confuse "calzoncillo" with "calzon," much to my husband's dismay. Don't you think it odd that the male underpants should carry the diminutive? What's going on under the clothes in the Spanish-speaking world?

Uh, maybe the women are gordas? [Ducks for cover, si man]

I did find this Is that it?

Ding ding ding We have a winner, si man! "Calzoncillo chino" = wedgie, si man. As explained by Mrs. T-B., the literal "Chinese underwear" is meant to refer to the skimpy wrappings that Sumo wrestlers wear, which looks like it goes up the, uh, nalga-crack. Perhaps it can be forgiven that Sumo wrestlers are Japanese rather than Chinese, si man.

Other presumably civilized languages, Russian for one, has (gasp, shudder) NO term for "wedgie." This is appalling and shocking. By the way, go to the General Polls forum and participate in the "Wedgies, Si Man" poll, conveniently near the top.

For a better explanation than the rather anemic one in the link above, Google "atomic wedgie" and educate yourself, see man.

[Gosia & Tito 199]

OK si man, let's turn the conversation:

1) If in Ecuador "chapa" refers somewhat derogatorily to the police, what word in YOUR (or your SO's) Spanish dialect is used in that sense? Does anyone call them "puercos" (pigs)?

B) For firemen, does everyone also say "bomberos"?

iii) Are Americanos/Americanas chiefly referred to as gringos/gringas, or are there alternate terms?

d) Besides in Ecuador, Peru, & Colombia, is guinea pig (cuy) eaten?

1. 'tombos'; no idea where that came from; some also use 'tomberia'

2. same

3. not as common but used nevertheless: 'güero'/'güera'; in Peru is also more or less common to call them 'colorados', especially if they are more on the reddish side

4. in Peru, mostly in the mountains.

[TBoneTX 43,422]

But what a surprise when I came here and I heard so different english, very different to the one I learnt in the institutes or even pretty different to what I practiced with my love Being here I realized how often the people shorten the words.... my mother in law told me that it's slang, but anyway...It's more common that I thought and many times I just do not "identify" the word because I'm listening the "short-version" .

Seriously for a fleeting moment, I don't know how ANYONE learns English as a second language. Every time there seems to be a regular rule of conjugation, pronunciation, spelling, or whatever, there are a billion (whoops, "thousand million") exceptions. Furthermore, gringos speak English casually and sloppily (both grammatically and in elocution), and American English is so full of idioms that it must be hard to keep track of them all.

A Chinese friend once observed to me, "Basic English is very easy for Chinese people to learn. However, what we call 'elegant English' is something that only a very few of us ever achieve."

An overlooked challenge, I think, is that even if people learn English in school or university, there is no regular opportunity to practice afterwards. This happened with Mrs. T-B.-to-be. When I first began talking by phone with her, her English was so rusty that I almost dropped her in favor of a (quite lovely) Peruana whom I was independently checking out. That, and $1/minute to phone Ecuador vs. 15 cents/minute to phone Peru, si man. Of course, it is obvious now that Mrs. T-B. bought me cheap.

Americanos sometimes say, "Why don't they (immigrants, usually Mexican) learn English?" Well, it's not that easy. Some (perhaps chiefly the illegals) may not have received much education in their own country. If immigrants are married to a fellow countryman/countrywoman (paisano/paisana, or is that just Colombia?), of course they're going to speak Spanish at home -- they probably both work, they're tired, there's stuff to do, and it's mentally exhausting to have to translate in your head before you speak or after you listen. There's probably also the fear of having their language skills laughed at or criticized by native gringos. Sure, people can attend English as a Second Language classes all they want -- if their jobs or family lives allow it -- but again, if they can't practice, what's the lasting use of it, huh man?

On request of Mrs. T-B., I have helped proofread school assignments that her amigas have written. The intellect and deep thought are obviously there... but it's obvious when the writer's brain has quit, from the fatigue of trying to express herself only in a foreign language. Some of these amigas have given me monstrous hugs when they've seen me afterwards, and I know why -- and it's not just because I'm irresistibly handsome and desirable, no man. It's because as wives, mothers, and students, having to struggle with a foreign language is a stress that they'd rather be rid of, chao man.

Before the birth of Mini-Bone, Mrs. T-B. was attending a free E.S.L. class. Without exception, her classmates were jealous that she was married to a gringo, with whom she got to practice her English (and, she bought him cheap), si man.

[AKSinghSingh79 143]

Very interesting topic!

I would love to hear about this from other fellow India members, especially to the Americans who did not grow up speaking a native Indian language.

India is a very unique yet bizarre country in that they have hundreds of unofficial languages. It's difficult at times for them to find a common language to communicate in! Although Hindi and English are the official languages of India, English is usually reserved as a second or third language and many smaller villages don't even offer English at all. That being said, what is considered Indian English is very different from anything a typical American is used to speaking. They've effectively Indianized it! For instance, in standard American English, I would say, "I have had this job for the past 6 years". In Indian English, it would be said "I am having this job from the last 6 years". Similarly, Indians like to turn some common nouns into verbs, "My head is 'paining'" instead of "My head hurts"

My fiance is a native speaker of Hindi along with his regional dialect Kumaoni. He also learned Punjabi as a second language and finally English as his third. As if this wouldn't be confusing enough for me, his version of Hindi is a very specific regional dialect (Himalayan/mountain) so he speaks different Hindi than what is spoken in New Delhi. I've been teaching myself standard Hindi though and after I learned how to write the script (devanagari) it has been a surprisingly painless process. The good news for me is that most Indians (including my fiance) now speak an Hindi/English mix (Hinglish) which can be anywhere from 5-25% English and I can usually interpret at least part of what he's saying through the random insertion of English words. Mr. SinghSingh told me that the formal Hindi that I am learning is rarely used anymore and that the Hinglish version is the most popular. For instance, I have never heard an Indian use the Hindi word for police officer, they just use the English, police. And K commonly tells me that he is a "total pagal" (a completely mad person in the sense of love or pyar)

I am curious, if any other India member are reading this, what jyada means to you? Or subjee, or jara?

Bahut acchi!

[missicy 87]

Mrs. T-B. recently announced, "I bought you cheap." I said, "Well, that's a typical price for a cochino gringo, but what the devil are you talking about?" She said, "Cheap, CHEAP! I bought you CHEAP!" After some detective-work, it turned out that she had been to the supermarket and had purchased a bag of potato cheaps for me, si man.

It's even funnier when she mentions changing the sh*ts on the bed, uff man.

Lol that's funny. My husband laughs when I say I'm going to put my sneakers on: "How are you goin to put Snickers on?" Lol, my English is pretty good and I can hear the difference in pronounciation when he says those words, but I just don't know how to prounounce them differently.

[TBoneTX 43,422]

I can hear the difference in pronounciation when he says those words, but I just don't know how to prounounce them differently.

Try using exaggerated mouth-shapes, to begin. When you say "sneakers," smile as widely as you can, and it should come out "sneeeeekers." For "snickers," raise your upper lip off your upper teeth, and the "ih" vowel should come out distinctly.

There are a lot of little tricks like this. It's fun to lie in bed and have one's foreign spouse read a paragraph or two in English, from any book or magazine of choice, for some gentle critiquing, si man. We used to do this until the arrival of little Mini-Bone.

Interestingly, Mrs. T-B. has trouble with the "uh" sound, which comes out as "ah." Do any of the Spanish-speakers here have tips, huh man?

[TBoneTX 43,422]

Very interesting topic!

I would love to hear about this from other fellow India members, especially to the Americans who did not grow up speaking a native Indian language.

So would I, si man. A-Bone, recruit some of your paisanos... er, fellow India folks to contribute, si man!

[Stinkerpotsam 5]

Sounds crazy but American English vs British English and the accents involved can make for interesting days as well....the slang especially! I think the word that is used most in this house is "What???" or "What did you say????"

[Aztec&Taino 144]

Sounds crazy but American English vs British English and the accents involved can make for interesting days as well....the slang especially! I think the word that is used most in this house is "What???" or "What did you say????"

I have a funny anecdote about British English. I used to have a university classmate who was from England (I don't remember what area, but not from London). Anyway, her accent was lovely and she was very nice, too. One day we went to a local restaurant for lunch and I placed my order with the cashier first, my friend placed her order second. Well, the cashier got my order but she could not understand ANYTHING my friend was saying. I had to "translate" the order (repeat it) to the cashier so she could understand it. The funny thing is that I, too, have a very marked accent since English is not my first language. However, the cashier could understand me and not my friend.

I also remember that my friend told time in the British way and not the American way, thereby confusing most people. I, however, understood her right away and she was surprised at this. Well, having had to learn American English I am used to "reading" the nuances of language so it is easy for me to see and understand different uses. I have also become more fluent in Spanish of different countries and regions since I have been living in the US.