'Hundreds of young black people beating white people'...

[Zero Sum 305]

You suggested someone fire a round up into the air. That's going to be pretty close to "straight up" isn't it?

If someone fires "straight up" then the bullet will go up, turn around, and "fall" back down. In most cases, that's not going to be fatal. What is (possibly) going to be fatal for that person is the mob that can now attack them with more extreme prejudice because they're a more dangerous victim and need to be overcome more quickly.

If you pull a weapon and/or fire a round into the air with a group of violent people around you and they run away, you're very lucky. If they stand there and make you shoot someone, chances are you're going to be overcome since they've already decided you can be overcome by the mob.

Ever seen a group of mongoose take a cobra?

Like I said, I'm not disagreeing with you.

[Zero Sum 305]

Except here:

That's going to be pretty close to "straight up" isn't it?

Not really. You'd have parabolic trajectory due to the slightest deviation from the perpendicular angle to the angle of gravity. Everything different from that will obviously be subject to gravity, but will still be able to retain the kinetic energy from the gun.

[slim 1,514]

i knew what you were talking about. i was trying to give a visual.

The best visual is in the movie Tombstone when Wyatt Earp raises his Peacemaker to Ike's head and says, "You die first. Your boys may get me in a rush, but not before I make your head into a canoe, you understand me?"

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Except here:

Not really. You'd have parabolic trajectory due to the slightest deviation from the perpendicular angle to the angle of gravity. Everything different from that will obviously be subject to gravity, but will still be able to retain the kinetic energy from the gun.

Go back and check your physics books. The flight path is not parabolic.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Crusty Old Perv

[slim 1,514]

Not really. You'd have parabolic trajectory due to the slightest deviation from the perpendicular angle to the angle of gravity. Everything different from that will obviously be subject to gravity, but will still be able to retain the kinetic energy from the gun.

What's the angle and distance that it loses it's kinetic energy?

Also, while we're at it, how much more energy does a bullet that retains part of it's kinetic energy have against one that's simply "falling?" And is that enough to kill someone?

[ready4ONE 5,400]

How many street mobs have you stopped with your trusty sidearm slim? Gonna run with none, but plus one on the jingoist fantasy!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Wisconsin is the other state that does not allow anyone to carry a gun for self defense. That will hopefully change this year leaving Illinois the only state where bad people can do this without fear of being killed by good people. If the good people of Wisconsin could defend themselves, this kind of thing simply will not happen

If they allow anyone to carry a gun, there crime rate will plummet and be right there with Vermont's

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

How many street mobs have you stopped with your trusty sidearm slim? Gonna run with none, but plus one on the jingoist fantasy!

ALL of them. In Vermont there are no street mobs. They are afraid of being shot. We don;t actually have to shoot them, the fact that the possibility is always present is enough to STOP them. No carjackings either. Only 4 homicides last year, not a single police officer killed by a firearm in the line of duty...ever. Armed citizens in Vermont have virtually eliminated crime. Without firing a shot.

You think that crime can only be stopped with a gun by killing people, or at least shooting them. Not true. The known presence of concealed firearms, at any place and any time is enough to stop it.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

What's the angle and distance that it loses it's kinetic energy?

Also, while we're at it, how much more energy does a bullet that retains part of it's kinetic energy have against one that's simply "falling?" And is that enough to kill someone?

We have stopped virtually all crime in Vermont and never fired a shot. Why would anyone be against all states having the same laws we have?

Does anyone here seriously think police ONLY stop crime by shooting people? Why do criminals flee when they think the police are coming? When someone commits a crime with a gun, who do you call? Someone with a gun.

[웃 910]

I am trying to find a stat on which city has the most guns per capita...Can't find yet...But I am willing to bit the city is not in Vermont and that the crime rate is higher than avg. (and definitely higher than in VT).

I think you have some excellent points but it doesn't take a brain surgeon to realize that VT is a rare case, an outlier, an exception when it comes to crime stats...

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I am trying to find a stat on which city has the most guns per capita...Can't find yet...But I am willing to bit the city is not in Vermont and that the crime rate is higher than avg. (and definitely higher than in VT).

I think you have some excellent points but it doesn't take a brain surgeon to realize that VT is a rare case, an outlier, an exception when it comes to crime stats...

I only carry ONE gun at a time. The number of guns I have in my closet means nothing. Feel free to pursue dumb statistics. Most states do not require firearms registration so there really is very little to go by as to who owns what. That is the idea.

While you are at it, find the city with the most guns AND that allows ANYONE to carry a concealed weapon without a permit. You do not have to be a resident of Vermont to carry concealed firearms here. I suspect that it would be Burlington Vermont, perhaps Rutland, but I also suspect you won't find that statistic.

I have never EVER made a claim that Vermont has the most guns per capita (who cares? one is all it takes) or that having lots of guns in closets and sock drawers prevents crime. It doesn't.

What prevents crime, is the ABILITY for ANYone to be carrying a firearm ANYwhere. Since Vermont requires NO permits or license there is no statistic on how many Vermonters are carrying guns (that IS the idea) It may be more or less than any other state or city. There may be only 1 in 100 people carrying guns in Burlington tonight. Maybe 1 in 10. Maybe. Who knows?

In Vermont there is ONLY one way to find out who is carrying a gun.

ONE thing you are correct about. If a city is anywhere except Vermont, it's crime rate is higher.

Edited August 6, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[웃 910]

I only carry ONE gun at a time. The number of guns I have in my closet means nothing. Feel free to pursue dumb statistics. Most states do not require firearms registration so there really is very little to go by as to who owns what. That is the idea.

While you are at it, find the city with the most guns AND that allows ANYONE to carry a concealed weapon without a permit. You do not have to be a resident of Vermont to carry concealed firearms here. I suspect that it would be Burlington Vermont, perhaps Rutland, but I also suspect you won't find that statistic.

I have never EVER made a claim that Vermont has the most guns per capita (who cares? one is all it takes) or that having lots of guns in closets and sock drawers prevents crime. It doesn't.

What prevents crime, is the ABILITY for ANYone to be carrying a firearm ANYwhere. Since Vermont requires NO permits or license there is no statistic on how many Vermonters are carrying guns (that IS the idea) It may be more or less than any other state or city. There may be only 1 in 100 people carrying guns in Burlington tonight. Maybe 1 in 10. Maybe. Who knows?

In Vermont there is ONLY one way to find out who is carrying a gun.

ONE thing you are correct about. If a city is anywhere except Vermont, it's crime rate is higher.

Have you been to any inner cities? It is not a LACK of guns that is the problem (nor is it too strict gun laws)..

Edited August 6, 2011 by Lord Infamous

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_(by_state)

Gun laws in the United States (by state)

Alaska is the first state to adopt carry laws mimicking Vermont's (normally referred to as "Vermont Carry"), in which no license is required to carry a handgun either openly or concealed. However, permits are still issued to residents for purposes such as reciprocity with other states and exemption from the Federal Gun Free School Zone Act.[17] The term "Alaska Carry" has been used to describe laws which require no license to carry handguns openly or concealed but licenses are still available for those who want them. Some city ordinances do not permit concealed carry without a concealed carry license, but these have been invalidated by the recent state preemption statute.

Alaska restricts people from carrying guns in any place regulated by the liquor control board (bars and liquor stores, and restaurants that serve alcohol only with carry permit), schools, domestic violence shelters, courts, and correctional institutions. A person carrying a concealed gun in Alaska, when contacted by a police officer is required by law to inform the officer they are carrying and cooperate if the officer chooses to temporarily seize the gun for the length of the encounter. The possession of any firearm while intoxicated is illegal.

[웃 910]

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

In the lower 48 most of them pack auto's like this woosie Glock 9mm down below...

In Alaska most of us carry manly guns aka HAWWWWWWWWG LEG...