Green Card holder vs Citizenship

[franki 0]

Hello my Dear Friends – Experts,

I have few very important questions to ask and discuss.

I have read about this topic here and there but still without you GREAT experts I can not give any advise to this friend of mine. She is a PR (10 years green card holder) who is planning to go out of the USA to her home town for 4 years (private job/work).

I will leave space for each question so you GREAT people answer them easily:

1- According to uscis a PR MUST maintain his/her status by not leaving the states for no more than 6 months:

Question: If she is leaving the US for period of 5 months and 28 days and she is back in US and stays for a week and leave the US for another 5 moths and 28 days, does that mean she is obeying the law? (she will have a physical address in US – valid driving license – cars under her name – will come and pay her taxes)

2- Physical presence in the US for someone who is a PR and applying based on 5 years residence is 30 months presence :

Question: She already lived in the US for period of almost 2 years as PR means she has already passed 24 moths, so if she continue to go back and forth as I mentioned above, it should not be an issue for her to apply for her citizenship, since she is following what they are asking? (she will have a physical address in US – valid driving license – cars under her name – will come and pay her taxes)

3- Per uscis to maintain your PR status you should show ties to US or if you are planning to be away from the US for more than one year you have to apply for re-entry permit. Yes she has 2 cars on her name- driving license – bank accounts will be active – as mentioned above she will have a physical address here in US – she will come back every 5 months and 28 days to the US:

Question: Does she still need to apply for than re-entry permit, she will be back to the US within 6 or should I say before 6 months according to the law?

I would appreciate your detailed thoughts – experience from others. As I mentioned above I have read USCIS basic rules they have on their site and I am confirming this with you great people because she (my friend) did try to contact uscis to ask them about these concerns, the representatives on the other side of the phone reading the same sentences where we can read on uscis website.

Many thanks in advance!!!

[Faith in destiny 0]

Hi,

I am just answering your questions in general. It is stated that PR holders can not leave the states for more than 6 months. You might be able to get advance parole to leave the country for more than 6 months. If not, it can certainly cause you some trouble if you only leave for a little less than 6 months and come back and forth. So you will need to have a good explanation for doing that. Also, when you apply for citizenship, you are required to state all of the travels you have done out of the country and they can deny your application if they are not satisfy with the reasons you provided for leaving the country so often and for so long. Therefore it is better if you gather all of the necessary information before you make any move...

Edited May 5, 2011 by Faith in destiny

[Anh map 2,098]

Living outside the US and visiting for 2 weeks per year is not maintaining a US residence and your friend will be in danger of losing their status.

Regarding citizenship the clock would likely be reset to zero after such long times out of the US, so the 5 years would begin once your friend returned and was actually living full time in the US.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

1- According to uscis a PR MUST maintain his/her status by not leaving the states for no more than 6 months:

Question: If she is leaving the US for period of 5 months and 28 days and she is back in US and stays for a week and leave the US for another 5 moths and 28 days, does that mean she is obeying the law? (she will have a physical address in US – valid driving license – cars under her name – will come and pay her taxes)

Nope, that would be seen, and rightfully so, as a means of circumvent the residency requirements. It might work 2 or even 3 times, but then the hammer will fall and great darkness will come upon her.

2- Physical presence in the US for someone who is a PR and applying based on 5 years residence is 30 months presence :

Question: She already lived in the US for period of almost 2 years as PR means she has already passed 24 moths, so if she continue to go back and forth as I mentioned above, it should not be an issue for her to apply for her citizenship, since she is following what they are asking? (she will have a physical address in US – valid driving license – cars under her name – will come and pay her taxes)

CBP can take a snapshot on the time of her residency at any time. So for the first 2 years she has been playing by the rules, and from there on she has not maintained residency. That can be the kiss of death. Pretty much like #1.

3- Per uscis to maintain your PR status you should show ties to US or if you are planning to be away from the US for more than one year you have to apply for re-entry permit. Yes she has 2 cars on her name- driving license – bank accounts will be active – as mentioned above she will have a physical address here in US – she will come back every 5 months and 28 days to the US:

Question: Does she still need to apply for than re-entry permit, she will be back to the US within 6 or should I say before 6 months according to the law?

No. The reentry permit makes only sense when being absent for 1 year all the way up to 2 years. For absences of less than 1 year, it is useless.

The point remains, as a Green Card holder, she really needs to spend more time in the US, than outside of it. If CBP at any time feels she lives in her former country of residence, they will initiate having her Green Card revoked.

Beyond that, when applying for naturalization, she will have to list any and all absences from the US on her application. If she shows a pattern like the one you outlined, they not only will deny her citizenship application, but do what CBP would have done already: pull the plug on her Green Card.

Edited May 5, 2011 by Just Bob

[katiemanny 64]

She cant leave for 4 years with her 10 years green card, however she can leave as she pleased if she becomes a US Citizen, the only real advice is reject the job offer until she becomes a US Citizenship or give up her Green Card and go for it.

[franki 0]

Many Thanks for your time. I just have few more questions :

1- According to uscis a PR MUST maintain his/her status by not leaving the states for no more than 6 months:

Question: If she is leaving the US for period of 5 months and 28 days and she is back in US and stays for a week and leave the US for another 5 moths and 28 days, does that mean she is obeying the law? (she will have a physical address in US – valid driving license – cars under her name – will come and pay her taxes)

Nope, that would be seen, and rightfully so, as a means of circumvent the residency requirements. It might work 2 or even 3 times, but then the hammer will fall and great darkness will come upon her.

I am not trying to deny your answer but what they say on their own website ( http://www.uscis.gov/files/article/M-476.pdf ) is what they should implement. They are clearly saying '' you cannot leave the US or leaving the US more than 6 months is going to create questions'' . If this is the case then she will come back every 5 months back to the US, meaning she is following the rules .Yes she does have the intention to live here in the US but for now there a job opportunity for her, If that was not the case why she is planning or keep coming back every 5 months, Does that not enough evidence of her being interested to settle here in the US ?

2- Physical presence in the US for someone who is a PR and applying based on 5 years residence is 30 months presence :

Question: She already lived in the US for period of almost 2 years as PR means she has already passed 24 moths, so if she continue to go back and forth as I mentioned above, it should not be an issue for her to apply for her citizenship, since she is following what they are asking? (she will have a physical address in US – valid driving license – cars under her name – will come and pay her taxes)

CBP can take a snapshot on the time of her residency at any time. So for the first 2 years she has been playing by the rules, and from there on she has not maintained residency. That can be the kiss of death. Pretty much like #1.

I do not understand why and individual CBP has the authority to change the rules or make her/his own decision? IF she (my friend) is following what the rules/Law says on USCIS website which we all believe it’s the most accurate piece of evidence or should I say written Law then she can't actually follow it and tell them on her returns that hey I am flying back every 5 months here back in US because I have the intention to be here and the reason I am going there is temporary job that is all and i am following that I am reading on your website? It clearly says ''Not more than six months''

3- Per uscis to maintain your PR status you should show ties to US or if you are planning to be away from the US for more than one year you have to apply for re-entry permit. Yes she has 2 cars on her name- driving license – bank accounts will be active – as mentioned above she will have a physical address here in US – she will come back every 5 months and 28 days to the US:

Question: Does she still need to apply for than re-entry permit, she will be back to the US within 6 or should I say before 6 months according to the law?

No. The reentry permit makes only sense when being absent for 1 year all the way up to 2 years. For absences of less than 1 year, it is useless.

The point remains, as a Green Card holder, she really needs to spend more time in the US, than outside of it. If CBP at any time feels she lives in her former country of residence, they will initiate having her Green Card revoked.

\

Beyond that, when applying for naturalization, she will have to list any and all absences from the US on her application. If she shows a pattern like the one you outlined, they not only will deny her citizenship application, but do what CBP would have done already: pull the plug on her Green Card.

[Anh map 2,098]

A LPR maintains their status by residing in the US, not outside the US. Visiting occasionally does not meet the residency test. What you are proposing is occasional visits.

If you don't like the answers that you are getting here, I suggest that your friend consult with a few qualified immigration attorneys to gain their opinions. It would be well worth the money spent to have proper advice and guidance.

[Penguin_ie 5,987]

It's the aggregate time outside the USA that is the issue with the 5 months plan- and that 4 years isn't considered temporary.

First time she comes back after 5 months and 28 days- no problem.

Second time- problem, but will probably be let in.

Third time- big problem- likelihood she won't be let in.

- fourth time- very unlikely to be let back in.

and so on...

Edited May 6, 2011 by Penguin_ie

[NickD 202]

Answer is really quite simple if you read the N-400 form, have to write down the total number of days you are out of the country. That is checked on your interview and have to bring in your passports for that period of time. Say passports because you may have had to renew them over that specified period of time. USCIS is very strict on the residency requirements.

[warlord 72]

And don't over think this 6 month thing at all. An IO can deny anyone for being out of the country even if it's less then 6 months and has proof.

The only thing the 6 month thing means is that before 6 months the IO has to show proof the person broke continuous residency (leaving for 5 months, coming back for 2 weeks, leaving again) is boom right there proof.

After 6 months you have to prove you did not break residency to the IO. So the only thing the 6 months means is who is required to show proof and that is all.

Many people have been able to show enough proof to be out 9 or 11 months and be fine. Other people have left for 2 months, got a job outside the US in their home countries, came back and denied (and some depending on the situation, loss of their status (aka Green Card)).

The situation you posted is a great example of what not to do and not only will the N-400 be denied, but your spouse seriously faces a revocation of their Green Card as well.

If she is serious about becoming a US citizen and staying a PR, then she must remain in the US and do the opposite. Stay here for 5 months and visit her home country for 2 weeks and come back to the US...

[Szilvia74 3]

Green card = residency card. You need to be a RESIDENT to keep hold on to it. If you live somewhere else and just visiting the country in the next 4 years, you are not a resident just a tourist. And as previously stated when the time comes for naturalization she needs to prove how many days she PHYSICALLY spent here. A few days in a year will not be enough.

Your friend needs to make a choice:

apply for naturalization now (if she is eligible) and wait until it's over remaining in the usa for about 4-8 months or leave and lose her 10 year green card.

[franki 0]

And don't over think this 6 month thing at all. An IO can deny anyone for being out of the country even if it's less then 6 months and has proof.

The only thing the 6 month thing means is that before 6 months the IO has to show proof the person broke continuous residency (leaving for 5 months, coming back for 2 weeks, leaving again) is boom right there proof.

After 6 months you have to prove you did not break residency to the IO. So the only thing the 6 months means is who is required to show proof and that is all.

Many people have been able to show enough proof to be out 9 or 11 months and be fine. Other people have left for 2 months, got a job outside the US in their home countries, came back and denied (and some depending on the situation, loss of their status (aka Green Card)).

The situation you posted is a great example of what not to do and not only will the N-400 be denied, but your spouse seriously faces a revocation of their Green Card as well.

If she is serious about becoming a US citizen and staying a PR, then she must remain in the US and do the opposite. Stay here for 5 months and visit her home country for 2 weeks and come back to the US...

Thank you ALL for your time and efforts!

Thanks to Penguin_ie !! (I like the way you stated your answers in great details)

Thanks to Warlord !!

This is for you my Dear Penguin_ie … Please add some feedback

I actually passed you guy’s feedback to my friend and taking that in account since she is so afraid…. she called 2 Law offices in NY and one who is working in this field (immigration) for 14 years told her that she should apply for re-entry permit and he/she (this Lawyer ) told her they had clients applying for this permit for the third time and it is the absolute safe way with NO tensions of losing her status. basically this Lawyer gave her 100% guarantee that with a 2 years re-entry permit and continues visiting US every 5 months – pay her Taxes – keep a physical address – she will be fine . They (Lawyer) also told her re-entry permits made for this purpose and its SAFE.

Questions:

1- can we or she believe this Lawyer with 100% guarantee and what they told her about re-entry permits?

2- Per USCISC website a person can only apply for a re-entry permit once, am I wrong or this Lawyer was, since they gave her free consultation?

3- Are re-entry permits REALLY reliable and save people by LAW or it’s another term …. I hate when they say something then they add ‘’ohhh we can deny’’ ?

This is for you my Dear Warlord … Please add some feedback

Basically what they are saying on their website is not what they mean?… they are clearly stating Not more than 6 months.. I thought if she come back less than six months period and leave after 2 weeks and then come back before 6 months and shows the office at the port of entry the statement from the USCIS website and tell them hey you guys are stating this here, she won’t be in trouble but here we go I think there is no set rules here…

Questions:

1- Is that not enough prove that she is working and coming back here and paying her Taxes and shows that she is coming back here every 5 months ?

2- She is not concern about her citizenship at this time her contract for this job is 4 years ( SHE WILL NOT BE ABSENT FOR FULL 4 YEARS) she will be visiting US periodically as I mentioned every 5 months (secret I think she will make almost 800k in this 4 years ) …. So again will this re-entry permit allow her 100% to NOT be in trouble?

3- Can she really apply for a second time re-entry permit?

Thanks again!!

[NickD 202]

Could be from what your attorney is saying, but not just dealing the the Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS), also Department of Homeland Security, (they also operate independently, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (US CBP), U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE)S., the U.S. Department of State (DOS), and that guy at the POE, have no idea who he works for. Not sure about the FBI, the CIA, but would be concerned about the NCIS, Gibbs always manages to work around all these guys. Wife was already stripped search by ICE, they could have detained her or sent her back, but didn't even find an aspirin on her.

Then dealing with everybody from A to Z at the USCIS with 80 different field offices, each having a different opinion on the same subject. All I know is that they look at the total days outside of the country and if even close, your friend may have problems. Better for her to check with all these agencies.

[Szilvia74 3]

Franki,

I don't want to speak for everyone but people who replied to you told you what our advices are based on our knowledge and experience.

One more thing I can advice: there is a forum that is run by an immigration lawyer. I believe this is the link: http://www.immigration-information.com/forums/forum.php. He has a lot of experience.

Best to your friend.

[Penguin_ie 5,987]

1- can we or she believe this Lawyer with 100% guarantee and what they told her about re-entry permits?

Never, ever trust a lawyer who gives a 100% guarantee. No matter what, there is alwaysa chance that things go wrong, and someone who promises 100% is either very new or lying to you.

2- Per USCISC website a person can only apply for a re-entry permit once, am I wrong or this Lawyer was, since they gave her free consultation?

I am not sure, but I also thought you can only have one re-entry permit.

3- Are re-entry permits REALLY reliable and save people by LAW or it’s another term …. I hate when they say something then they add ‘’ohhh we can deny’

If she gets a re-entry permit, and with the plans she has for paying taxes, keeping things current etc, she is pretty sure to be allowed back in after (almost) two years. So yes, re-entry permits are very reliable. As I raid, nothing is 100%.