What does this mean on the Social Security Card?

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Rebecca Jo,

yes, formally speaking you are correct indeed.

So if somebody absolutely does not want to show his Green Card when applying for a new job, the route you outlined would, or better -- should -- work. However, since many employers (and more so the employees working for them) are cautious and rather err on the side of caution, they rather see the Green Card of of foreigner applying for a job.

I think that serves us all, but the prospective employee can of course refuse. He can also not get the job. He then can file a complaint, and still not get the job and after years of running with the head down into a wall I would suggest he rethinks his strategy. I would not hire somebody who gives me sh*t about his authorization to work when I am required to submit an I-9 to Uncle Sam. I have seen many fake (unlaminated) "cardboard" SS cards (don't ask), but not a fake Green Card.

Bob -

An employer does not ask you to complete an I-9 until you already have been hired. So refusing to show the card won't keep you from getting a job.

If you would discharge someone after hiring who gives you sh*t about showing their green card PROVIDING they have other documents that satisfy the I-9, then you as an employer are breaking the law. Plain. Simple. Fact.

And it's people like you who should be reported to the EEOC and vigorously prosecuted.

Edited February 19, 2011 by Rebecca Jo

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

Bob -

An employer does not ask you to complete an I-9 until you already have been hired. So refusing to show the card won't keep you from getting a job.

If you would discharge someone after hiring who gives you sh*t about showing their green card PROVIDING they have other documents that satisfy the I-9, then you as an employer are breaking the law. Plain. Simple. Fact.

And it's people like you who should be reported to the EEOC and vigorously prosecuted.

If I am an employer here in Southern California where we have a lot of problems with illegal immigration, and I have a job opening to fill, I would look for a US citizen who has a good attitude and good work ethics, among other things. If there's a Green Card holder who has an even better attitude, I wouldn't mind hiring him or her for the position, but in order to find out, I would have an interview where we talk about these things. During this conversation I would ask the candidate if he or she would mind showing me their Green Card. A "no" would indicate trouble to me, trouble I do not need and do not seek and I'm not willing to put up with as an employer. It's really that simple, and it will be even simpler once they impose huge fines on employers who hire people that are not authorized to work. That is the real world, and that's the world I live in.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

I have seen many fake (unlaminated) "cardboard" SS cards (don't ask), but not a fake Green Card.

Sorry but I'm curious.. unlaminated SS cards? Mine is just a piece of hard paper (kinda like thin cardboard).. are they normally laminated? Should I get it laminated?

[I'm Gone 60]

Should I get it laminated?

No

RM 10201.065 Safeguarding the SSN and SSN Card

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0110201065

C. Policy on laminating an SSN card

Instruct the card holder not to laminate his or her SSN card because lamination can prevent detection of security features on the card. When possible, tell SSN applicants in advance that SSA cannot guarantee the validity of a card that has been laminated. Suggest the card holder cover the card with plastic or other material that can be removed without damaging the card if they feel the need to protect it.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

Sorry but I'm curious.. unlaminated SS cards? Mine is just a piece of hard paper (kinda like thin cardboard).. are they normally laminated? Should I get it laminated?

Which is why it is so easy to fake, easier than you can possibly imagine and please understand that I want to leave it at that.

Add to this that there are still 3 states who issue driver licenses without proof of lawful presence, and it makes sense for an employer who wants to make sure that the person applying for the position is indeed authorized to work to see the Green Card.

Just as with relationships and landlords/tenants this is a situation where both parties have to be total confident about this. If the landlord doesn't like the prospective tenant, he/she won't get the apartment. If the employer is not comfortable with the applicant, he/she won't get hired. If the girl isn't comfortable with the guy, he won't get tail.

Edited February 20, 2011 by Just Bob

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Nice one, Bob. But it's still against the law.

Part of what we do on this website is empower the foreign born with knowledge of how to deal with a bureaucracy.

Bob, how are you deciding who should have to produce a green card and who won't? Because they have an accent? Because they "look foreign"?

What if this accented, foreign looking person tells you they have no green card because they are a US citizen? Do you make them show you their Certificate of Naturalization or US Passport?

I am pretty certain that you do not have the right to come onto this website and imply that legal immigrants should have to knuckle down to the man in order to get a job in this country. The law is designed to protect those who have entered legally by inspection and gone through all the other steps to insure their legal presence. For you to intimate that having complied with these steps is "not good enough" is nothing short of bigotry.

And it's also pretty ironic given your own personal immigration history.

[DebbyNSeyi 15]

Which is why it is so easy to fake, easier than you can possibly imagine and please understand that I want to leave it at that.

Add to this that there are still 3 states who issue driver licenses without proof of lawful presence, and it makes sense for an employer who wants to make sure that the person applying for the position is indeed authorized to work to see the Green Card.

Just as with relationships and landlords/tenants this is a situation where both parties have to be total confident about this. If the landlord doesn't like the prospective tenant, he/she won't get the apartment. If the employer is not comfortable with the applicant, he/she won't get hired. If the girl isn't comfortable with the guy, he won't get tail.

Nice one, Bob. But it's still against the law.

Part of what we do on this website is empower the foreign born with knowledge of how to deal with a bureaucracy.

Bob, how are you deciding who should have to produce a green card and who won't? Because they have an accent? Because they "look foreign"?

What if this accented, foreign looking person tells you they have no green card because they are a US citizen? Do you make them show you their Certificate of Naturalization or US Passport?

I am pretty certain that you do not have the right to come onto this website and imply that legal immigrants should have to knuckle down to the man in order to get a job in this country. The law is designed to protect those who have entered legally by inspection and gone through all the other steps to insure their legal presence. For you to intimate that having complied with these steps is "not good enough" is nothing short of bigotry.

And it's also pretty ironic given your own personal immigration history.

I usually don't get involved in these kinds of thread disputes but I've been following what you've both been writing, and I must say that I believe that you're both correct - you're just coming at it from 2 different angles. Rebecca Jo is absolutely correct about the law. And in a perfect world where profiling and "gray areas" don't exist, it should suffice to provide legal proof of work authorization just by selecting your choice of documents to show the employer. I am an American. I speak with a N.Y. accent. I have never been questioned about the proof that I provide on my I-9. Ever. I also know for a fact that the Russian guy with the heavy accent that works with me for the last 3 years - who happens to be a 10 year green-card holder - was asked, when he started working here, for his green card IN ADDITION to the valid proof that he provided for his I-9. Was that illegal of the employer? Yes. Does it happen though? Absolutely! If this guy didn't have any foreign accent, you can bet that he never would have been asked for any additional proof. I never was. The bottom line is that a person who wants this job and has a green card will NOT mouth off at the employer that it's illegal. He'll bring in his green card asap. Why? Because he wants the job. And if he doesn't have a green card? Oh well. He has no legal right to work there anyway. So, Rebecca Jo - from a legal and technical standpoint, you are 100% correct. But in the real world, Just Bob is very correct too.

Just my 2 cents.

Edited February 21, 2011 by DebbyNSeyi

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

DOCUMENT ABUSE

ANDRE, WHO IS FROM HAITI, AND MELISSA, A U.S. CITIZEN, APPLIED for a job packing

fruit. The employer, Jack, asked to see Andre’s and Melissa’s work authorization papers.

Andre and Melissa each showed Jack their driver’s license and social security card.

Andre and Melissa both knew that these papers were on the I-9 Employment Eligibility

Verification Form’s list of acceptable identity and work papers. But Jack refused to accept

Andre’s work papers and only accepted Melissa’s. Jack didn’t trust Haitians so he asked

Andre to show him a “green card” too. Andre told Jack that all he had to show was his

driver’s license and social security card. But Jack told Andre that he would not hire him

without seeing a green card.

The next day, Andre called the Office of Special Counsel for Immigration-Related Unfair

Employment Practices for help. (This office, also known as OSC, is a government agency

that looks into charges of immigration-related job discrimination. It has a toll-free

telephone number you can call: 1-800-255-7688.)

An OSC staff person called Jack and explained the correct way to complete the I-9

form. She answered all of Jack’s questions. Jack learned that he should conduct the I-9

process after hiring an employee. He also learned that it is illegal for an employer to ask

to see a worker’s “green card” with the intent of discriminating against the worker

because of his or her national origin or citizenship status. He also learned that the worker

must be allowed to choose which documents to show from the I-9’s list of acceptable

work papers.

Then Jack called Andre and offered him the job and properly completed an I-9 form

with him. Based on what he learned from OSC, Jack decided to pay Andre the wages he

lost for not having been hired at the same time Melissa was.

What should I do if I think

an employer discriminated

against me?

If you think an employer discriminated

against you, get help right

away. The deadline for filing this

type of discrimination complaint

against employers is 180 days from

the day that the discrimination

occurred. Try to find a local legal

aid office or community agency

that will help you.

A government agency in Washington,

D.C., also helps workers

who think they have been discriminated

against. It is called the

Office of Special Counsel for Immigration-

Related Unfair Employment Practices,

or OSC for short. The OSC

will help you free of charge.

http://www.nilc.org/immsemplymnt/ircaempverif/Document-Abuse.pdf

Edited February 21, 2011 by Rebecca Jo

[katiemanny 64]

Personally I don't give a lick if an employer ask me to see my GC for verification as long as I get my position and the money I deserve. What about positions that requires applicants to be US Citizen only? is that discrimination against LPR

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

I am aware of this law, and it's been created to avoid discrimination, which is a good thing. Yet an employer needs to make sure that he's not hiring an illegal alien. As I stated before, it's very easy to create a social security card with Photoshop and a $99 copy machine. It's also a fact that some US states still issue driver licenses without proof of legal presence in the US. Therefore, as an employer, I would make sure that I don't hire an illegal immigrant with fake SS card.

I would not "initiate" the I-9 process before hiring, but I would have a thorough interview with the applicant. During this interview I would ask if he or she is a US citizen, I would ask where he or she were born and raised, went to school, worked, among other things. If the applicant appears to be suspicious in my eyes, and my eyes are the ones who decide whom to hire, I would ask, just ask, if the applicant would mind showing me his or her Green Card. If the applicant does this voluntarily, we do not have a problem. If he or she refuses, I thank the applicant for taking the time and promise to get back to them.

You asked if I would ask a US citizen to show me proof of citizenship. Depends. See, my 21 year-old daughter, blond hair, Cheerleader type, just turned in an application at Blender's (they make juices), a national chain. Not only did they want to see her SS card and driver license, but in addition her birth certificate. Just for kicks and in order to play devil's advocate I told her yesterday that she didn't have to do this, and her answer was as I expected: "I'm not going to argue with them about this; they wanted to see it and I wanted the job, so what's the big deal?"

She's right.

Therefore, if I during the job interview learn that the prospective employer is a US citizen, or at least claims to be one, yet I'm not confident that this is the case, II would ask them of they would mind showing me proof of it. If they agree, we don't have a problem. If they tell me that they don't have to and that the driver license and SS card should be sufficient I will agree with them and thank them for stopping by.

It's really that easy.

I would not discriminate against a person not willing to show me proof of work authorization, but I wouldn't feel comfortably hiring somebody who is giving me an attitude while applying for a job. Imagine their attitude once they've been hired.

At a time where we have tens of millions of unemployed US citizens in the country, employers have a choice on who to hire.

Finally, there's always the option to make US citizenship mandatory. Thus, indicating that the position is open only to US citizens would allow asking for proof of citizenship. This, in fact, is the one and only way for Germans to get the all-important BBG that allows them to become US citizens without losing their German citizenship. They have to prove, really prove, that they cannot get certain jobs for which they are qualified only because they are not US citizens.

Been there, done that, successfully.

I personally buy American wherever I can. I don't buy Levi's jeans anymore, as they are made in China. I don't mind foreign products, as long as they are made in the USA. For the same reason, US citizens have an advantage when applying for a job in the US. It's just a fact of life and I personally don't feel that's unjust, the same way I would understand that a Chinese company in China would rather hire Chinese citizens for a job.

[milimelo 4,191]

I have never had to show my green card to anyone for employment purposes. Driver's license and the SS card (with no restrictions) always sufficed. Why? Because my employer uses e-Verify and had no problems confirming my status.

And yes, once I naturalized, again I showed the DL and SS card and they had no problems to verify my work status.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

I am aware of this law, and it's been created to avoid discrimination, which is a good thing. Yet an employer needs to make sure that he's not hiring an illegal alien. As I stated before, it's very easy to create a social security card with Photoshop and a $99 copy machine. It's also a fact that some US states still issue driver licenses without proof of legal presence in the US. Therefore, as an employer, I would make sure that I don't hire an illegal immigrant with fake SS card.

I would not "initiate" the I-9 process before hiring, but I would have a thorough interview with the applicant. During this interview I would ask if he or she is a US citizen, I would ask where he or she were born and raised, went to school, worked, among other things. If the applicant appears to be suspicious in my eyes, and my eyes are the ones who decide whom to hire, I would ask, just ask, if the applicant would mind showing me his or her Green Card. If the applicant does this voluntarily, we do not have a problem. If he or she refuses, I thank the applicant for taking the time and promise to get back to them.

You asked if I would ask a US citizen to show me proof of citizenship. Depends. See, my 21 year-old daughter, blond hair, Cheerleader type, just turned in an application at Blender's (they make juices), a national chain. Not only did they want to see her SS card and driver license, but in addition her birth certificate. Just for kicks and in order to play devil's advocate I told her yesterday that she didn't have to do this, and her answer was as I expected: "I'm not going to argue with them about this; they wanted to see it and I wanted the job, so what's the big deal?"

She's right.

Therefore, if I during the job interview learn that the prospective employer is a US citizen, or at least claims to be one, yet I'm not confident that this is the case, II would ask them of they would mind showing me proof of it. If they agree, we don't have a problem. If they tell me that they don't have to and that the driver license and SS card should be sufficient I will agree with them and thank them for stopping by.

It's really that easy.

I would not discriminate against a person not willing to show me proof of work authorization, but I wouldn't feel comfortably hiring somebody who is giving me an attitude while applying for a job. Imagine their attitude once they've been hired.

At a time where we have tens of millions of unemployed US citizens in the country, employers have a choice on who to hire.

Finally, there's always the option to make US citizenship mandatory. Thus, indicating that the position is open only to US citizens would allow asking for proof of citizenship. This, in fact, is the one and only way for Germans to get the all-important BBG that allows them to become US citizens without losing their German citizenship. They have to prove, really prove, that they cannot get certain jobs for which they are qualified only because they are not US citizens.

Been there, done that, successfully.

I personally buy American wherever I can. I don't buy Levi's jeans anymore, as they are made in China. I don't mind foreign products, as long as they are made in the USA. For the same reason, US citizens have an advantage when applying for a job in the US. It's just a fact of life and I personally don't feel that's unjust, the same way I would understand that a Chinese company in China would rather hire Chinese citizens for a job.

And as I said, you should be vigorously prosecuted.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Personally I don't give a lick if an employer ask me to see my GC for verification as long as I get my position and the money I deserve. What about positions that requires applicants to be US Citizen only? is that discrimination against LPR

Supposedly, those type of positions require security clearances that the US government is not able to grant to anyone but USC's. The Bureau of the Public Debt is a major employer in this area so I know of what you speak.

If you don't mind an employer asking you to prove yourself, that is your prerogative. As for me and my husband, we feel we have already jumped through all the necessary hoops. My husband has an unrestricted SS card because he applied for a visa abroad; was admitted legally; and adjusted his status to permanent resident. The Social Security Administration would not have given my husband an unrestricted card if he were not a permanent resident. The state DMV would not have given my husband a driver's license if he did not prove legal presence PLUS state residency.

*shrug*

It is certainly up to each person to do as they wish. As I said, if it doesn't bother you to show your greencard, then show it. I do think though, that the longer you are in this country, work, pay your taxes, and otherwise be a contributing member of society, you'll be less amenable to having to "prove" yourself beyond the letter of the law. After all, you have already done everything by the book to insure your legal status in our country. I don't think you should degrade yourself by allowing people to step on the rights you earned.

But I'm an old hippie...........so that's just how I roll.

I have never had to show my green card to anyone for employment purposes. Driver's license and the SS card (with no restrictions) always sufficed. Why? Because my employer uses e-Verify and had no problems confirming my status.

And yes, once I naturalized, again I showed the DL and SS card and they had no problems to verify my work status.

Right. That's how it should work. Those documents should suffice, and E-Verify acts as an additional level of assurance.