Anyone refused entry under one year on greencard

[himher 634]

I have a problem with members dictating "what the rules of the green card" are on this board. There is a fine line between "reside" and "live" that is recognized by all of the government agencies (including the IRS)

The "rules of the green card" are clearly spelled out in State Department and USCIS guidelines

1. Maintain a residence "that you do not intend to abandon"

2. Travel outside the US for "up to 1 year" without a re-entry permit

Evidence of "maintaining a residence that you do not intend to abandon"

-Property owned. This may be home, vehicles, etc

-Utilities, etc

-Taxes and tax filing. Paying state and local income taxes are given much weight

-Children enrolled in local school

-Financial records, banking, credit cards, other business tied to your home address

Travelling outside the US for up to one year is self-evident.

Everything we own is in the US and I work overseas. It's a gray area. My wife, the LPR, has "NOT ALLOWED TO WORK" on her visa in her passport. Is she a "resident" here? She is not. She is allowed to come here as a "dependent, not allowed to work". Her ties, and mine, are to the US.

The burden of proof is on us true. Do not be so quick to jump on here and judge. I live and work with hundreds of expats. SO FAR the expats I work with, like us, get scrutinized carefully but we are allowed to pass in and out with our families. So far.

I'm not sure I completely understand what you're planning.

You said that you and your wife are planning to remain working overseas (which to me also reads as "live") but that you plan to "enter the US at least once a year".. which sounds to me (or reads rather) that you are intending to "pop by the US" to make sure that you retain residency... which is against the rules of the greencard.

The reason this matters is because you may not have the card revoked simply because you were gone for 6 months or more, but instead because they sense a pattern to your trips (and this could be the time you go on holidays (not word) and you're gone less than 2 weeks or something.. it just happened to be when CBP "noticed" your pattern/s) and that you are not following the rules of the greencard which are that you must RESIDE in the US... this means the number of months out of the US should be less than the years in the US.

It is completely up to the CBP officers discretion to determine whether s/he thinks you have abandoned your status in the US. Typically they will revoke the card and you will have a court case to attend to "fight" the revocation at which time you will plead your case that you don't live overseas. However that said, given the situation you describe you are planning, I honestly can't see the judge ruling that you HAVEN'T been living overseas seeing you work there...

I have also read that continuing to pay US taxes, maintain a residence (house) there help in showing you have been maintaining residency and those are things you could show if you're having an issue.. but it honestly sounds to me that you are breaking the GC rules by trying to live overseas whilst having a US greencard.

Here's a few links for you:

- http://www.antaoandchuang.com/i-keeping.html - shows ways to show CBP that you are maintaining residency and talks about cases like you working overseas

- http://www.kkeane.info/all-faqs/green-cards.html - random Q&A, a few about losing GC

Anyway they don't really answer your questions. I tried a quick google but found nothing specific to what you're asking but I did want to voice (like other have) that what you *appear* to be planning sounds like you might encounter a few issues so I would instead get a re-entry permit and plan on immigrating (properly) before it expires.

[TBoneTX 43,059]

Just an update on the case. [...]

They DO respond, si man! Was the person to whom you spoke an actual CBP agent, or just a phone operator? If you didn't get a name ("Agent Whoever"), I'd also make a couple of calls to actual CBP ports, to see whether the answers are identical to the one that you received. Better to be safe than sorry, si man.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

I have a problem with members dictating "what the rules of the green card" are on this board. There is a fine line between "reside" and "live" that is recognized by all of the government agencies (including the IRS)

The "rules of the green card" are clearly spelled out in State Department and USCIS guidelines

1. Maintain a residence "that you do not intend to abandon"

2. Travel outside the US for "up to 1 year" without a re-entry permit

Evidence of "maintaining a residence that you do not intend to abandon"

-Property owned. This may be home, vehicles, etc

-Utilities, etc

-Taxes and tax filing. Paying state and local income taxes are given much weight

-Children enrolled in local school

-Financial records, banking, credit cards, other business tied to your home address

Travelling outside the US for up to one year is self-evident.

Everything we own is in the US and I work overseas. It's a gray area. My wife, the LPR, has "NOT ALLOWED TO WORK" on her visa in her passport. Is she a "resident" here? She is not. She is allowed to come here as a "dependent, not allowed to work". Her ties, and mine, are to the US.

The burden of proof is on us true. Do not be so quick to jump on here and judge. I live and work with hundreds of expats. SO FAR the expats I work with, like us, get scrutinized carefully but we are allowed to pass in and out with our families. So far.

I find it interesting that you quoted my post... which didn't go into details about what the rules are.. just a couple here and there. I even posted links on how to make sure you can prove you never really "left" the US... which you then typed out in point format.

Perhaps your indignation was with the 1 year thing? Yes you can be out UP TO 1 year WITHOUT NEEDING A RE-ENTRY PERMIT, but the State (though I can't find it right now) and USCIS websites clearly state that ANY absence from the US CAN be, at CBP's discretion, determined to be you abandoning the GC. Just because you come by before the year is up does not mean they will say to you "oh goodie, you're back with 2 months to spare, jolly good, not an issue". If you are determined to have abandoned your GC you will then have to appear before an immigration judge to fight your case. THEY (CBP) will determine whether they think you've abandoned and in the OP's case (and another thread a while back) they WILL look at your travel habits and if they see you're constantly in and out they WILL get suspicious.

Here are some links:

- http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=3f443a4107083210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=3f443a4107083210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD see "Remain outside of the United States for more than 1 year without obtaining a reentry permit or returning resident visa. However, in determining whether your status has been abandoned, any length of absence from the United States may be considered, even if less than 1 year"

- http://www.americanlaw.com/maintlpr.html this is long winded but actually mentions the laws etc involved.

-

I am using "you" generally, not you specifically.

In your specific situation, you mention that it's YOU that's working overseas and that your LPR wife just goes with you. So SHE doesn't work overseas but her husband does, AND she goes with her husband each time. It would look like (to me) that if given the chance to stay overseas you would, and she would go with you and as such SHE would be abandoning her residence.

It's obvious that you're freaking out about it (understandably) because its a scary thing. I am not a CBP officer. I can't tell you how s/he will be one day from the next, but I DO know that multiple trips outside of the US look suspicious and eventually it MIGHT land you in Court to fight an abandonment of LPR "charge".

Also, the naturalisation clock, from what I've read stops or resets depending on how long the LPR's been out of the country. So if your wife WAS planning LPR, she might have a longer wait in for her because of the extended stays out of the US. I say MIGHT. I am NOT your lawyer and neither is anyone on here (even though there are a couple of lawyers on the boards). If you're worried about ANYTHING speak to an immigration lawyer to discuss your personal situation and what they think/recommend.

[SimranS 9]

Hi HimHer,

You mentioned that you and the expats you work with have so far been allowed entry to the US. Would you mind telling us what the average length of your "stay" abroad usually is, and what questions the CBP officers normally ask you? There are many others in a situation similar to yours, and this would be very valuable info to have. Seeing how actual CBP officers react in different situations would be practically far more useful than just theoretical guesses others are giving. Thanks.

[himher 634]

Most return twice a year and most maintain homes or other residencies in the US.

In our case we left in Jan of last year and returned in Dec. That was pushing it. We left in Jan of this year and returned a week ago. When we arrived the IO asked a couple questions about my work in Saudi (what do I do, length of contract which I told him I work in the oil refinery there and it renews annually) then asked me when she would be returning. I told him that she would return to Saudi after her biometrics/paperwork was finished on her lifting conditions and that was pretty much it. He stamped us and waved us through.

As far as lifting conditions goes we have our 1-yr extension and waiting on biometrics. There have been no issues with the process so far.

I know there are many others in this situation so if there are any issues (real, not theoritical) then it will be good to share them. Most on here would just as soon see our spouses green cards "yanked" for "not following the rules". (laughing) we already did the "proper immigration" thing...

Hi HimHer,

You mentioned that you and the expats you work with have so far been allowed entry to the US. Would you mind telling us what the average length of your "stay" abroad usually is, and what questions the CBP officers normally ask you? There are many others in a situation similar to yours, and this would be very valuable info to have. Seeing how actual CBP officers react in different situations would be practically far more useful than just theoretical guesses others are giving. Thanks.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

I agree that the Residency requirement isn't spelled out well in the books, which isn't surprising, as it was written by Government drones.

One can only hope the up-and-coming immigration reform will correct that. An easy solution would be to allow LPRs an absence up to 6 months, after that the Green Card is gone for good.

No resident should need a vacation longer than 6 months, and no resident should be working or going to school outside the US of A as well. In this case, an LPR joins her husband who is working out of the country. She should be allowed to stay there up to 6 months (total), after which she would lose her status.

Since it's not spelled out like this, it's up to the discretion of the CBP officer at the POE to determine whether or not the LPR has maintained residence. For me, having a home or a car or extra clothes, and paying taxes (which is required by law anyway) would not be sufficient.

Good that I'm not a CBP Officer, as I would weed any LPR out who isn't physically present in the US for most of the year.

[himher 634]

Good thing for you I'm not one either. Mainly because I am not in favor of giving green cards to illegal immigrants before they complete their jail time and serve out their 10-year ban and would weed out those who stay and live here illegally then find a US citizen to lay up with to maintain / protect their illegal status. I also dam sure wouldn't make a former illegal immigrant a citizen.

I guess we are both fortunate - LOL

I agree that the Residency requirement isn't spelled out well in the books, which isn't surprising, as it was written by Government drones.

One can only hope the up-and-coming immigration reform will correct that. An easy solution would be to allow LPRs an absence up to 6 months, after that the Green Card is gone for good.

No resident should need a vacation longer than 6 months, and no resident should be working or going to school outside the US of A as well. In this case, an LPR joins her husband who is working out of the country. She should be allowed to stay there up to 6 months (total), after which she would lose her status.

Since it's not spelled out like this, it's up to the discretion of the CBP officer at the POE to determine whether or not the LPR has maintained residence. For me, having a home or a car or extra clothes, and paying taxes (which is required by law anyway) would not be sufficient.

Good that I'm not a CBP Officer, as I would weed any LPR out who isn't physically present in the US for most of the year.

Edited June 11, 2010 by himher

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

I agree with you.

However, the first thing you would have to do is make being in the country without authorization a crime. Up to this point in time it isn't. For that very reason there's no 10-year or even 10-minute prison sentence, no court date, no due process at all. Somebody who overstayed their visa is guilty of the same thing as a guy you invited to a party and won't leave in time. They're simply be asked to leave, yet no law has been broken due to this.

In contrast, illegals (people who entered the country illegally, meaning without permission of the US Government), did commit a crime. They cannot adjust status, cannot cannot get a Green Card, and cannot become US citizens either.

The difference is easily understood, once you put your mind to it. But, again, I agree with you anyway: make out-of-status a misdemeanor or crime and I'll vote for it next time around.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Just Bob

[SPSguy 18]

A freind of mine, who is married to a USC working overseas, will be entering the US on June 27. She had been out for 12 months.

We'll see what happens when she tries to re enter on her green card.

Btw folks, I don't see how the issue of ILLEGALS came up under this topic, since it's written out clearly that re entry is permitted with a greencard without a re entry permit. Wherefore all entries after 6 months may be subject to "additional" questioning by the CBP, the law clearly states that a greencard may be used for all entries under one year.

[himher 634]

<grins> my point was made and Dr Overstay above got it.......LOL

Now allow us both to soak up our good fortune!

A freind of mine, who is married to a USC working overseas, will be entering the US on June 27. She had been out for 12 months.

We'll see what happens when she tries to re enter on her green card.

Btw folks, I don't see how the issue of ILLEGALS came up under this topic, since it's written out clearly that re entry is permitted with a greencard without a re entry permit. Wherefore all entries after 6 months may be subject to "additional" questioning by the CBP, the law clearly states that a greencard may be used for all entries under one year.

[SimranS 9]

Himher,

Thanks for the info. I agree it is awfully hypocritical for someone who used a visitor visa to live in USA to talk about "weeding out" people who have followed the legal immigration process and need to spend time abroad. Anyway even if Mr. Overstay did become a CBP officer, he wouldn't have the final word on whose GC gets "yanked" because every returning LPR is entitled to a hearing with an immigration judge.

This is something very important to remember for everyone in this situation: never agree to sign an abandonment of residence even if the CBP officer asks you to. You have the right to ask for a hearing before a judge, and the burden of proof will be on the government to show that you have abandoned your status (See the "American Law" link posted above by Vanessa&Tony). And yes, and judge will consider your ties to the US like property and tax paying and not just the physical length of absence alone.

BTW, does the IO write your wife's length of absence in her passport every time she enters?

[himher 634]

Mr Overstay is German and forgets that we do things differently here.

The IO entered the length of absence last December only - When we re-entered in Atlanta in early June the I/O just stamped the passport with the returning resident stamp, asked (me) a couple questions, and sent us through.

We consulted a Houston immigration attorney before we left and we are following the instructions exactly as outlined. We would never sign a document like that without going through the full process and this is excellent advice for not just this situation but any situation where they stretch the interpretation of the rules and try to get you to sign your right to a hearing away.

Himher,

Thanks for the info. I agree it is awfully hypocritical for someone who used a visitor visa to live in USA to talk about "weeding out" people who have followed the legal immigration process and need to spend time abroad. Anyway even if Mr. Overstay did become a CBP officer, he wouldn't have the final word on whose GC gets "yanked" because every returning LPR is entitled to a hearing with an immigration judge.

This is something very important to remember for everyone in this situation: never agree to sign an abandonment of residence even if the CBP officer asks you to. You have the right to ask for a hearing before a judge, and the burden of proof will be on the government to show that you have abandoned your status (See the "American Law" link posted above by Vanessa&Tony). And yes, and judge will consider your ties to the US like property and tax paying and not just the physical length of absence alone.

BTW, does the IO write your wife's length of absence in her passport every time she enters?

[SPSguy 18]

my friend will be entering in a week after being absent for one year to be with her husband who works overseas. She will be entering with her daughter who has registered as a student in the U.S.

I don't think she will face any trouble from IOs for the simple fact that she will have her daughter with her. The daughter is a US citizen and was a registered student in the US. Her husband still works overseas.

I think anyone that will be entering with their USC spouse or child will be okay under one year.

Will keep everyone posted next week.

[himher 634]

Info like this is very helpful and we appreciate the update. We are in the middle of lifting conditions - biometrics next week then we are back overseas until the end of the year. If we ever have any issue or trouble with the back and forth we will post.

my friend will be entering in a week after being absent for one year to be with her husband who works overseas. She will be entering with her daughter who has registered as a student in the U.S.

I don't think she will face any trouble from IOs for the simple fact that she will have her daughter with her. The daughter is a US citizen and was a registered student in the US. Her husband still works overseas.

I think anyone that will be entering with their USC spouse or child will be okay under one year.

Will keep everyone posted next week.

[Boiler 43,438]

It was not information.

It was opinion.