Visa Denied

[coraliesolms 47]

I am sorry for your heartache, its good you contacted ur congressional liason, they will be able to proved answers, or at least point you in the right direction.

good luck, and keep us informed!

[Gene & Susan 1]

Had Susan been involved before in any US visa application? Was she of good standing in Nairobi? What part of the city did she live in? Did she give any indication whatever, even to one of her friends, that she was really interested in the green card, not you. This happens quite often in Kenya - joking about finding a guy through whom to get a visa - and the consulate does check around a bit.

I'd say submitting 190 pages of proofs was quite overdone and may indeed have appeared to be an effort to overwhelm with paper that no one in the consulate could possibly have had time to read.

Susan has never been married before, she has never attempted a visa before, she has a clear police record, and clean health. She does not live in Nairobi, rather she lives with her brother and sister in a nice duplex in Kisumu, Kenya.

[Gene & Susan 1]

Here is a transcript from memory from Pauline Susan of her 2 interviews:

First Interview, March 29, 2010

Interviewer: what"s your fiancee"s name?Gene Edward Mccluney

Interviewer: where did you meet him? In a online dating site www.Afrorormance.com

Interviewer: When did you meet him? In August 2009

Interviewer: Have met him in person? yes have met him in person

Interviewer: When did you meet him in person? In October 2009

Interviewer: What does your fiancee do? His a commercial Photographer

Interviewer: When did you decided that you wanted to get marry him? In October 2009 when I met him in person and he engaged me.

Interviewer: I find that too soon you only knew him for two months, He came to see in less than two weeks and you decided you wanted to marry him? I decided to marry him because we understand and love each other very much.

Interviewer: look here Madam I find that time too soon? I love him that is why I decided to marry him.

Interviewer: Does he have children? yes he has children

Interviewer: which ages? 29yrs and 18yrs

Interviewer: Has your Fiancee Ever Been married Before? yes his been married before

Interviewer: how many times? Thrice

Interviewer: Three times? yes three times

Interviewer: Where was his last wife from? Zambia

Interviewer: And the two first ones? Frothsmith

Interviewer: yes? U.S.A

Interviewer: Do you have any Relatives and friends in the United states? Yes I have a sister In the United states.

Interviewer: How did she get there? she went through Fiancee visa on afroromance.com

Interviewer: Which Other dating site were you a member? Intercupid.com, Datanta.com, singleburg.com

Interviewer: How many siblings do you have? Five including me.

Interviewer: where are the others? I have a brother in Thailand

Interviewer: What is he doing there? Working

Interviewer: And the others? I stay with a brother and sister in Kisumu

Interviewer: How many times has he send you money? since October 2009

Interviewer: what"s your monthly salary? At the moment am a volunteer, Our contract ended last year march But am still working there.

Interviewer: Do you have any children? No i don't have children

Interviewer: have Ever been married before? No I never been married.

gave me a letter asking for additional Evidence of Relationship.

pauline: we talked most of time on yahoo messenger with voice so getting is Records is hard? Just go and Retrieve the calls.

Interviewer: Lets continue from there next time, Is a week okay with you? Tell mi when you want back.

Interviewwer: come back on 6th of April

pauline: Thank you

Second Follow-up Interview from April 6, 2010

Interviewer: how are you madam? Am fine

Interviewer: You said you met your fiancee through? I met him through Afroromance,com

Interviewer: you said you met him have in September? I met him in August and in person in October.

Interviewer: you said you have a sister in the united states ? yes I have a sister in the united states.

Interviewer: why did your fiancee send you 10 cards at onces? can you explain that? The lady at the window 3 told mi to put all cards in one big Envelope, I had them in three different envelopes and loose ones,{ showed him the two empty Express envelope i had}

Interviewer: why did you fiancee write your name on your cards Envelope and on the big Express mail Envelope and yet he was sending it to you? I don't know

Interviewer: why did he send you his photo portrait? to see him even tho I had his seen his photos at Afroromance .com

Interviewer: I have gone through the Evidence { Emails from Gene to pauline and pauline to Gene, phone Records from yahoo with voice, emails from Gene"s friends, Text messages print out, Text messages logs, cards and photos} and have found out that your stories are Different, so your fiancee can applea to the united states within three months and the

united states will get back to us,

pauline: please repeat that again

Interviewer: am saying have I gone through your Evidence and your stories are different, I know you know your Fiancee and have met him in person but your stories are different, so your Fiancee can applea to the United states and the united states will get back to us,

Gave me back ma Documents and I letter and I left.

[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

You need to comb the chat files she took looking for where she thought something was different. Maybe when she first saw the words love or marriage in the logs ? Did you really propose online ?

[Old Dominion 26]

I'd suggest visiting her again. Meanwhile, do what you can to get USCIS to contact you as soon as possible about appealing the decision. The file is on its way back, and it will take at least a year for USCIS to contact you, maybe even longer, if you don't follow up ASAP with them.

The short time involved - meeting her online and then proposing only a few weeks later, suggests someone in Kenya is in a real hurry to get a visa.

[Gene & Susan 1]

I'd suggest visiting her again. Meanwhile, do what you can to get USCIS to contact you as soon as possible about appealing the decision. The file is on its way back, and it will take at least a year for USCIS to contact you, maybe even longer, if you don't follow up ASAP with them.

The short time involved - meeting her online and then proposing only a few weeks later, suggests someone in Kenya is in a real hurry to get a visa.

It was about 2 1/2 months into our chatting that I visited her in Kenya and proposed. She did not propose, nor suggest it, it was I, the USA citizen that did. All she did was accept.

[pushbrk 12,146]

It was about 2 1/2 months into our chatting that I visited her in Kenya and proposed. She did not propose, nor suggest it, it was I, the USA citizen that did. All she did was accept.

It does sound like the whole set of circumstances with your past marriages short courtship, her sister already in the USA through a K1 process and one in-person meeting were the red flags that counted against you. Unless you can figure it out yourself, you may not know what didn't match in your stories until several months from now when you hear from USCIS. If you can't keep the case at the Consulate then I expect that to be together in the USA, you'll eventually need to go spend some significant time with her, during which you marry. Then, during or at the end of the spouse visa process, get there again for more than a few days.

How long was your visit and what are your ages?

[sachinky 464]

^ This. And to me, it seems like a red flag that her sister was able to secure a USC fiance and K-1 visa through the same website that your fiancee now conveniently found you through.

Not saying that that is the case, but you have to think like a CO.

Edited April 7, 2010 by sachinky

[DanielParul 50]

Here is a transcript from memory from Pauline Susan of her 2 interviews:

First Interview, March 29, 2010

Interviewer: what"s your fiancee"s name?Gene Edward Mccluney

Interviewer: where did you meet him? In a online dating site www.Afrorormance.com

Interviewer: When did you meet him? In August 2009

Interviewer: Have met him in person? yes have met him in person

Interviewer: When did you meet him in person? In October 2009

Interviewer: What does your fiancee do? His a commercial Photographer

Interviewer: When did you decided that you wanted to get marry him? In October 2009 when I met him in person and he engaged me.

Interviewer: I find that too soon you only knew him for two months, He came to see in less than two weeks and you decided you wanted to marry him? I decided to marry him because we understand and love each other very much.

Interviewer: look here Madam I find that time too soon? I love him that is why I decided to marry him.

Interviewer: Does he have children? yes he has children

Interviewer: which ages? 29yrs and 18yrs

Interviewer: Has your Fiancee Ever Been married Before? yes his been married before

Interviewer: how many times? Thrice

Interviewer: Three times? yes three times

Interviewer: Where was his last wife from? Zambia

Interviewer: And the two first ones? Frothsmith

Interviewer: yes? U.S.A

Interviewer: Do you have any Relatives and friends in the United states? Yes I have a sister In the United states.

Interviewer: How did she get there? she went through Fiancee visa on afroromance.com

Interviewer: Which Other dating site were you a member? Intercupid.com, Datanta.com, singleburg.com

Interviewer: How many siblings do you have? Five including me.

Interviewer: where are the others? I have a brother in Thailand

Interviewer: What is he doing there? Working

Interviewer: And the others? I stay with a brother and sister in Kisumu

Interviewer: How many times has he send you money? since October 2009

Interviewer: what"s your monthly salary? At the moment am a volunteer, Our contract ended last year march But am still working there.

Interviewer: Do you have any children? No i don't have children

Interviewer: have Ever been married before? No I never been married.

gave me a letter asking for additional Evidence of Relationship.

pauline: we talked most of time on yahoo messenger with voice so getting is Records is hard? Just go and Retrieve the calls.

Interviewer: Lets continue from there next time, Is a week okay with you? Tell mi when you want back.

Interviewwer: come back on 6th of April

pauline: Thank you

Second Follow-up Interview from April 6, 2010

Interviewer: how are you madam? Am fine

Interviewer: You said you met your fiancee through? I met him through Afroromance,com

Interviewer: you said you met him have in September? I met him in August and in person in October.

Interviewer: you said you have a sister in the united states ? yes I have a sister in the united states.

Interviewer: why did your fiancee send you 10 cards at onces? can you explain that? The lady at the window 3 told mi to put all cards in one big Envelope, I had them in three different envelopes and loose ones,{ showed him the two empty Express envelope i had}

Interviewer: why did you fiancee write your name on your cards Envelope and on the big Express mail Envelope and yet he was sending it to you? I don't know

Interviewer: why did he send you his photo portrait? to see him even tho I had his seen his photos at Afroromance .com

Interviewer: I have gone through the Evidence { Emails from Gene to pauline and pauline to Gene, phone Records from yahoo with voice, emails from Gene"s friends, Text messages print out, Text messages logs, cards and photos} and have found out that your stories are Different, so your fiancee can applea to the united states within three months and the

united states will get back to us,

pauline: please repeat that again

Interviewer: am saying have I gone through your Evidence and your stories are different, I know you know your Fiancee and have met him in person but your stories are different, so your Fiancee can applea to the United states and the united states will get back to us,

Gave me back ma Documents and I letter and I left.

[Gene & Susan 1]

^ This. And to me, it seems like a red flag that her sister was able to secure a USC fiance and K-1 visa through the same website that your fiancee now conveniently found you through.

Not saying that that is the case, but you have to think like a CO.

Undoubtedly Both sisters were looking for husbands beyond the borders of their countries. I don't see anything wrong with that, as a lot of traditional Kenyan men (not all) are very much into polygamy, and this does not go well with Christian women, such as my fiancee. Its not our country alone, rather it is our marriage values that are appealing...(one woman-one man). Susan was not restricting her search to any country..it just so happens I am from USA.

By the same token, almost everyone here on VisaJourney has probably used one of the online match/dating services to seek out a suitable partner...its not rare or unusual. And, for that matter, since her Sister is so happily married here in the USA, to a great guy, why wouldn't that influence Susan to try to find the same happiness? I don't see anything wrong with this.

Edited April 7, 2010 by gene mccluney

[DanielParul 50]

Undoubtedly Both sisters were looking for husbands beyond the borders of their countries. I don't see anything wrong with that, as a lot of traditional Kenyan men (not all) are very much into polygamy, and this does not go well with Christian women, such as my fiancee. Its not our country alone, rather it is our marriage values that are appealing...(one woman-one man). Susan was not restricting her search to any country..it just so happens I am from USA.

By the same token, almost everyone here on VisaJourney has probably used one of the online match/dating services to seek out a suitable partner...its not rare or unusual.

We understand that you are upset. Nobody here is trying to judge. You just have to see it from the CO's point of view so that you are better prepared. You know your relationship is genuine but a CO will look at every relationship with suspicion, thats what they are there for. Understand that, think like them and you will be better prepared.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Undoubtedly Both sisters were looking for husbands beyond the borders of their countries. I don't see anything wrong with that, as a lot of traditional Kenyan men (not all) are very much into polygamy, and this does not go well with Christian women, such as my fiancee. Its not our country alone, rather it is our marriage values that are appealing...(one woman-one man). Susan was not restricting her search to any country..it just so happens I am from USA.

By the same token, almost everyone here on VisaJourney has probably used one of the online match/dating services to seek out a suitable partner...its not rare or unusual. And, for that matter, since her Sister is so happily married here in the USA, to a great guy, why wouldn't that influence Susan to try to find the same happiness? I don't see anything wrong with this.

It's a problem because it raises the possibility that the relationship is primarily for the purpose of immigration, which is specifically prohibited under US immigration law. I'm not questioning your motives, and neither is the consulate. They are questioning her motives, and they think you might be an unwitting accomplice in a plan to gain immigration benefits. Regardless of how much you know your relationship is sincere, consulates in 3rd world countries deal with a great deal of immigration fraud. The only way they can separate the wheat from the chaff is by the evidence they see. What they see in your case is a petitioner who was previously married to a girl from a 3rd world country, and is now divorced and that girl is a permanent resident in the US. Now they see the same thing about to happen again, and they're wondering if you aren't a one-man immigration portal to the US, even if this isn't your intention.

Let's look at the reality of this situation. The US has a relatively high standard of living, especially compared to 3rd world countries. Because of this, a LOT of people want to immigrate to the US. In order to prevent the country from being inundated by the world's poor, the US government has placed strict quotas on immigration, and try to give preference to those that can contribute to the nation's economy, and help maintain the high standard of living for everyone. They make a special exception to these quotas and rules for American citizens who want to marry someone from another country. This is a courtesy they extend on behalf of the US citizen. Because there is a high potential for this exception to be abused, they have to scrutinize cases for signs of fraud. Unfortunately, those signs exist in your case because of your prior history with immigration by marriage, and because of how you met your fiancee. They suspect her first priority is getting out of her country, and not necessarily having a sincere relationship with you.

I don't know how many people on VJ met through an online dating service. However, I know that it's not "almost everyone", and it's probably not even most. That's hardly the point, though. A consulate in a high fraud country is suspicious of every relationship, even if the couple met by chance while the American citizen was a tourist in the beneficiary's country. The level of suspicion may be higher if it looks like the beneficiary was shopping for foreign spouse.

I'm not judging your case. I don't know you or your fiancee. I'm only explaining why the consulate was suspicious, and why they ultimately denied the visa. If your relationship is sincere, you'll weather this storm. Most people who are persistent will eventually succeed. More visits, more time together, perhaps getting married and filing for a CR1, and collecting a lot more evidence. These all can improve your chances of succeeding next time.

[Dakine 26]

"And, for that matter, since her Sister is so happily married here in the USA, to a great guy, why wouldn't that influence Susan to try to find the same happiness? I don't see anything wrong with this."

No nothing wrong but COs appear to be looking for being in "Love" to top off a bonafide relationship.

[Gene & Susan 1]

"And, for that matter, since her Sister is so happily married here in the USA, to a great guy, why wouldn't that influence Susan to try to find the same happiness? I don't see anything wrong with this."

No nothing wrong but COs appear to be looking for being in "Love" to top off a bonafide relationship.

We ARE deeply in love, I can hardly bear this delay, and neither can she, but we are resolved to doing whatever it takes, and waiting as long as it takes to be together.

The fact that we discovered each other thru online dating is actually irrelevant, it is the process we undertook after we met our emails, chats and voice chats that led us together and ultimately to my traveling to Kenya and my proposal of marriage.

[Dakine 26]

We ARE deeply in love, I can hardly bear this delay, and neither can she, but we are resolved to doing whatever it takes, and waiting as long as it takes to be together.

The fact that we discovered each other thru online dating is actually irrelevant, it is the process we undertook after we met our emails, chats and voice chats that led us together and ultimately to my traveling to Kenya and my proposal of marriage.

You know you are in love. She knows, but was that shown to the CO also ?

Doesn't look like it.

Get your senator working on finding out the exact reason you guys were denied.

Been there done that. Mine was lack of pictures.