Cheating Fiance

[Ban Hammer 14,274]

So you tried it huh charles?

Physically sure it's possible, but it's the weirdness factor I couldn't deal with. Another girl though, not such a big problem, lol

just making a suggestion.

[FortLaudy 10]

just making a suggestion.

Yes, I would suggest too to the OP to make the same suggestion to his fiancee, ask her how she feels about threesomes since she's so "open" when it comes to cheating on him, see if she likes that idea? If she's not up for it, move on, she's not open-minded enough

[one...two...tree 2,762]

say what you will about stereotypes but more often than not they do tend to be true. With that said I dont see the problem with this stereotype because it doesnt take away from the fact that there are great woman throughout the world but if you head towards the Philippines the odds are in your favor.

Some Filipinas think kanos make more faithful, loving husbands than Filipinos, but I'm not buying that BS either.

[SunDrop 59]

The clubbing is cultural, the willingness to give it up is there now and the response to 'seeing other people' was nearly instantaneous.

Is there any way you can travel out there? I think it would go a really long way to help reassure you and start rebuilding what you had that made you want to spend the rest of your life together. And these things are SO hard to cope with when you're not in the same space as the other person.

Contrary to everyone here, I think it sounds that she's making the right noises and her remorse is genuine. She needs to be patient with you, allow you to ask any questions or talk about it when you're ready and deal with the guilt that she'll be reminded of every single time you raise it. If you think she's made of tough enough material to cope with that, then give her a chance to make her wrong right by you.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Some Filipinas think kanos make more faithful, loving husbands than Filipinos, but I'm not buying that BS either.

No matter how much we love them (we do), and they love us (they do), in the end, they only want to improve their lives, and the lives of their families. Kano means two things: $$$ and a green card.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

No matter how much we love them (we do), and they love us (they do), in the end, they only want to improve their lives, and the lives of their families. Kano means two things: $$ and a green card.

[mawilson 2,133]

Yes, I would suggest too to the OP to make the same suggestion to his fiancee, ask her how she feels about threesomes since she's so "open" when it comes to cheating on him, see if she likes that idea? If she's not up for it, move on, she's not open-minded enough

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Well, here's the latest update.

I wrote her a letter and decided to give her an ultimatum. I think this was the best choice, because it was the best opportunity to put all the cards on the table and give her the opportunity to be up front about where she is on this.

I basically told her that trust is not freely given. It was broken, and it has to be rebuilt. I told her that going to nightclubs doesn't rebuild trust, and that it's not fair to put me in a position where I'm anxious and stressed out. I pointed out that two months is hardly a long period of time, and that staying away from nightclubs is an awfully small sacrifice to make for someone you want to spend your life with.

At that, I said that I think it's time that we consider seeing other people, since something motivated her to stray in the first place.

Shortly after that, she sent me a text message urgently trying to get in touch with me. Now, I don't like to play games, but I didn't respond to her because I honestly didn't know what to say. And I considered that responding might inevitably put us in this vicious cycle that would never end. However ... she told me unambiguously that it's not even close to worth it for her to lose me by going out clubbing, and that she would certainly give it up.

Well ... I responded. I told her that since the trust was broken, I can't even have any way of knowing whether or not she's going to clubs behind my back or not. I said I don't want to go through these two months wondering. She responded that she'll skype with me from her home before she goes to bed each night to prove it ... she said she'll do whatever it takes to earn my trust, even if it takes years.

Now I have a bit of a dilemma. The bottom line is that I'm deeply in love with this girl. I know it sounds bad that she goes out clubbing, but honestly, that's part of the culture in her part of the world, and even my most conservative friends when clubbing in that city. I hardly ever go out to clubs at all here in the states, but I went often there, because that's just what people do. So I can't blame her for feeling the peer pressure to go clubbing ... it doesn't make her slutty (as some have asserted). But, she can avoid going pretty easily if she values this relationship. She's made a commitment to me not to go to nightclubs, and provided a method of accountability. I think that means something, because if she really wanted to see other people, she would have pounced on my assertion that was for the best.

I do know her pretty well. Although it was surprising that she strayed, she was never like that before. I've talked to other boyfriends in her past, and she was always conservative and faithful. She was certainly always faithful to me before, even when I took a trip to the states for three weeks. As I mentioned ... I knew when something had happened, there was a sudden guilt that was evident all over her face. A bad girl doesn't exhibit that kind of guilt ... I know, because I've been with some bad girls. No remorse at all, it's normal for them to sleep around a lot with complete selfish disregard for anyone else. I think to err is human, and my fiance made a mistake (and a big one, at that). If she really wanted to keep seeing other guys, wouldn't she just choose that (especially when I opened the door for that to happen)?

She's made it clear that she wants to salvage our relationship and is willing to do whatever it takes without compromise. I have the added bonus in this relationship with being pretty close with her sister and brother-in-law who are both living in the US right now. She confessed what happened to her sister, and her sister of course ripped her a new one. But they both believe she's really genuine in her remorse, and it seems pretty obvious to me that she is.

Do I give the girl another chance, or cut her loose? Well, I know I'm the only one who can make that decision. But I'm curious what others would do, given the circumstances.

Guys please have a little respect for the OP and try and remain on topic. While the "sex talk" isn't totally off-topic please remember he's here for help and sifting through off-topic replies is annoying.

To the OP, I've bolded the parts that really caught my eye (and left the whole thing to remind people of your update)

I have to admit when I read that her siblings are in the US as well, I immediately thought that she was using you... Not necessarily that she doesn't love you in some way but that if you told her that moving to the US was off then she wouldn't appreciate that much at all. She might pretend she didn't care if you told her you'd move back to China, but she could simply be thinking she had more time to convince you that the US is better.

My problem with her reaction to your ultimatum is that before your email, she wasn't okay with giving up clubbing. It was only when you said month and a half that she was like "oh yeah, s'pose that's okay".

The majority of what you've written relies on you knowing her well. You said that you thought you did, but she cheated after FIVE months of being apart, with less than 2 months left till you're together again. I don't want to upset you too badly but it's important to know she had LOTS of times to think about you (and you're probably trying not to think about it too much) & not knowing her situation exactly (i.e. how it occurred) she had the following times to think about you:

1. Kissing someone else WITH A RING ON HER FINGER!

2. The drive back to their "sex location" (kissing another guy, holding another guys hand).

3. The process of stripping for both of them (seeing another guy naked for the first time in ages)

4. The foreplay (however short she should have thought about you and the differences between you and this guy SEVERAL times)

5. The actual act

I honestly TRULY don't believe sleeping with someone else is a "mistake". It takes conscious decision, and conscious effort to block you from her mind. She might have been remorseful later but that could have been because her friends could have told you, or because she suddenly though "damn, there goes my ticket to the US".

You seem to believe that her simply saying that she doesn't want anyone else or not taking your offer to "see other people" as proof that she doesn't want to be with someone else. The thing is, she's already proved that she DOES want other people, that waiting for you wasn't good enough, that she wanted sex and you weren't there so she'd just be with someone else.

Her family sticking up for her and telling you that she's really sorry... I don't know about this. She probably did, and it's good her sister ripped her a new one but that shouldn't affect your decision at all. Yes she's sorry, but it HAPPENED. It shows really weak character. Would her family think less of you for not taking her back? If they would then that shows where their priorities are, getting their sister to the US, and then probably eventually their parents, and then their parents can petition for them to stay (if they don't already have greencards). My greencard (when I get it ) won't be my "gateway to the US", it's my ability to remain here with my husband... See her family COULD (not saying they do) have a vested interest in your relationship so their opinion is biased.

My other issue with that, is why sex? Why if you talk all the time, and if skype wasn't enough, didn't she tell you that she needed to see you online more. That she was feeling lonely. If she was feeling vulnerable why sleep with someone else? Why not hang out with her friends more? Get more people time? I honestly don't get it. Why wasn't your affection enough? I can't help but think she doesn't love you the way she should love someone she's marrying, otherwise your love, and knowing she would be with you in less than 2 months should have been enough. Being apart for 5 months would be nothing. Damn I was counting down the months I was apart from my bf/fiance. We were apart for just over 9 months and I never thought about cheating on him. I was excited about being with him soon. Excited about spending time with him.

Honestly it does appear that she's too young and immature for a committed relationship. She might be upset right now and like I said before she might be sad and lonely, but she's already proved what she does when she's feeling lonely (which if being on skype is so easy then why not that?)

Can you honestly see yourself being okay with this if you need to go somewhere for an extended period? Can you honestly see yourself being as loving and attentive like nothing ever happened? That's an important thing. If you chose to forgive her you need to "get over it". You need to never bring it up again and pretend like it never happened... and I'll be honest by saying I couldn't do it. If she came up with a "new move" in bed i'd be thinking "where'd you learn that?", or if she got pregnant i'd immediately want a paternity test because she's already proven herself to be untrustworthy. What if you guys have an argument? Is that one of the times she's be feeling "vulnerable"? The trust is obviously gone. You thought you knew her and you didn't. She's been keeping this from you. Her exes said she never cheated, she's already proved that if they weren't around all the time, she would have.

There is absolutely no excuse for cheating on someone. Absolutely none. If you drink to a stage where it happens then it's something you wanted to do sober but never had the guts (or never acknowledged). Your fiancee sounds sorry it happened, but it doesn't change that she did it. It doesn't change that it DID happen and that on that day/night you didn't matter to her.

Honestly, as much as it sucks and how much it hurts, I would end the relationship. The trust is gone, an I'm not sure there's really any way to earn that trust back, let alone delete this character flaw from her. I'm sorry.

Good luck with your decision.

Edited February 7, 2010 by Vanessa&Tony

[VanessaTony 3,567]

The clubbing is cultural, the willingness to give it up is there now and the response to 'seeing other people' was nearly instantaneous.

Contrary to everyone here, I think it sounds that she's making the right noises and her remorse is genuine. She needs to be patient with you, allow you to ask any questions or talk about it when you're ready and deal with the guilt that she'll be reminded of every single time you raise it. If you think she's made of tough enough material to cope with that, then give her a chance to make her wrong right by you.

The willingness to give up the clubbing should have been INSTANTANEOUS! If I cheated on someone I would be like "no, i'm not going there again". Not because I think I'd cheat again, but because I'd be filled with guilt every time and because it's the "scene of the crime".

Unfortunately she made her bed, and now she can lie in it. Remorse is one thing but she DID it. She didn't care about him, she cheated on him and now her greencard is at risk she's "remorseful".

Obviously everyone reacts differently to their SO cheating, but cheating is cheating. it's not a mistake, it's a decision. She made her decision that sex was more important than her relationship.

[Donna A 4]

she can talk to u on skype everynight to prove she is at home....can she prove she didnt take his number after fvcking him to get in touch with him again? u cant watch her on skype 24/7 to make sure she is not cheating again.

remember, ur the one who is going to be financially responsible for her for the next 10 years of her life once you marry and do the adjustment of status. are you sure you wanna do that with a cheat?

u have alot more to loose then she does.

Edited February 7, 2010 by Donna A

[sleepy in Seattle 3]

when my ex cheated me, i did not give him a second chance. i can forgive but not forget. if he did it once, he can do it again. his infidelity is a sign of falling out love to me. if he loves me, he will respect me and will not hurt me in anyway. damage is already done and can never be undone. balance your mind and heart and not just follow your heart. feelings can deceive you. forgiving is a virtue but being blind is stupidity. true love waits for tomorrow. i would rather be broken now than later so i can start moving on to the next chapter of my tiny life. someone deserves your love who will be with you thru thick and thin.

You know the funny thing is is I can't even think of even kissing another man at all. I believe that if the person is cheating then they couldn't be very serious at all. I would not ever cheat on my fiance, I wouldn't even think of it. nor would my Greg. I agree with you about forgiving, but not forgetting. I am glad that I have a pretty darn strong relationship with Greg, I wouldn't go through all of this trouble if I didn't believe in our love for one another.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

she can talk to u on skype everynight to prove she is at home....can she prove she didnt take his number after fvcking him to get in touch with him again? u cant watch her on skype 24/7 to make sure she is not cheating again.

remember, ur the one who is going to be financially responsible for her for the next 10 years of her life once you marry and do the adjustment of status. are you sure you wanna do that with a cheat?

u have alot more to loose then she does.

Very good point. She can proove it at night, but it doesn't stop her doing it during the day. Who knows, she might never cheat again having realised there are consequences to her actions, but honestly she should have known that already. It was a very immature and irresponsible thing to do.

You deserve better, and I can see this would hurt you and break your heart a little more each day if you were to have to look at her. Any time she looks guilty you'll be reminded of that day you found out and you'll wonder. Or you'll try NOT to mistrust her and ignore the little signs here and there in your vain attempt to try and trust her again. It's just a vicious cycle.

[sleepy in Seattle 3]

The willingness to give up the clubbing should have been INSTANTANEOUS! If I cheated on someone I would be like "no, i'm not going there again". Not because I think I'd cheat again, but because I'd be filled with guilt every time and because it's the "scene of the crime".

Unfortunately she made her bed, and now she can lie in it. Remorse is one thing but she DID it. She didn't care about him, she cheated on him and now her greencard is at risk she's "remorseful".

Obviously everyone reacts differently to their SO cheating, but cheating is cheating. it's not a mistake, it's a decision. She made her decision that sex was more important than her relationship.

I believe that if you truly love somebody then you would never cheat, the thought would never enter your mind anyone's mind for that matter. Just not right when people cheat, I gave up a lot of things, like having a life period, I don't go out only to work or doctors/gorcery shopping/ most of the time my fiance spend as much time e-mailing or on the phone with each other, where there is love there is always away. but cheating isn't even an option, just disgusting when people are like that.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I have been apart from my fiance for about 5 months. We've been together for 2 years, and both lived in her native country originally. We were with each other every day and had an amazing relationship with a fantastic connection. Unfortunately, I had to return to the US for a plethora of reasons. I wanted her to come with me, but of course we've been forced to wait because of the K1 visa process.

We've been getting along well using Skype, emailing every day and talking on the phone. But a few weeks ago, I'd noticed something changed. She started to seem more distant, and I immediately knew something was wrong. I confronted her about it, and she confessed to me that she'd met a guy at a nightclub, and she was feeling alone and emotionally vulnerable. She slept with him.

Damn, the agony. But she told me she felt terrible about it and that she really loved me, and was angry with herself for having allowed it to happen. My take?

Well, 5 months is a long time. But somehow I've managed to keep faithful to her, so I can't help but feel really upset about this. However, I also know that we're all human, and it's tough for me just to write her off because of it, especially considering she told me the truth when she could have kept it a secret.

Against my better judgment, I forgave her and told her I still love her, and that if she'll have me as her husband, I still want her to be my wife. But I told her I don't feel comfortable with her going to nightclubs, because I think it's tough to avoid the temptation in that kind of environment when you're feeling vulnerable. She didn't like this, because she enjoys going out and dancing with her friends. I understand that, and I don't want to keep her from enjoying the company of her friends. But now everytime she goes out, I feel so anxious about it that I can hardly sleep.

Does this mean it's time to say good-bye? Am I being unreasonable by telling her I'm not comfortable with her going to clubs? Should I just suck it up and try to trust her again?

We've only got about a month and a half left of waiting ... so I'm really at a loss as to what to do. I love her, and I know that she loves me. But is she too lacking in maturity and self-control to build a happy marriage together? I don't want to be completely blind here ... I am in love with the girl.

Some third party opinions are much appreciated. Thanks!

Good-bye

[Kathryn41 3,205]

While it is true that many times when someone will cheat once while in a committed relationship they will cheat again, there is also the chance that this experience was the eye-opener she needed to realize what was really important to her. She sounds like she is young. Many of us make poor decisions when we are young that we later regret. We learn from our mistakes and don't make them again.

Very good friends of mine have what I would call a near perfect marriage. His wife is a wonderful woman, loved and respected by many. He is incredibly committed to her, always concerned about her well-being and literally dotes on her. She also dotes on him and I could see neither of them ever doing anything to hurt each other. It was a surprise that I learned that early in their marriage he had cheated on her. They were both very open about the experience because it had nearly torn them apart. She was devastated by his affair and left him. He realized at that time just how important she was to him and set to winning back both her and her trust. It took time but he was able to convince him he totally regretted the cheating, that it meant nothing and she meant everything. He proceeded to prove to her he could be trusted absolutely - and she was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. He has never cheated again and she says that this rift actually ended up making their marriage stronger than it was before because they both knew without doubt the value of their marriage and of each other. They had been married over 30 years when I heard this story - and it will be another 10 years now. They are still together, still adore each other, and still have no regrets for giving their marriage another chance.

I would say that your fiance made a mistake, but that her remorse sounds real. Personally, I think you owe it to yourself and to her to give her a chance to prove to you that you can love her and trust her again. People do learn from their mistakes and they can become stronger because of them. There is no guarantee that she will not falter again - but from what you say of her character and her experience, I think she may well turn into one of those who proves the 'once a cheater always a cheater' saying wrong.

Good luck to you. If you need more time, you could decide to defer the K-1 for another year. It would mean letting this opportunity go by and re-applying, but it may give both of you the breathing room to decide if this really is going to work or not.

Edited February 8, 2010 by Kathryn41