work or hobby?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Ok,here's an interesting theory I have for you all.

Once me and my fiancee are married and settled we want to start our own business which will be a tattooshop/custombikeshop.

Now,since I will have to wait for my EAD I was wondering if we could put the business in my wife's name at first so theoretically she would be the one getting paid for the work

I would be doing and I would be doing the work only for a hobby.Does anyone know if that would fly legally???

It would sure make things a lot easier......

Here is it how it works, legally. You open the business and either incorporate or do it as a sole proprietorship in your wifes name "Debbie Jones dba Tattoos and bikes" Whatever. All money made is paid to "Tattoos and bikes" by the customers. All money made is deposited to "Tattoos and Bikes" bank account. (you can be a joint holder of this account, but do not take any moeny directly from the account to you, unless it is "re-imbursement" for out of pocket expenses) The "Tattoos and Bikes" bank account deposits earnings (profits) into your personal (joint) account by a check made out to Debbie Jones. No money is ever paid directly to you. You "volunteer" until your green card is received. Anyone is allowed to volunteer at any business.

Do you do tattoos while we wait?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Ok,here's an interesting theory I have for you all.

Once me and my fiancee are married and settled we want to start our own business which will be a tattooshop/custombikeshop.

Now,since I will have to wait for my EAD I was wondering if we could put the business in my wife's name at first so theoretically she would be the one getting paid for the work

I would be doing and I would be doing the work only for a hobby.Does anyone know if that would fly legally???

It would sure make things a lot easier......

Here is it how it works, legally. You open the business and either incorporate or do it as a sole proprietorship in your wifes name "Debbie Jones dba Tattoos and bikes" Whatever. All money made is paid to "Tattoos and bikes" by the customers. All money made is deposited to "Tattoos and Bikes" bank account. (you can be a joint holder of this account, but do not take any moeny directly from the account to you, unless it is "re-imbursement" for out of pocket expenses) The "Tattoos and Bikes" bank account deposits earnings (profits) into your personal (joint) account by a check made out to Debbie Jones. No money is ever paid directly to you. You "volunteer" until your green card is received. Anyone is allowed to volunteer at any business.

Do you do tattoos while we wait?

Important. I am not suggesting anyhting illegal, directly or indirectly which would be against the VJ TOS. This is legal and straight forward. You do not have a job, you do not have income in this scenario. Your wife does, and she is legally allowed to work. Of course she is legally allowed to share her earnings with you, her husband, and you are legally allowed to volunteer.

Be very careful to keep all your books and records legally recorded so there is no confusion and it is probably best not to even reimburse you for expenses if it can be avoided. Write up some sort of volunteer agreement. The business CAN provide uniforms and some marginal benefits for volunteers. Maybe a choice parking place. LOL

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

8 CFR § 274a defines an employee as "an individual who provides services or labor for an employer for wages or other remuneration". As long as your not receiving any sort of compensation for your work, then you might be ok. However, if you're living in a community property state, then her income might be considered to be your income, which would mean that you were being paid indirectly for your work.

It's a gray area. You might want to consult with an attorney. Better yet, why not prepare to start your business while waiting for the EAD. It generally only takes a couple of months to get the EAD. Most people need more time than that to launch a new business.

The community property thing does not apply. If it did any K-1 in any community property state would be illegal because their spouse signs an affidavit to support them with their income. Once the money is earned and deposited in a personal account, it can be shared freely by the couple.

He can legally volunteer. My wife volunteered at a hospital for a while. They had "contract" of sorts by which she agreed to work without pay, this is necessary to comply with wage and hour laws and will vary by state. Legalzoom.com may have something, even the local "Staples" stores carry some generic agreements.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

If the immigrant without a SSN or permission to work from DHS plants and grows veggies at home and trades such for services and other things is that considered "working"?

It does not fall under being paid wages, no.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

If the immigrant without a SSN or permission to work from DHS plants and grows veggies at home and trades such for services and other things is that considered "working"?

That would count as "other remuneration", so yes - you would be employed and need an EAD. The only exception provided in section 274a is for casual domestic workers "who provide domestic service in a private home that is sporadic, irregular or intermittent".

Only if each "trade" could be documented and quantified. Not likely anyone would go to that trouble, otherwise it is bartering. Certainly you would not suggest an immigrant would need an EAD to trim his neighbors hedges in exchange for the neighbor mowing his lawn! And that isn't the question. The question is, "Can an immigrant without an EAD or Green Card volunteer in a business?" The answer is "yes".

[CA dreamer 3]

go ahead man and work before ead:) u will draw tattoos so u r not gonna work exposed in the street,take the customer in the back area behind the curtains and draw it.just keep your usc partner with you administrating the shop,good luck.

[Jon&Lindsey 0]

You "volunteer" until your green card is received. Anyone is allowed to volunteer at any business.

I thought you could only volunteer for a truly volunteer, non-profit organization, not a position in a business that would usually be paid? I can find references to this being true for other visa types (eg F1), as volunteering where someone would normally be paid disadvantages Americans looking for work, whereas volunteering for a non-profit has no effect on Americans' jobs. If I were the OP, I would wait until EAD, but then maybe I am just paranoid

[Otto 83]

Anyone is allowed to volunteer at any business.

However - volunteering for a position that would otherwise be a paid position may be viewed in a 'poor light'...

Best to simply get the EAD - doesn't take that long, and not fool around..

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

8 CFR § 274a defines an employee as "an individual who provides services or labor for an employer for wages or other remuneration". As long as your not receiving any sort of compensation for your work, then you might be ok. However, if you're living in a community property state, then her income might be considered to be your income, which would mean that you were being paid indirectly for your work.

It's a gray area. You might want to consult with an attorney. Better yet, why not prepare to start your business while waiting for the EAD. It generally only takes a couple of months to get the EAD. Most people need more time than that to launch a new business.

The community property thing does not apply. If it did any K-1 in any community property state would be illegal because their spouse signs an affidavit to support them with their income. Once the money is earned and deposited in a personal account, it can be shared freely by the couple.

He can legally volunteer. My wife volunteered at a hospital for a while. They had "contract" of sorts by which she agreed to work without pay, this is necessary to comply with wage and hour laws and will vary by state. Legalzoom.com may have something, even the local "Staples" stores carry some generic agreements.

In the scenario you're talking about, the US citizen spouse is doing the work, and is not profiting from the labor of her foreign spouse. He's working and she's getting paid for it. Sounds like a gray area to me.

Only if each "trade" could be documented and quantified. Not likely anyone would go to that trouble, otherwise it is bartering. Certainly you would not suggest an immigrant would need an EAD to trim his neighbors hedges in exchange for the neighbor mowing his lawn! And that isn't the question. The question is, "Can an immigrant without an EAD or Green Card volunteer in a business?" The answer is "yes".

That's not what 8 CFR § 274a says. It says "wages or other remuneration", which would certainly include bartering labor for any sort of compensation. The question is whether he is receiving any sort of compensation at all for his labor. If yes, then he's employed. If not, then he's a volunteer. Volunteering for a business that doesn't provide any compensation to the volunteer is one thing, but if his wife is being directly compensated for his work then I think USCIS might look differently at it.

[KikuyuLove 0]

In our case, since I've been in business on my own for about 15 years, I am taking the "unpaid internship" approach for my VSO if anyone asks. (Craigslist is full of it [i mean them]). She wants to do something in the business but frankly has a lot to learn. I plan to take her on shoots and show her the ropes while we await the employment paperwork to see if it really is her "cup of coffee". But long and short, I suggest that you work on the planning of your business and its financing especially in these times before rushing into bending the rules. Echoing the previous posts, its a short period to wait for an all clear when there is so much to plan out. Plans "A"-"E" and beyond should be well thought through since we are being held to a higher standard for marriage and support than the average USC-USC marriage would dream of.

[reeses16 8]

Seems like it could be done legally (i.e. everything in your spouses name- add your name after the permit) , but why do it at all unless you yourself are a 100% sure. I doubt you would make money in the 3 months you would wait for your work permit or that you would think it was worth it if anyone from USCIS decided to make it an issue.

[payxibka 10,044]

Ok,here's an interesting theory I have for you all.

Once me and my fiancee are married and settled we want to start our own business which will be a tattooshop/custombikeshop.

Now,since I will have to wait for my EAD I was wondering if we could put the business in my wife's name at first so theoretically she would be the one getting paid for the work

I would be doing and I would be doing the work only for a hobby.Does anyone know if that would fly legally???

It would sure make things a lot easier......

Post does not have anything to do with K-1 visa process... moving

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

8 CFR § 274a defines an employee as "an individual who provides services or labor for an employer for wages or other remuneration". As long as your not receiving any sort of compensation for your work, then you might be ok. However, if you're living in a community property state, then her income might be considered to be your income, which would mean that you were being paid indirectly for your work.

It's a gray area. You might want to consult with an attorney. Better yet, why not prepare to start your business while waiting for the EAD. It generally only takes a couple of months to get the EAD. Most people need more time than that to launch a new business.

The community property thing does not apply. If it did any K-1 in any community property state would be illegal because their spouse signs an affidavit to support them with their income. Once the money is earned and deposited in a personal account, it can be shared freely by the couple.

He can legally volunteer. My wife volunteered at a hospital for a while. They had "contract" of sorts by which she agreed to work without pay, this is necessary to comply with wage and hour laws and will vary by state. Legalzoom.com may have something, even the local "Staples" stores carry some generic agreements.

In the scenario you're talking about, the US citizen spouse is doing the work, and is not profiting from the labor of her foreign spouse. He's working and she's getting paid for it. Sounds like a gray area to me.

Only if each "trade" could be documented and quantified. Not likely anyone would go to that trouble, otherwise it is bartering. Certainly you would not suggest an immigrant would need an EAD to trim his neighbors hedges in exchange for the neighbor mowing his lawn! And that isn't the question. The question is, "Can an immigrant without an EAD or Green Card volunteer in a business?" The answer is "yes".

That's not what 8 CFR § 274a says. It says "wages or other remuneration", which would certainly include bartering labor for any sort of compensation. The question is whether he is receiving any sort of compensation at all for his labor. If yes, then he's employed. If not, then he's a volunteer. Volunteering for a business that doesn't provide any compensation to the volunteer is one thing, but if his wife is being directly compensated for his work then I think USCIS might look differently at it.

Jim, you are quoting from IRS regulations. Tax code. The IRS will gladly collect taxes from illegal immigrants working in the USA. You are also confusing "work", "earnings" and "employment". A K-1 is not authorized to be "employed" prior to an EAD or Green Card. "Working" as a volunteer is not being employed. Growing vegetables and trading them to your neighbor for eggs is not being "employed" though it could be (if someone wanted to bother with it) be considered taxable earnings.

Having a garage sale is not being employed. It is work.

People can volunteer for Profit and non-profit organizations. Non-profits employ paid employees and volunteers. Profit corporations employ paid employees and volunteers (as one poster mentioned, the current "buzzword" is "unpaid intern"). Volunteers "work", volunteers are not "employed". Businesses, all businesses, profit from the work of volunteers. Non-profits put the profit back into the "cause" (IRS regulations require "non Profit" orgaanizations to make a profit and put it back in their cause, if they do not they lose their tax exempt status) Profit organizations give it to an individual or many individuals (stock holders)

It is perfectly and completely legal for anyone, EAD, Green Card or not, citizen or not, to volunteer their services in any business. As a volunteer, HE receives NO compensation for his labor. Period. His wife, a US citizen, can legally receive compensation for her work, his work or anyone else that works for the business, that is the purpose of owning a business...making money from your work and that of others. His wife can legally deposit this money, earnings from HER business, into a jointly held personal account, such as the account the USCIS suggests you have to use as evidence of a bona fide relationship. They cannot say you should have a joint account and then say the foreign spouse cannot have access to the money because his US spouse owns her own business. This is getting preposterous.

And I am not suggesting he avoid getting an EAD, no. By all means, get one. But in the meantime he can volunteer anywhere for anyone doing anything

[Bikerdude 0]

Allright folks,let's keep this a happy and healthy discussion.First of all,I'm very happy with all the replies I got sofar.I never said we had the intention to do it this way,I was just wondering if it

was legally possible.Of course I want to wait for my EAD if it doesn't take all that long and as for financing the business we will both bring in money so that won't be an issue.It could be interesting though for people who would like to start a small business from their home awaiting the EAD/GC to make a few bucks to get through the first few months.I mean,let's face it,the whole process of immigration is quite costly......

Further more,I was pleasantly surprised this topic made it to "most popular" (doesn't buy me bread,but still kinda cool B)

[Cuchita 1]

So what about this?:

Aliens Work Authorized Without Specific DHS Authorization

The following sections list nonimmigrants, by alien class of admission codes, who are authorized to work in the U.S. without specific authorization from DHS. The person’s I-94 will not have the DHS employment authorization stamp and the alien will generally not have an EAD.

NOTE: Although aliens listed under a class of admission in RM 00203.500C.1. of this section are work authorized without specific DHS authorization, employers may still ask for an EAD before the alien can start working.

For those with an asterisk (*), the principal alien, spouse, and child all have the same classification code. In some instances, both the husband and wife are both principal aliens when the classification is E-1, E-2. Accept their statements that both are principals.

For those with a double asterisk (**) (non-immigrant E-1, E-2, and L-2 classifications), the spouse is also authorized to work without specific DHS authorization. When the E-1, E-2, or L-2 spouse applies for an SSN card and does not submit an EAD as evidence of employment authorization, he/she must submit, in addition to evidence of immigration status, evidence of a marital relationship to the principal E-1, E-2, or L-1 alien. The evidence of marital relationship between the applicant and the principal E-1, E-2, or L-1 alien is a marriage document. The marriage document must indicate the marriage occurred, either: 1) prior to admission to the U.S. as an E-1, E-2, or L-2 non-immigrant; or 2) prior to extension or change of status to an E-1, E-2 or L-2 non-immigrant.

NOTE: Ask the alien whether he/she is the principal alien who is authorized to work or the spouse, child or other dependent of the principal alien and see RM 00203.500C.1., RM 00203.500C.2., and RM 00203.500C.3. when the alien is the spouse (other than an E-1, E-2 or L-2 spouse) or child.

Class of Admission

Description

A-1*

Ambassador, public minister, career diplomat or consular officer

A-2*

Other foreign government official or employee

A-3*

Attendant, servant, or personal employee of principal A-1, or A-2

E-1*

Treaty trader (principal)

E-1**

Spouse of principal E-1

When an EAD card is issued in these situations to an E-1 spouse, the I-766 shows “A-17” under Category and the I-688B shows “274a.12(A)(17)” under Provision of Law.

If an EAD is not submitted, applicant must submit a marriage document as evidence that he/she is spouse of the principal E-1 alien

E-2*

Treaty investor (principal)

E-2**

Spouse of principal E-2

When an EAD card is issued in these situations to an E-2 spouse, the I-766 shows “A-17” under Category and the I-688B shows “274a.12 (A)(17)” under Provision of Law.

If an EAD is not submitted, applicant must submit a marriage document as evidence that he/she is spouse of the principal E-2 alien

E-3*

Treaty trader in a specialty occupation

F-1

Academic student - for on-campus employment, and DSO authorized curricular practical training. (See RM 00203.470 for the proof required)

F-3

Canadian or Mexican national academic student who commutes to school in the U.S. – for DSO authorized curricular practical training (see RM 00203.470C.5.a.)

G-1*

Resident representative of recognized foreign member government to an international organization

G-2*

Other temporary representative of recognized foreign member government to an international organization

G-3*

Representative of unrecognized or nonmember foreign government to an international organization

G-4*

Representative of international organization (officer or employee)

G-5*

Attendant, servant, or personal employee of principal G-1, G-2, G-3, or G-4

H-1B

Worker in a specialty occupation

H-1B1

Temporary worker in a specialty occupation

H-1C

Registered nurse

H-2A

Agricultural worker

H-2B

Non-agrarian seasonal worker

H-2R

Returning H-2B worker (worker was previously admitted as H-2B, left the U.S. temporarily and is returning to the U.S.

H-3

Trainee

I*

Foreign information media representative

J-1

Exchange visitor (pursuant to an approved program) (See RM 00203.480) An exchange visitor whose DS-2019 shows the category as “international visitor” or “student” in item 4 of the form must provide a letter from the program sponsor as evidence of authority to work. Otherwise, presume the J-1 is authorized to work as part of the exchange program.

K-1

Fiancé(e) of U.S. citizen THIS!!!!

L-1

Intracompany transferee

L-1A

Intracompany Transferee Managers and Executives

L-1B

Intracompany Transferee Specialized Knowledge

L-2**

Spouse of an intracompany transferee

When an EAD card is issued to an L-2 spouse, the I-766 shows “A-18” under Category and the I-688B shows “274a.12 (A)(18)” under Provision of Law.

If an EAD is not submitted, applicant must submit a marriage document as evidence that he/she is spouse of the L-1 alien

NATO-1 through 6*

NATO officer, representative, or personnel

NATO-7*

Attendant, servant, of personal employee of principal NATO-1 through 6

O-1

Alien with extraordinary ability in sciences, arts, education, business or athletics

O-2

Alien accompanying O-1

P-1

Internationally recognized athlete or entertainer in an internationally recognized group

P-2

Artist or entertainer in an exchange program

P-3

Artist or entertainer in a culturally unique program

Q-1

Cultural exchange visitor

Q-2

Irish Peace Process Cultural and Training Program Visitor

R-1

Religious worker with a nonprofit religious organization

TC

Professional business person, United States-Canada Free Trade Act (FTA)

TN

Professional business person from Canada or Mexico, North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA)

TN-1

Professional business person from Canada, North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA)

TN-2

Professional business person from Mexico, North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA)

Refugee

Alien admitted pursuant to section 207 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA)

The I-766 shows “A-3” under Category; the I-688B shows “274a.12 (A)(3)” under Provision of Law.

Asylee

Asylee under 208 of the INA

The I-766 shows “A-5” under Category; the I-688B shows “274a.12 (A)(5)” under Provision of Law